Monday night Fitba - James Collins

[silverhibee]

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Fenlon should have been sacked after the 5-1 game.

He should have definitely been sacked after the Malmo game.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Fenlon should have been sacked after the 5-1 game.

Manager should be sacked for losing to cheats in a cup final? Fenlon was the only one who showed some passion that day, no way he shouldve been sacked and rightfully wasnt.

[Firestarter]

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Manager should be sacked for losing to cheats in a cup final? Fenlon was the only one who showed some passion that day, no way he shouldve been sacked and rightfully wasnt.

You get humped off your rivals in a national final you should be sacked, yes. His team, his fault.

[Michael]

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You get humped off your rivals in a national final you should be sacked, yes. His team, his fault.

If Fenlon was spending twice what hearts were I'm sure he'd have beaten them comfortably too.

Fenlons's first season was about damage limitation from the mess Calderwood left.

[Tom Hart RIP]

Fyfe Highland and Scott Lindsay chose Pat Fenton over Michael O'Neil.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Spoke fairly well of his time at Hibs I thought. Says his goal in the new year derby will live with him forever and is in his top 5 goals of his career.

[TRC]

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Fyfe Highland and Scott Lindsay chose Pat Fenton over Michael O'Neil.

Was it not Craig Leven that scuppered O'Neil getting the job at the time, sure that was the chat

[MWHIBBIES]

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You get humped off your rivals in a national final you should be sacked, yes. His team, his fault.

Really? So managers should be judged on 1 game? Losing to Ross County in a final is worse than losing to a cheating Hearts team imo should Stubbs have been sacked? Look at the debt Hearts were in, we were bloody 11th, its a miracle we got 1.

It wasnt Fenlons team, it was Calderwoods mess with some bandages applied by Fenlon.

[Treadstone]

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Really? So managers should be judged on 1 game? Losing to Ross County in a final is worse than losing to a cheating Hearts team imo should Stubbs have been sacked? Look at the debt Hearts were in, we were bloody 11th, its a miracle we got 1.

It wasnt Fenlons team, it was Calderwoods mess with some bandages applied by Fenlon.

Diamond formation against two wide men (everyone knew pretty much how they would play) was entirely Fenlons call. A manager out of his depth.

[Thecat23]

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Diamond formation against two wide men (everyone knew pretty much how they would play) was entirely Fenlons call. A manager out of his depth.

He left Kujabi exposed big time that day. He was a poor player but was offered no cover. Everyone could see what what happening bar Fenlon.

[Thecat23]

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Really? So managers should be judged on 1 game? Losing to Ross County in a final is worse than losing to a cheating Hearts team imo should Stubbs have been sacked? Look at the debt Hearts were in, we were bloody 11th, its a miracle we got 1.

It wasnt Fenlons team, it was Calderwoods mess with some bandages applied by Fenlon.

Come on, you can’t say it wasn’t Fenlons team. He was manager he set out the tactics. Hibs players all arguing the night before the cup final of bonuses was a disgrace and Fenlon should never have let it get that far. Hearts were cheating yeah but Fenlons tactics that day were embarrassing.

[silverhibee]

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Fyfe Highland and Scott Lindsay chose Pat Fenton over Michael O'Neil.

Not true.

[Hiber-nation]

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Really? So managers should be judged on 1 game? Losing to Ross County in a final is worse than losing to a cheating Hearts team imo should Stubbs have been sacked? Look at the debt Hearts were in, we were bloody 11th, its a miracle we got 1.

It wasnt Fenlons team, it was Calderwoods mess with some bandages applied by Fenlon.

Sorry but hearts were a very average team and no-one expected that score. They finished 5th in the league, 10 points behind Motherwell and 7 off Dundee Utd. Yes we were pish but that scoreline should never have happened and the blame lies squarely with Fenlon and of course Mr Billy Brown.

[we are hibs]

Stunning how Fenlon wasn't as bad as the manager he replaced or the one who succeeded him.

[Firestarter]

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Really? So managers should be judged on 1 game? Losing to Ross County in a final is worse than losing to a cheating Hearts team imo should Stubbs have been sacked? Look at the debt Hearts were in, we were bloody 11th, its a miracle we got 1.

It wasnt Fenlons team, it was Calderwoods mess with some bandages applied by Fenlon.

Lets not make out that Hearts team was anything special. They where *****. My opinion is he should have been sacked. Losing in that manner to your rivals in a cup final isn't acceptable regardless of the financial playing field.

[supermcginn]

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Sorry but hearts were a very average team and no-one expected that score. They finished 5th in the league, 10 points behind Motherwell and 7 off Dundee Utd. Yes we were pish but that scoreline should never have happened and the blame lies squarely with Fenlon and of course Mr Billy Brown.

Billy Brown begged fenlon not to play the diamond but he didn't listen. Fenlon was a joke and miles and miles out his depth.

[Firestarter]

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If Fenlon was spending twice what hearts were I'm sure he'd have beaten them comfortably too.

Fenlons's first season was about damage limitation from the mess Calderwood left.

That's just guessing. All of it.

[Michael]

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That's just guessing. All of it.

Google it. Their wage budget for that season is public.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Google it. Their wage budget for that season is public.

Where? It's not in their accounts.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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There's a history in football of strikers who're prolific up to a certain level but can't cope when they come up against a higher standard of defender. Collins is in that category. He's been promoted three times from English league 2, but always ends up back there.

Other examples of the type are Kris Boyd who Rangers tended to drop when against Celtic or in Europe, or Jordan Rhodes who's been successful in the English Championship but bombed when he finally got a premier opportunity with Middlesborough.

To be fair to Jordan Rhodes if my recollection of Middlesborough's time in the EPL is accurate they were slated time and again on TV and the radio for their ultra negative approach, especially at home, which lead to what strikers they had being limited to one or two decent chances every game, if even that. My understanding was Robert Lewandowski would have had a job reaching 10 goals that season if he had been playing up front for them.

[Diclonius]

I'll never forget that Collins miss in the last derby of the season. It was the absolute worst I have ever seen for a Hibs player against them and it had so much riding on it too - if he'd scored that could have kept us up.

Still to this day have no idea how he missed that, and have never been angrier at one of our players than in that moment.

[truehibernian]

The form of Leigh Griffiths saved Pat Fenlon - without his goals and assists we would have been relegated a season sooner in my opinion.

Fenlon's absolute failure to identify creative midfielders and wide players with pace was also his undoing. The football was laboured, industrial and predictable. Lovely guy, speaks highly of the club at all times which is commendable, but ranks as one of the worst managers we have had in recent times I'm afraid. Calderwood, Fenlon, and Butcher all had their part to play in the continual decline in performance and standards and this should never ever be forgotten.

The last two managerial appointments have been very positive and Stubbs in particular has to be commended for the rebuild and turnaround in supporters feelings towards the club (and the way football was played). Lennon has built on that and moved us forward by a good margin. But the best signing we have made isn't a footballer - it's Leeann Dempster she is the driving force behind where we are right now and one of the main reasons our club is in such a strong position on and off the park. The turnaround, positivity, and success we have had in the last three years is a testament to her work - and George Craig and Co.

On topic - James Collins - one of the worst strikers I've seen and to think we also got money for him was astonishing. Collins, Vine and Heffernan Stokes, Murray and Boyle that says it all.

[Michael]

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Where? It's not in their accounts.

Sorry can't link properly as I'm on mobile.

This article says their accounts showed £8m on wages https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.scotsman.com/sport/football/competitions/premiership/hearts-to-reduce-wage-bill-to-3-5m-1-2618700/amp

[CallumLaidlaw]

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Was it not Craig Leven that scuppered O'Neil getting the job at the time, sure that was the chat

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...-job-1-3936491

[CropleyWasGod]

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Sorry can't link properly as I'm on mobile.

This article says their accounts showed £8m on wages https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.sco...-1-2618700/amp

That's wages exclusive of NI. Total costs were £9.4m, for all staff.

However, over a third of staff were non-playing, and no breakdown is given of the costs. It's therefore difficult to know what their playing wages were.

[Michael]

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That's wages exclusive of NI. Total costs were £9.4m, for all staff.

However, over a third of staff were non-playing, and no breakdown is given of the costs. It's therefore difficult to know what their playing wages were.

Well yes, but we can consider it relative to what we were spending. Would have been around 4-5 million.

[Firestarter]

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Google it. Their wage budget for that season is public.

It's still guesswork in terms of horsing them with a bigger budget. We couldn't horse Hamilton in the playoffs and they would have had a fraction of our budget.

You could even argue that Fenlon not being punted then was the biggest reason we ended up relegated two years later.

[Tom Hart RIP]

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Not true.

Rod said publicly on a few occasions that FH and SL were delegated to identify our new manager and he would not be involved.
FH and SL interviewed Michael O'Neil for 5 hours but chose Pat Fenton.
FH in particular boasted that they had found a real winner when Pat first arrived.
Are you suggesting that they wanted Michael O'Neil but someone presumably Rod overruled them?

[blackpoolhibs]

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That's wages exclusive of NI. Total costs were £9.4m, for all staff.

However, over a third of staff were non-playing, and no breakdown is given of the costs. It's therefore difficult to know what their playing wages were.

What about the wages that were being indirectly paid to some players through kaunas in lithuania, who knows what that amounted to?

[BSEJVT]

Sorry but for me Collins was absolutely brutal.

A truly awful footballer.

There isn't a single thing he could do other than lumbering about like a huge fat coo with a face that looked as though it was sweating last night's bevvy out it after 3 minutes and for the rest of the game

I hated him playing for Hibs and even now the thought of him doing so gives me the dry boak.

Undoubtedly one of my least favourite players in 50 years of watching Hibs

Definite top 5 material, as for that matter were a lot of the players around at that time such as Clancy & Kujabi

Fenlon was totally clueless, bailed out by Griffiths & O'Connor's goals in season 1 and some good experienced pro's like Thomson & McPake

Signed some absolute **** which seemed to be our speciality subject in the, post 2007 CIS cup win, wilderness years.