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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    There's an argument to be had that the male of the species has been given a bad rap and whether or not that is deserved. However to try and argue that Christian White males have been systematically dealt an unfair hand in life similar to black people, Muslims, Jews, homosexuals or any other minority is ridiculous. Most people who take this line of argumentation make the mistake of mixing up prejudice with racism or homophobia. It's one thing being discriminated against by someone who holds a prejudice against who you are and being discriminated against systematically in a culture that alienates you because of who you are.
    Sorry that's not what I was meaning.

    Basically, Christians, both women and men have beliefs which can be dismissed by the general public without any real reproach. If the same level if disrespect was shown to other religions I feel more of a fuss would be made about it.

    Separate to that, I feel men also get a bum deal in many ways without having the ability to bring out the 'I'm only being treated like this because I'm....', line.


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  3. #32
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Oh oh, flag debate.
    Luv it


  4. #33
    @hibs.net private member easty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beensaidbefore View Post
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    I think christian values are regularly challenged in the media and portrayed as being backward and closed minded.

    If a person is an active christian and disagrees with eg. Abortion, or homosexuality then their view can be called out without reproach, it seems. I haven't seen other religions being publicly chastised/condemned in the same way. I'm pretty sure Judaism and Islam promote similar teachings, but are not regularly criticised in the press and on TV. If they have I must have missed it.
    For me, they are backward and closed minded. I don't think they're commonly/regularly attacked for it though. Very rarely.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by easty View Post
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    Fair game? Does Christianity get a hard time? Where? When? From whom?
    There was the Greggs sausage roll thing. I cant imagine they would have done that with Mohammed or Moses.

  6. #35
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by easty View Post
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    For me, they are backward and closed minded. I don't think they're commonly/regularly attacked for it though. Very rarely.
    Agreed, holding values based on the teachings of a book written 2 millennia ago and with the intention uniting/controlling the masses can't be described as anything other than backward thinking. Same applies for all other religions. But hey ho, if that's what folks want to do then so be it. I just draw the line when they expect others to share those values or when those values encroach on the lives of those who don't share them.

  7. #36
    @hibs.net private member easty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    There was the Greggs sausage roll thing. I cant imagine they would have done that with Mohammed or Moses.
    How could you incorporate Mohammed into a sausage roll add at Christmas?

    I suppose they could have had Moses reading out the "10 commandments of eating a sausage roll", with a Santa hat on. That would have worked as well as the one the actually used.

  8. #37
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Agreed, holding values based on the teachings of a book written 2 millennia ago and with the intention uniting/controlling the masses can't be described as anything other than backward thinking. Same applies for all other religions. But hey ho, if that's what folks want to do then so be it. I just draw the line when they expect others to share those values or when those values encroach on the lives of those who don't share them.
    Without getting too much into it I don't think the passage of time is much of a criteria to judge something on .... if something is worthwhile or has value then how long ago it was written is not IMO a reason to put it aside.

    Even if you don't believe the bible is inspired by divine intervention if you read the New Testament the bits of it which are directly attributed to Jesus, which is a tiny proportion of the book, are pretty interesting .... stuff like you should "love one another" and "turn the other cheek" seem to be very much at odds with the idea that Christianity is responsible for so much evil, which there's no denying a lot of its alleged practitioners throughout history have been.
    That's the bibles big drawback I suppose, it is open to interpretation in large parts and in cases like that folk will pick and choose the bits that suit them, a lot of the time to the detriment of what it is supposed to represent. From what I've seen and read the Koran appears to be no different.

    I suppose what I'm trying to say is totally dismissing all aspects of religion is kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater .... there's plenty of examples of people driven by their religion doing wonderful things to the benefit of their fellow man, often at huge cost to themselves. And yes, I know you don't need religion to be a good selfless person.

    The funny thing about the bible is that it predicts its own downfall ...... As the modern era progresses religion is indeed becoming less and less popular and in the psyche of the worlds population less and less relevant, especially in the 'developed' world. You often get church leaders on the telly bemoaning falling congregations and the general turning away from 'the faith' .... I'm surprised at their surprise because if they bothered to thumb through their copy of the New Testament they might notice that that's exactly what it says will happen

    Anyway ......... how is this a 'flag debate' ... c'mon folks
    Last edited by NAE NOOKIE; 01-12-2017 at 08:35 AM.

  9. #38
    If people use religion as a vessel for their own prejudices and intolerance then they are fair game for both opposition and being made the target of jokes. Many religious people I seem to encounter appear to use their religious beliefs as a mask for their own hypocrisy. Whether I believe that Jesus was God made man or a slightly eccentric hippy who patrolled the Middle East 2000 or so years ago is irrelevant; my view has always been that were he around today he would be far more concerned with the continuing war, drought and famine, slavery, religious and political corruption and preventable disease and death than he would with whether 2 men love, or lust after, each other. I can't help but think he would be more, or at least as, affronted by people harassing vulnerable and emotional women outside abortion clinics in his name than he would be with what was going on inside. The Bible is about as clear that eating shellfish is forbidden as it is about homosexuality yet I rarely see people protesting outside restaurants that sell prawn cocktail or harassing people buying lobsters. As I say it's hypocrisy, because to live life exactly as the Bible commands would lead to all kinds of contradictions, and it's worthy of both debate and to be made fun of. I extend that to all religions as well. Whether that is the Imams preaching a hateful version of Islam by selectively choosing the verses of the Quran they follow and how they interpret them, the single mindedness of the ultra conservative Jewish movements or cuddly Buddhism being exposed in all it's glory as the legend of Aang San Suu Kyi unravels before our eyes with the crisis of the Rohingya in Myanmar.

    Of course Christianity is the butt of more jokes in this country. It's the religion most of us have grown up with and it's still a visible presence in most of our lives to some degree. Our head of state is still the head of the Anglican church and the PM still advises her on religious appointments. We still have Christian programming on TV on a weekly basis. The reason most of us can laugh about jokes or acknowledge criticisms about Christianity is because we can relate to them and we may have experienced the issues being spoken about.
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  10. #39
    @hibs.net private member Sylar's Avatar
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    I inadvertantly clicked on page 2 of this rather than 1, and I find it absolutely amusing reading the content vs thread title! I'm now going back to page 1 to see how the **** we got here
    Okay, technically I'm a serial killer...

  11. #40
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    I inadvertantly clicked on page 2 of this rather than 1, and I find it absolutely amusing reading the content vs thread title! I'm now going back to page 1 to see how the **** we got here
    Without reading back through the thread I suspect I might have slightly nudged the steering wheel.

  12. #41
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    More tea, Vicar?

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    I inadvertantly clicked on page 2 of this rather than 1, and I find it absolutely amusing reading the content vs thread title! I'm now going back to page 1 to see how the **** we got here
    Christmas can now be indulged.

    I've made a stollen which should be ready on Sunday and a ton of mincemeat for pies.

    I used to like Furstenberg Weinachtsbeir but I haven't seen it in years!!

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