Stokes

[Dashing Bob S]

Thought Stokes was brilliant in the second half against Celtic. Not so good against the Huns.

[monktonharp]

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Stokes is a smarter player than Murray who runs about and sometimes gets lucky. Stokes drops deep to create for others especially on the left when he opened up space for Barker brilliantly.

Stokesey played in 2 brilliant balls over their defence yesterday in the first half. all it needed was a touch from our main strikers and it was in. he did similar in the second. he was not a main striker, playing just behind them and sometimes back to midfield and I cant fault him for his work.

[monktonharp]

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With 2 speedy wingers we need speedy strikers making runs into the box. Griffiths and Cummings scored a lot if tap ins.

You see that a lot in Europe and the EPL. Is it just that our strikers can't keep up?

our speedy strikers failed to connect with 2 speedy crosses in the first half, delivered by Stokes which have put us on easy street

[madhatter]

I'd be interested to find out what everyone would be saying about Stokes if his performance in the cup final hadn't happened?

He deserves some leniency because of that and he deserves many fans' gratitude for finally ending the 1902 rubbish. However, anybody saying he was one of our best players against Rangers...that's not leniency that is obsession. He had a very mediocre game and virtually disappeared in the 2nd half. I can name at least 5 players who had better games: Stevenson, McGregor,McGeouch,Boyle,Barker.

Put it this way, look at the marked increase in Boyle's ability. He is arguably one of our first picks now.

I've seen no improvement to Stokes and again he deserves some leniency but let's not say "he was one of our best performers" when he wasn't. On paper Stokes is our best player in terms of his pedigree and previous glimpses of skill. On the pitch, how often does he look like our best player? How many times has he got man of the match?

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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I'd be interested to find out what everyone would be saying about Stokes if his performance in the cup final hadn't happened?

He deserves some leniency because of that and he deserves many fans' gratitude for finally ending the 1902 rubbish. However, anybody saying he was one of our best players against Rangers...that's not leniency that is obsession. He had a very mediocre game and virtually disappeared in the 2nd half. I can name at least 5 players who had better games: Stevenson, McGregor,McGeouch,Boyle,Barker.

Put it this way, look at the marked increase in Boyle's ability. He is arguably one of our first picks now.

I've seen no improvement to Stokes and again he deserves some leniency but let's not say "he was one of our best performers" when he wasn't. On paper Stokes is our best player in terms of his pedigree and previous glimpses of skill. On the pitch, how often does he look like our best player? How many times has he got man of the match?

See that thing that was the pinnacle of your Hibs career - we’re gonna forget about that and judge you on a crappy night in Inverness instead...

[Betty Boop]

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Finding it harder and harder to justify his position in the team.

You can see why Tony Mowbray got rid.

[Phil MaGlass]

I thought Stokes was excellent, some of his touches,especially when surrounded by multiple players was immense, some folk on here seem to have a need of bringing our players down regularly, I have done it myself on occasion when warranted but on here it seems a few need to always complain about the same players, Lewis and now it seems Stokesy.

[Albanian Hibs]

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Agree with the posters who're saying it looks like Murray is out his depth in this league.

😂 aye right

[Big_Franck]

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Sunday??

On Sunday I thought he played well for the last 20 minutes or so. When Shaw came on and he moved wide left he did better. He was poor for the first 70 minutes though IMO.

For someone who is probably our highest earner I'd be expecting more than 15/20 minute glimpses of ability every 3/4 weeks.

[madhatter]

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See that thing that was the pinnacle of your Hibs career - we’re gonna forget about that and judge you on a crappy night in Inverness instead...

Was that really my message? Think it was more "we'll forget nth number of poor games for us because you had 1 sensational one."

[basehibby]

I think some of the criticism on here is way OTT - however I do think we could see a bit more coming from Stokesy. On 210516 he was simply unplayable - World Class! I'm not expecting that sort of performance every week but sometimes would be good.

He is a class player and brings great guile, touch and vision to the table - but when you know what he's really capable of it can be a wee bit frustrating watching him - hope he keeps his head down and we see some more 21/05 performances before the season is out.

[Firestarter]

This place is mental.

[Firestarter]

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On Sunday I thought he played well for the last 20 minutes or so. When Shaw came on and he moved wide left he did better. He was poor for the first 70 minutes though IMO.

For someone who is probably our highest earner I'd be expecting more than 15/20 minute glimpses of ability every 3/4 weeks.

Was that the 20 mins that had us come back from 2 down to almost beat the unbeaten champions?

Tell me what you expect from him when the service is so poor? We play with wingers who's final ball is shocking st times and no creatice midfielder. If Stokes had a zemmama or boozy behind him then he would be a goal scorer, right now we don't have that final ball so Stokes finds himself creating more.

[Hiber-nation]

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Was that the 20 mins that had us come back from 2 down to almost beat the unbeaten champions?

Tell me what you expect from him when the service is so poor? We play with wingers who's final ball is shocking st times and no creatice midfielder. If Stokes had a zemmama or boozy behind him then he would be a goal scorer, right now we don't have that final ball so Stokes finds himself creating more.

He's underperforming. We were behind the dugout at Firrhill and I've never seen a manager so frustrated with a player as Lennon was with Stokes. Murray wasn't far behind mind you!

[BSEJVT]

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He's underperforming. We were behind the dugout at Firrhill and I've never seen a manager so frustrated with a player as Lennon was with Stokes. Murray wasn't far behind mind you!

Not sure he is J.

I think Stokes is now performing at a better level than his last spell with us (cup final excepted).

I don't think he will hit the previous heights of his cup final performance or performances under Lennon at Celtic.

He simply cannot play as a lone striker and I doubt he ever could at any point in his career.

He has played very little football in the last 3 or 4 years and his lifestyle choices over the years will increasingly impact upon him (see Deek & GOC as examples) and frankly I expect him to get worse not better.

I expect him to play deeper (no 10 role) more often than before and with a couple of intelligent, mobile well rounded centre forwards in front of him he will create plenty direct chances with threaded passes

I think the role he is being asked to fulfil is a role missing from the current team (Swanson maybe) and there is potential value in having him there.

I think the current team is imbalanced in that for all their attributes I don't see McGeouch, McGinn or Bartley creating much through threaded passes through the defence , so we have a choice of playing it wide or playing balls into the channels to let someone chase.

Personally if we could get Swanson fit I would play him in the role I have outlined for Stokes and have Stokes up front as part of pair.

My only reservation on this is that Stokes days of outpacing anyone are long gone.

I think folks expectations of him will need to shift as his role appears to have or some are in for a very unhappy few years with him.

I bet Lewis Stevenson & Paul Hanlon are glad to have him around to share some of the flak!

BTW to clarify an earlier post I made on Murray.

Murray has exceeded my expectations greatly and I am hopeful Lennon can elicit from him the same types of improvements he has with Boyle, but some of his runs are brutal and he is caught offside far too often.

My current impression of him is that he is good when forced to act instinctively but given the time to think he is often found wanting.

Hopfully he can kick on, its still early days.

[Firestarter]

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He's underperforming. We were behind the dugout at Firrhill and I've never seen a manager so frustrated with a player as Lennon was with Stokes. Murray wasn't far behind mind you!

I don't think he's under peforming at all. He gets piss poor service and is creating chances and space for others.

[Phil MaGlass]

The lone striker bit really anmoys me, we have great fire power, use them ffs.

[soproni1]

He isn't producing what he is capable of, which is why he is getting stick and deservedly so IMO. A couple of nice touches a game and an assist or penalty here and there isn't enough. A much more limited player (Murray) is becoming a more useful asset, I was always a fan of him playing off the left but Barker has nudged him out of that role now. I'd like to see Lennon drop him and see if we can get a reaction i.e. an uptick in performance.

[BarneyHibby]

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I'd be interested to find out what everyone would be saying about Stokes if his performance in the cup final hadn't happened?

He deserves some leniency because of that and he deserves many fans' gratitude for finally ending the 1902 rubbish. However, anybody saying he was one of our best players against Rangers...that's not leniency that is obsession. He had a very mediocre game and virtually disappeared in the 2nd half. I can name at least 5 players who had better games: Stevenson, McGregor,McGeouch,Boyle,Barker.

I think Stoksey been excellent in first half. He had a few nice touches. In the second he played very average. He tried his best but did not succeed. I also rate Barker & Squirrel very highly. Both have been outstanding in the second half.

[Big_Franck]

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Was that the 20 mins that had us come back from 2 down to almost beat the unbeaten champions?

Tell me what you expect from him when the service is so poor? We play with wingers who's final ball is shocking st times and no creatice midfielder. If Stokes had a zemmama or boozy behind him then he would be a goal scorer, right now we don't have that final ball so Stokes finds himself creating more.

Yep, those 20 minutes. I'd expect more than a decent 20 minute spell every 3/4 games (being generous) from our main striker and likely highest earner though.

Apart from that 20 minute spell against Celtc he has done very little in our last 4 games. Last night he was ineffective against a shan Rangers defence, Partick away he was brutal and I wasn't at the Hamilton game but apparently he wasn't great there either. We need more from him in my opinion.

[Hiber-nation]

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Not sure he is J.

I think Stokes is now performing at a better level than his last spell with us (cup final excepted).

I don't think he will hit the previous heights of his cup final performance or performances under Lennon at Celtic.

He simply cannot play as a lone striker and I doubt he ever could at any point in his career.

He has played very little football in the last 3 or 4 years and his lifestyle choices over the years will increasingly impact upon him (see Deek & GOC as examples) and frankly I expect him to get worse not better.

I expect him to play deeper (no 10 role) more often than before and with a couple of intelligent, mobile well rounded centre forwards in front of him he will create plenty direct chances with threaded passes

I think the role he is being asked to fulfil is a role missing from the current team (Swanson maybe) and there is potential value in having him there.

I think the current team is imbalanced in that for all their attributes I don't see McGeouch, McGinn or Bartley creating much through threaded passes through the defence , so we have a choice of playing it wide or playing balls into the channels to let someone chase.

Personally if we could get Swanson fit I would play him in the role I have outlined for Stokes and have Stokes up front as part of pair.

My only reservation on this is that Stokes days of outpacing anyone are long gone.

I think folks expectations of him will need to shift as his role appears to have or some are in for a very unhappy few years with him.

I bet Lewis Stevenson & Paul Hanlon are glad to have him around to share some of the flak!

BTW to clarify an earlier post I made on Murray.

Murray has exceeded my expectations greatly and I am hopeful Lennon can elicit from him the same types of improvements he has with Boyle, but some of his runs are brutal and he is caught offside far too often.

My current impression of him is that he is good when forced to act instinctively but given the time to think he is often found wanting.

Hopfully he can kick on, its still early days.

I saw your post the other day and was halfway through responding but fell asleep

I've probably posted too much about him over the past few weeks. I'll let it rest for now.

[Eaststandee]

People throwing Murray under the bus in defense of Stokes is pish. Murray acts like a man who loves every minute of being at Hibs on and off the pitch, Stokes sometimes looks like a man who would be anywhere else.

[IlDiavola]

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Was that really my message? Think it was more "we'll forget nth number of poor games for us because you had 1 sensational one."

Spot on.

That's what I was trying to say last night and got shot down in flames and told by one charmer that my post was 'mince'.

It's a fansite on which people are perfectly entitled to voice their opinion.

Stokes is still 'dining out' on an inspirational performance some 19 months ago. Not many players would get that length of honeymoon period but hey ho, that's probably a 'load of mince' too.

Toe the party line and all that.

[IlDiavola]

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Think you are the only one who sees that mate. Utter mince.

Murray was far less involved than Stokes yesterday. Looked well out of his depth.

Not according to some other peoples posts I'm not.

So, I'm calling your statement 'utter mince'

[BSEJVT]

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Toe the party line and all that.

You were doing so well until then :-)

I have never seen any party line on here

There are generally open and honest debates from Hibs supporters who see things from different perspectives and occasionally it goes beyond that.

If you are prepared to express an opinion do so, but don't whine when folk don't share it and disagree and don't refer to clichés and party lines as its nonsense.

You only need to look at the ticketgate or cup final pitch invasion threads to see long established posters with big post counts expressing completely different opinions and often doing so vehemently.

It comes across as childish and weakens your argument considerably as it just looks like you have nothing to back it up.

Fight your corner for as long as you can be bothered isn't a bad mantra to have on here.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Not according to some other peoples posts I'm not.

So, I'm calling your statement 'utter mince'

Well the managers opinion is the one that matters so, based on the fact he picks Stokes all the time, you are talking mince.

[IlDiavola]

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You were doing so well until then :-)

I have never seen any party line on here

There are generally open and honest debates from Hibs supporters who see things from different perspectives and occasionally it goes beyond that.

If you are prepared to express an opinion do so, but don't whine when folk don't share it and disagree and don't refer to clichés and party lines as its nonsense.

You only need to look at the ticketgate or cup final pitch invasion threads to see long established posters with big post counts expressing completely different opinions and often doing so vehemently.

It comes across as childish and weakens your argument considerably as it just looks like you have nothing to back it up.

Fight your corner for as long as you can be bothered isn't a bad mantra to have on here.

Fair point mate

I accept that the 'party line' jibe was a step too far and for that I apologise.

[IlDiavola]

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Well the managers opinion is the one that matters so, based on the fact he picks Stokes all the time, you are talking mince.

Well, mince or no mince, who's to say that Neil Lennons' opinion is the correct one?

You obviously do, he obviously does and I obviously don't.

It's a debate, not a conversation in a butchers shop.

[Allant1981]

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Agree with the posters who're saying it looks like Murray is out his depth in this league.

what a load of rubbish

[IlDiavola]

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what a load of rubbish