Annual Accounts - The failure of HSL

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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Admins, can we please change the title of this thread. There's absolutely nothing to verify the statement re failure of HSL.

Yes a bit offside in my opinion. Was it just being deliberately provocative to stimulate debate? The OP doesn’t appear to favour fan ownership so does that not mean that success for HSL would be not what he wanted either?

I think ithat fan ownership question however has shone a light as to why some folks may be holding back. But really how can something that has grown to have was it 2000 contributors and revenues from the club that previously were not there be deemed a failure? And was
Not HSL money credited in helping secure one of our targets?

[MWHIBBIES]

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Am i right in thinking some people are worried about who own us, when apart from the last 18 months under Farmer and Petrie, the last 10 years have been a bloody shambles?

Obviously we want the right people involved at the top, but let's not sugar coat and rewrite history under the present owners.

2 relegations and 2 cups, but a whole lot more misery than good days thats for sure.

Is it? We've had as many good seasons as bad ones. Majority has been average.

I trust both of them considerably more than anyone else mentioned or the prospect of fan ownership.

[BSEJVT]

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Yes a bit offside in my opinion. Was it just being deliberately provocative to stimulate debate? The OP doesn’t appear to favour fan ownership so does that not mean that success for HSL would be not what he wanted either?

I think ithat fan ownership question however has shone a light as to why some folks may be holding back. But really how can something that has grown to have was it 2000 contributors and revenues from the club that previously were not there be deemed a failure? And was
Not HSL money credited in helping secure one of our targets?

I have already said that the thread title was being deliberately provocative in order to stimulate debate and thankfully it seems to have worked.

I doubt it would have had the same impact if I had titled it anything else.

It also seems to have galvanised HSL into a flurry of activity which was another of its aims.

Just this morning I received an e-mail as a lapsed subscriber inviting me to restart, this should have been done and should continue to be done whenever a member meets their minimum commitment and their direct debit cancels.

FYI, I had simply recontributed afresh to ensure contributions continued.

HSL themselves admit that they could have done so much better.

As for fan ownership, it means different things to different people.

HSL themselves have stated their ambition is to own 26% of the shares and I absolutely support them in that endeavour.

We no longer have 2000 contributing members, it was before this thread started around 1650.

The purpose of this thread was to shine a light on the fact that for a multitude of reasons HSL had hit a wall and that FOH for another multitude of reasons was forging ahead and was to try and get the topic of HSL back on the agenda

My personal target in this was initially to try and drive the number of contributing members back over 2000 and to reach that 26% barrier by the end of the decade.

But we must have greater ambition than that in the medium term.

If you can afford to, and only if you can afford to, please either start, restart or increase your contributions to HSL

[Ronniekirk]

Apart from for Personal Financial reasons it would be good to know why people stopped making contributions
And to hear from people that aren't making contributions about why they aren't
If we dont understand those These issues its difficult to know what to do next that will encourage growth
I have said it before a Team like Hibs with current Support should be able to outperform Motherwell and St Mirren yet both have more members than us


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[nonshinyfinish]

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Excellent. Can I count on your support for my consortium?

Of course, but act fast. I used to own 0.0074%, but the pricks keep creating more shares!

[JimboHibs]

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Apart from for Personal Financial reasons it would be good to know why people stopped making contributions
And to hear from people that aren't making contributions about why they aren't
If we dont understand those These issues its difficult to know what to do next that will encourage growth
I have said it before a Team like Hibs with current Support should be able to outperform Motherwell and St Mirren yet both have more members than us


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HSL felt like a scam as soon as they used it as a bribe for loyalty points .....thats why I don't make any contributions.

[StevieCowan]

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HSL felt like a scam as soon as they used it as a bribe for loyalty points .....thats why I don't make any contributions.

Knowingly giving funds to your football club, when you are in no doubt that it doesn't represent any personal monetary value to you, doesn't constitute a scam.

The Loyalty Points question has been done to death. It doesn't exist anymore.

[BSEJVT]

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HSL felt like a scam as soon as they used it as a bribe for loyalty points .....thats why I don't make any contributions.

Okay

That backfired spectacularly and lessons have been learned

That issue is in the distant past

Will you contribute now?

If not what will it take you to do so?

What can be a scam about donating money to enable a supporters group to acquire a significant shareholding in the club which will be there for all time to provide a blocking vote against anything and anyone acting not in the club's interests?

[JimBHibees]

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HSL felt like a scam as soon as they used it as a bribe for loyalty points .....thats why I don't make any contributions.

Dont think that was the smartest move but a scam really.

[Ronniekirk]

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HSL felt like a scam as soon as they used it as a bribe for loyalty points .....thats why I don't make any contributions.

It was what prompted me to join Took me months to get my points sorted out and on the system Had no sooner done that and it was abolished
But i continue to contribute for the Greater Good of the Club i love and support


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[Bostonhibby]

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Of course, but act fast. I used to own 0.0074%, but the pricks keep creating more shares!

Could we all get together and form the 1% ers? Probably never get there but it's living the dream

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[Billy Whizz]

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Knowingly giving funds to your football club, when you are in no doubt that it doesn't represent any personal monetary value to you, doesn't constitute a scam.

The Loyalty Points question has been done to death. It doesn't exist anymore.

It’s still on HSL website

http://www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk...-benefits.html

[Leithenhibby]

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Interesting that I can't recall much of anything in the media but in contrast FoH's effective failure to deliver any ownership gets trumpeted as a success phenomenon in supporter ownership modelling. So is this a difference in the approaches to the media or in the media's approach to HSL?

Ps I'd like to increase the minimum I pay in but I have no idea how to achieve this!

Just sign in to your Go-Cardless account and you can edit it there.

GGTTH

[blackpoolhibs]

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2 relegations in the last ten years? I mustn't have been paying enough attention.

Read it again.

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We'll probably never agree on this but...

Under Farmers ownership, there is a fairly healthy Hibs with a big support still playing at Easter Road, in a rebuilt stadium. And those cups. And we never ripped anyone off to do it.

I know where Hibs should be. I also know where we have been.

In the grand scheme of things, he's been a great owner. And Petrie is his chosen man.

We agree at last.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Is it? We've had as many good seasons as bad ones. Majority has been average.

I trust both of them considerably more than anyone else mentioned or the prospect of fan ownership.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_F.C._seasons

Since 1990 we have had 6 seasons where weve finished 4th or better, anything less in my opinion is a failure.

Constant under achievement and 2 relegations might be ok for you, but i think we should have done better. I do see the good things that have been done, the training centre and the stadium are top notch, and a credit to them.

Crowds are up, and things right now are brilliant, i couldn't be more happy with how we are progressing.

I wont change my opinion of the past just because we are doing well now though.

[malcolm]

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Just sign in to your Go-Cardless account and you can edit it there.

GGTTH

Sounds simple but not being a merchant or recipient of the payments made, there does not appear to be any customer log in nor means to edit the amount. I can cancel via my bank but from what I can determine it is up to the recipient to facilitate change.... which is where I came in ... course happy to be educated otherwise

[OfficialHSL]

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Sounds simple but not being a merchant or recipient of the payments made, there does not appear to be any customer log in nor means to edit the amount. I can cancel via my bank but from what I can determine it is up to the recipient to facilitate change.... which is where I came in ... course happy to be educated otherwise

Malcolm

Just email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk and we will be delighted to alter it at our side.

HSL

[Gogs07]

Just signed up to the monthly contribution again, after receiving an e-mail reminder after paying the initial £225.
I'm not available to make all the home games, so this is my way of given something for the benefit of our glorious club!
It was painless enough and all Hibs fans should consider signing up, if they can afford to?.

[malcolm]

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Malcolm

Just email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk and we will be delighted to alter it at our side.

HSL

Cheers - i had asked by email in the past and was directed to my bank or gocardless and when that was a dead end I had just given up. Happy to try again

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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Apart from for Personal Financial reasons it would be good to know why people stopped making contributions
And to hear from people that aren't making contributions about why they aren't
If we dont understand those These issues its difficult to know what to do next that will encourage growth
I have said it before a Team like Hibs with current Support should be able to outperform Motherwell and St Mirren yet both have more members than us


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How do the overall contributions stack up - ie is it more folks paying less or is it more folks paying more?

Where do you go with this tho - do you (like some charities tactics) try to entice existing folks to pay more (I think that can have an overall nagative
Effect on goodwill if not carefully handled.

[BSEJVT]

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How do the overall contributions stack up - ie is it more folks paying less or is it more folks paying more?

Where do you go with this tho - do you (like some charities tactics) try to entice existing folks to pay more (I think that can have an overall nagative
Effect on goodwill if not carefully handled.

The first aim must be to get those that have completed their minimum contributions and have had their direct debits cancelled recontributing, I have seem umpteen post on various threads over the years with folk wanting / offering to do so.

Thankfully HSL have grabbed this particular bull by the horns and have asked people to consider recontributing.

The next thing is to keep HSL in the limelight and encourage those who may contribute for the first time to do so.

We can help facilitate this (as this thread was intended to do) by debunking some of the myths and misunderstandings around HSL and answering questions people may have about contributing or contributing again.

My personal opinion is that it is great that folk want to increase their contributions but shouldn't be browbeaten into doing so and consequently it should be entirely voluntary on their part and instigated by them not HSL.

The big thing for me is to get HSL back on the agenda and back being discussed and we can each play a part in this by discussing the issue and asking those that we know that don't or haven't contributed to reconsider.

I don't want us looking back in years to come when FOH's money gives them an advantage over us and regretting our complacency now.

I want us to keep sticking it to them for decades to come and like it or not finance plays a huge part in this.

Do what you can to promote HSL, but give only what you can comfortably afford.

[BSEJVT]

Official HSL

Can you update this thread with whatever changes have been made in relation to number of people contributing / increased contributions since this thread started and keep doing so on a weekly basis please?

I desperately want us to get back over 2000 contributors in the short term and the surest way I know of doing this is to let people see progress as it generates its own momentum.

You only have to look at the various season ticket and match threads to see the galvanising effect it has.

At the very minimum regular updates should help keep the topic in mind.

Thanks

[Monktonhall 7]

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The first aim must be to get those that have completed their minimum contributions and have had their direct debits cancelled recontributing, I have seem umpteen post on various threads over the years with folk wanting / offering to do so.

Thankfully HSL have grabbed this particular bull by the horns and have asked people to consider recontributing.

The next thing is to keep HSL in the limelight and encourage those who may contribute for the first time to do so.

We can help facilitate this (as this thread was intended to do) by debunking some of the myths and misunderstandings around HSL and answering questions people may have about contributing or contributing again.

My personal opinion is that it is great that folk want to increase their contributions but shouldn't be browbeaten into doing so and consequently it should be entirely voluntary on their part and instigated by them not HSL.

The big thing for me is to get HSL back on the agenda and back being discussed and we can each play a part in this by discussing the issue and asking those that we know that don't or haven't contributed to reconsider.

I don't want us looking back in years to come when FOH's money gives them an advantage over us and regretting our complacency now.

I want us to keep sticking it to them for decades to come and like it or not finance plays a huge part in this.

Do what you can to promote HSL, but give only what you can comfortably afford.

I don't post that often, but I think you need to be applauded for helping reinvigorate HSL. Any penny the club can get over and above Season Tickets etc is a massive boost, and if fans are able to affford a little bit extra, then it's for the good of HFC. Your posts have suddenly put HSL back on the map and raised awareness. I remember after completing my £225 contribution receiving an e mail from HSL asking me to continue with the payments, which I did, but I can't believe the numbers that have been allowed to slip through.

Hopefully we are going to continue seeing HSL communicating regularly and subscribers increasing.

[BSEJVT]

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I don't post that often, but I think you need to be applauded for helping reinvigorate HSL. Any penny the club can get over and above Season Tickets etc is a massive boost, and if fans are able to affford a little bit extra, then it's for the good of HFC. Your posts have suddenly put HSL back on the map and raised awareness. I remember after completing my £225 contribution receiving an e mail from HSL asking me to continue with the payments, which I did, but I can't believe the numbers that have been allowed to slip through.

Hopefully we are going to continue seeing HSL communicating regularly and subscribers increasing.

Thanks

That's really kind of you

All that matters is Hibs and that we give the team the best chance of competing on the park whilst securing the long term future of the club by getting HSL to 26%.

All I want is for folk to keep HSL in mind if they have a few quid they can spare each month and to keep HSL at the forefront of our discussions on Hibs

[basehibby]

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Note 20 Analysis of Cash flows

Hibs received £150,000 in the last financial year from the Issue of Ordinary Shares

Now I know many will be along to tell me that at least Hibs supporters or HSL own some share whereas the Gunts don't.

But on the back of respective achievements / performances of the last 3 or 4 seasons how the ****ing hell can FOH be raising virtually 10 times what we are, it is an absolute disgrace.

I know many will be along to tell me they either paid up or died and I get that.

I also get that we may never match them for that reason

But it is ridiculous the disparity.

I moan about it all the time and get criticised by many for doing so which is fair enough, the question is what can be done about it!

The Yams' big take up of Foundation of Hearts' pay-now-shares-later initiative is massively influenced by the fact that they all know that the existence of their club has depended on their investment.

I have seriously considered buying shares - and may yet do so in future - but have decided to spend my limited funds on supporting the team directly with an ST for the time being. I'm pretty sure that if Farmer was to announce "buy the club or it goes to the wall" then there would be a similarly enthusiastic take up from Hibs fans to the Yams. Like I said I am interested in buying shares but don't see any rush and will not push the boat out - like most folk I have lots of competing priorites for spending my money.

NB - by extension I do not consider an extra £150K in the club's coffers to be any kind of failure. On the contrary! If HSL keep reminding us all occasionally and a similar amount is achieved year on year then it's all good!

[BSEJVT]

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The Yams' big take up of Foundation of Hearts' pay-now-shares-later initiative is massively influenced by the fact that they all know that the existence of their club has depended on their investment.

I have seriously considered buying shares - and may yet do so in future - but have decided to spend my limited funds on supporting the team directly with an ST for the time being. I'm pretty sure that if Farmer was to announce "buy the club or it goes to the wall" then there would be a similarly enthusiastic take up from Hibs fans to the Yams. Like I said I am interested in buying shares but don't see any rush and will not push the boat out - like most folk I have lots of competing priorites for spending my money.

NB - by extension I do not consider an extra £150K in the club's coffers to be any kind of failure. On the contrary! If HSL keep reminding us all occasionally and a similar amount is achieved year on year then it's all good!

Thanks for your reply

As it doesn't cover any points that haven't already been addressed on the thread I wont respond to them specifically, unless you want me to?

The one thing I would say again though is that in my view there is a big danger that FOH which was born out of adversity and consequently had much more immediate traction will one day hand them a substantial on-field advantage over us.

Again in my view we can step up and meet that challenge or return to a situation whereby a Hearts team with more financial muscle than us gains the upper hand on us on the pitch.

I like things just as they are just now thanks, and if this thread and folks irritation at the way I deliberately framed it is the price to be paid then so be it.

I don't think I have once suggested in this thread that folk spend money they don't have, indeed I have taken great care not to do so, if that isn't the impression folk have taken I am truly sorry.

The proposition remains the same "Do you have a few quid you can comfortably spare each month that you might consider subscribing to HSL?"

HSL by their own admission on this thread haven't done as well as they could have / should have and if this thread helps address that then it is all worth it.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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Malcolm

Just email us at info@hiberniansupporters.co.uk and we will be delighted to alter it at our side.

HSL

my message to that particular email address back in April was completely ignored.

not having a go, I’m sure you all have lives outside of HSL, but it is disheartening for people who are eager to join and get involved to not even receive an answer to their queries

[BSEJVT]

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my message to that particular email address back in April was completely ignored.

not having a go, I’m sure you all have lives outside of HSL, but it is disheartening for people who are eager to join and get involved to not even receive an answer to their queries

Unfortunately your experience is non unusual as the same thing also happened to me.

The simple truth of the matter is that HSL are massively under-resourced for the task that is being asked of them.

This is why earlier in the thread I asked that folk who might be prepared to offer some time to help pm'd me for onward transmission to HSL

Whilst its entirely possible that folk have contacted HSL directly, to date I have had one response.

We need to be careful here that we don't end up lagging miles behind the Jambos if they finally get their act together unless folk are prepared to step up to the plate either in terms of contributing to HSL (if they can comfortably afford to do so) or offering their help if they cannot.

[OfficialHSL]

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It looks like HSL/share selling will have done it's job (ie 51% fan ownership) in another couple of years time. I suppose better marketting of shares could see that reduced a bit but there really isn't any point.

I fully expect that the HSL income stream will continue after the 51% deadline is reached, albeit in some other form - I know I have every intention of continuing contributions.

I also fully expect that interest in Hearts ownership will have started to dwindle long before they have acheived anything like %51 ownership - football fans are a fickle lot in my view and if they don't deliver on the pitch then AB could well be left holding the baby.

Crabis

Thank you for your support, many of our Members share your view and have already said they want to continue contributions. The FOH are already on record to say that they plan to carry on after the ownership objectives have been achieved. Why wouldn't they when they could offer the Manager an extra £1m per year for the playing budget ?

[hhibs]

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_F.C._seasons

Since 1990 we have had 6 seasons where weve finished 4th or better, anything less in my opinion is a failure.

Constant under achievement and 2 relegations might be ok for you, but i think we should have done better. I do see the good things that have been done, the training centre and the stadium are top notch, and a credit to them.

Crowds are up, and things right now are brilliant, i couldn't be more happy with how we are progressing.

I wont change my opinion of the past just because we are doing well now though.

Well said blackpoolhibs.