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Thread: The Budget

  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Are Jaffa Cakes VATted?
    That was the big argument when I worked part time at Makro years back.
    I'm fairly certain McVities took it to court and succeeded so there's no VAT on Jaffa Cakes, that information could both be wrong AND out of date though!


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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    That was the big argument when I worked part time at Makro years back.
    I'm fairly certain McVities took it to court and succeeded so there's no VAT on Jaffa Cakes, that information could both be wrong AND out of date though!
    Farce. A Jaffa Cake is clearly a biscuit. Was Lord Nimmo Smith involved?

  4. #33
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    How should we get it back? I thought the rules were very clear and well known, Police forces governed by local authorities/councils were eligible to claim back VAT, National forces were not.
    The Scottish Government knew this at the time and John Swinney when finance minister even allocated extra funds to offset this anomaly.
    I don't agree that Police & Fire Brigades should be paying VAT and they weren't until the deck of cards was shuffled.
    The rules and regs on VAT is a minefield anyway, the whole biscuits are luxury(VATted) cake is a necessity (non-VATted)
    scrambles my noggin'.
    Every other Police Force in the UK can reclaim its VAT.

  5. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Farce. A Jaffa Cake is clearly a biscuit. Was Lord Nimmo Smith involved?
    Apparently it's a cake because if you leave it too long it goes hard, whereas a biscuit goes soft.

    Never see either in our house.

  6. #35
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    Thanks for answering the questions.
    It was a politicianís answer!

  7. #36
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Every other Police Force in the UK can reclaim its VAT.
    But is the point not that they are LOCAL not NATIONAL?
    Rules & regs on VAT are complicated but for some reason National bodies cannot claim VAT back on expenditures. This was known before Police Scotland was formed, that is my point.

  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    But is the point not that they are LOCAL not NATIONAL?
    Rules & regs on VAT are complicated but for some reason National bodies cannot claim VAT back on expenditures. This was known before Police Scotland was formed, that is my point.
    And that's why they're not allowed to reclaim it for past years. I reckon HMG have recognised the patent unfairness of the previous set-up. It also, politically, dilutes the argument that Scotland is a "nation" rather than a "region".

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

  9. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Apparently it's a cake because if you leave it too long it goes hard, whereas a biscuit goes soft.
    What was to prevent the judge/s just saying that biscuits are hard and cakes are soft? Why introduce the delay? Just to bump up legal fees I imagine. Whole system is corrupt.

  10. #39
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    How should we get it back? I thought the rules were very clear and well known, Police forces governed by local authorities/councils were eligible to claim back VAT, National forces were not.
    The Scottish Government knew this at the time and John Swinney when finance minister even allocated extra funds to offset this anomaly.
    I don't agree that Police & Fire Brigades should be paying VAT and they weren't until the deck of cards was shuffled.
    The rules and regs on VAT is a minefield anyway, the whole biscuits are luxury(VATted) cake is a necessity (non-VATted)
    scrambles my noggin'.
    Something to do with rules on National forces in England not having to pay vat. Roads, I think. I'd have to check it though.

  11. #40
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    What was to prevent the judge/s just saying that biscuits are hard and cakes are soft? Why introduce the delay? Just to bump up legal fees I imagine. Whole system is corrupt.
    You forgot the orange dimension to the conspiracy.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    What was to prevent the judge/s just saying that biscuits are hard and cakes are soft? Why introduce the delay? Just to bump up legal fees I imagine. Whole system is corrupt.
    I'm honestly not sure if you are serious or not but must admit I did find the concept of someone deciding our 'whole system' was corrupt on the basis of a legal dispute over biscuits actually rather amusing 🤣

  13. #42
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    I'm honestly not sure if you are serious or not but must admit I did find the concept of someone deciding our 'whole system' was corrupt on the basis of a legal dispute over biscuits actually rather amusing 🤣
    IT'S A ****ING CAKE


  14. #43
    @hibs.net private member Radium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Something to do with rules on National forces in England not having to pay vat. Roads, I think. I'd have to check it though.


    Absolutely not an expert in this area but think this is the case that is being quoted



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  15. #44
    @hibs.net proletariat member Pete's Avatar
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    Another laughable conservative budget regarding housing.

    Increasing council tax for billionaire property investors and abolishing stamp duty are meaningless responses to a very real crisis. As are promises of 300,000 new homes a year.

    Flats and houses, things that people can build bases from and forge communities in, are totally at the mercy of those who see property as nothing but a source of profit.

    Vested interests are once again protected and it's absolutely infuriating. People who laugh at the thought of any type of socialism in our country might be laughing on the other side of their faces in a few years as something will crack. It's gone too far.

  16. #45
    Testimonial Due Geo_1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    But is the point not that they are LOCAL not NATIONAL?
    Rules & regs on VAT are complicated but for some reason National bodies cannot claim VAT back on expenditures. This was known before Police Scotland was formed, that is my point.
    Except that PSNI is a central government body and can reclaim VAT.

  17. #46
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    From Beeb Website....
    Analysis: Kamal Ahmed, BBC Economics Editor

    What is the point of capitalism?
    That might seem like a pretty big question, but one answer could be "to provide people the opportunity through work to become richer".
    What, though, if the economy fails in that endeavour?
    If the system leaves you - despite all your efforts - worse off in December than you were the previous January?
    Or worse off now than you were a decade ago?
    It was Lord Adair Turner, the former head of the Low Pay Commission, who put it succinctly.
    "The UK over the last 10 years has created a lot of jobs, but today real wages are below where they were in 2007," he told me earlier this year.
    "That is not the capitalist system delivering its promise that over a decade or so it will raise all boats, and it is a very fundamental issue."

  18. #47
    Testimonial Due Geo_1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    From Beeb Website....
    Analysis: Kamal Ahmed, BBC Economics Editor

    What is the point of capitalism?
    That might seem like a pretty big question, but one answer could be "to provide people the opportunity through work to become richer".
    What, though, if the economy fails in that endeavour?
    If the system leaves you - despite all your efforts - worse off in December than you were the previous January?
    Or worse off now than you were a decade ago?
    It was Lord Adair Turner, the former head of the Low Pay Commission, who put it succinctly.
    "The UK over the last 10 years has created a lot of jobs, but today real wages are below where they were in 2007," he told me earlier this year.
    "That is not the capitalist system delivering its promise that over a decade or so it will raise all boats, and it is a very fundamental issue."
    Capitalism works fine when trickle-down works. When it doesn't it becomes feudalism.

  19. #48
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Is there not also a quote along the lines of socialism works fine until you run out of other people's money.

  20. #49
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geo_1875 View Post
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    Except that PSNI is a central government body and can reclaim VAT.
    PSNI funding is treated as local authority spending (has been since an agreement in the early 90's) and any saving is offset by a reduction by 2.5% in any block grant increases (Barnett).

    Quoted from this link
    "PSNI do not qualify for an s33 VAT rebate. All spending by the Northern Irish Executive is treated as if from a local body and therefore provides PSNI with an s99 rebate on VAT. However, all Barnett consequential increases to the Northern Irish block grant are abated by 2.5% to offset this ability to reclaim VAT. So PSNI do effectively pay VAT, only from the top line rather than the bottom. A fact that was made clear to the Scottish Government in the SPICe report to the audit committee on police reform."

    I've said it before, VAT is a minefield!

  21. #50
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    Is there not also a quote along the lines of socialism works fine until you run out of other people's money.
    Yes, although to be fair the comment came from a Mrs Margaret Hilda Thatcher, who probably doesn't qualify as an objective source on the subject

  22. #51
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    • Despite welcome but relatively small shifts on Universal Credit, tax and benefit policies announced since Summer Budget 2015 are set to put downward pressure on living standards and upward pressure on inequality. The poorest third of households are set for an average loss of £715 a year by the end of the parliament, while the richest third gain an average of £185.

    Grim reading http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/...2017-response/

  23. #52
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Grieves View Post
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    • Despite welcome but relatively small shifts on Universal Credit, tax and benefit policies announced since Summer Budget 2015 are set to put downward pressure on living standards and upward pressure on inequality. The poorest third of households are set for an average loss of £715 a year by the end of the parliament, while the richest third gain an average of £185.

    Grim reading http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/...2017-response/
    I read the thing about productivity growth being measured as the worst since before the industrial revolution with total bafflement. How's that even possible??

  24. #53
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Tax gap will not be as important as the impact of Brexit and wider economic issues so it only needs time to bed in whilst the real issues play out but its getting some attention down here. One way or the other it will be the basis of policies included in manifestoes come the next election and that could be any time.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...ting-own-rules

  25. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    Tax gap will not be as important as the impact of Brexit and wider economic issues so it only needs time to bed in whilst the real issues play out but its getting some attention down here. One way or the other it will be the basis of policies included in manifestoes come the next election and that could be any time.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...ting-own-rules
    I love this kind of pish:

    Accountants calculate that if the Scots keep the higher rate at £43,000, it would mean a £50,000 earner would then pay £670 a year more than a colleague on the same income, based in London.
    for "accountants" read "anyone with a ****** calculator".

  26. #55
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    Ive read quite a lot lately from Labour supporters about how borrowing isnt a problem because they are the issuer of the currency.

    Im no economist, so i dont really understans that argument. I get that borrow-to-invest argument, but what they appear to be saying is that borrowing has no downside? If that is true, and it is so straightforward that borrowing 'pays for itself', why isnt everyone doing it and why dont we borrow even more?

    It all seems a bit too good to be true - and actually reminds me a bit of yamenomics.

  27. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Ive read quite a lot lately from Labour supporters about how borrowing isnt a problem because they are the issuer of the currency.

    Im no economist, so i dont really understans that argument. I get that borrow-to-invest argument, but what they appear to be saying is that borrowing has no downside? If that is true, and it is so straightforward that borrowing 'pays for itself', why isnt everyone doing it and why dont we borrow even more?

    It all seems a bit too good to be true - and actually reminds me a bit of yamenomics.
    It's a minefield for sure!

    But with interest costs of £60bn this year and a debt of £1.8trn the concept that borrowing and spending somehow fixes all our woes would seem to have already been proven to be false.

    Also the terms 'investment' when it comes to public spending is one that is so often wide of the mark it's unreal.

    That's not to say that governments don't have a role to play in funding long term infrastructure projects or educating our population to allow the nation to be more prosperous in the future because they do...it's just that increasing teachers wages for example is often cited as an 'investment' when there is little or no evidence that higher wages leads to better returns (or increased productivity)

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