Annual Accounts - The failure of HSL

[MyJo]

Maybe this type of reaction to HSL promotion and trying to drum up contributions from the support is what is hindering progress?

http://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?3...ghlight=shares

[Bostonhibby]

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No bother Just back in and didn't catch up on whole thread.

I wonder if any of those people would be willing to accept they were wrong

you probably know the answer to that one and I wouldn't fancy going round that particular circle again.

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[CapitalGreen]

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We do try hard not to get too involved in Supporter threads as it can easily lead to misunderstandings which are not intended, however, as this thread relates directly to HSL we hope you don't mind our participation.

Please remember that your Directors are just the same as you , ordinary supporters. We too would like to see much more financial support for our Club, particularly at what has been a difficult period. We are absolutely delighted with what our 1650 Members have been able to achieve and of course wish we could at the very least double this number. That however is up to our Supporters. We , the Supporters must decide for ourselves what we want for our Club and what ambitions we have for our Club. We don't feel HSL has failed since a very substantial sum of money has been injected into the Club and our success on the park has definitely been influenced by this money. If it helps we will respond to the other items raised on this thread.

Hello, thanks for responding on this thread. 2 questions if I may.

1. What is happening with communication. As I mentioned earlier the website has not been updated in a very long time and the twitter account hasn't posted a tweet in nearly 2 months? Anyone looking to sign up as a new member may get the impression that this scheme is no longer running.

2. What is the current plan for the election of the new directors which is due to happen in early 2018? I believe there was possibly a meeting in September however I was out of the country and there does not appear to have been an update communicated following this.

[OfficialHSL]

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HSL is amateur hour in comparison to how FOH is run.

https://www.foundationofhearts.org/

- Events every couple of months - plot ceremonies where donators receive some sort recognition for their contributions.
- A members area where you can track and adjust how much you are donating.
- A rewards scheme.
- An active an visible Chairperson.

http://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/

- The newest news item is a Youtube Video from March 2016 which has garnered 236 views.
- They haven't tweeted in 2 months.
- Nothing tangible to show for your contribution except a certificate you need to jump through hoops to receive.

Capital Green

The points you make are valid and we completely understand why you feel HSL has not performed as well as FOH.

Our respective organisations started from different positions and even now have differing objectives. The FOH spend a significant sum of money on marketing activities/initiatives and this can be justified with an income level of approx. £120,000 per month. HSL have attempted to direct as much money as possible to the Club over the last two years. At our recent AGM , Members confirmed that they would be happy to see money spent on Marketing activities and in particular a new web site. We have commissioned a Company to carry out this work and we intend to have the new site up and running very soon. Many of the administrative issues we have had in the past will be automated allowing Certificates to be issued automatically. Our brief flirtation with some kind of reward/recognition was not well received by other supporters so we have tended to stand back from that during this period. All of this can of course be changed should our Members so desire.

[OfficialHSL]

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Re-launch the day after the next derby win and see if this gives it a big boost?

I am being honest I signed up for the points but have continued to pay it since.

Thank you for sticking with us even after receiving the points.

[Iain G]

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Because there is and always will be a comparison staring us in the coupon.

Why should we compare with that lot?

HSL is a different beast entirely and not a way for Hearts to fund their day to day waste and keep Ann Budge in tartan blazers under some kind of guise as a fan ownership scheme.

HSL has been nicely simmering along to the point we now have 1/3 of the club in fan ownership without the pressure of a club in trouble needing financed.

[OfficialHSL]

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We are doing better than them.

There's no much money in Scottish football though, and this kind of additional income would definitely make a difference, and keep us ahead of them.

Easty

You are absolutely right and we believe this is what motivates most of our active Members. While money can never guarantee success it is fair to say that it has a very significant influence, particularly if being spent wisely.

[Shore Thing]

I was surprised to read that HSL only own 11% of the shares in the club.
At the start of May 2016 (after about 1 year of operating), HSL owned 8% and this was rising very quickly - about 1% every month or so.
In the 18 months since then, we've only purchased another 3% of the club.

I'm presuming this is down to 2 factors:

• HSL automatically stopping taking DD payments once folk have paid their £200 (why, when many folk would happily continue paying?)
• A lack of new uptake due to non-existent marketing.

These issues need to be addressed by HSL, or Hibs.

HSL seems to be the only aspect of the club that hasn't moved forward, or embraced the optimism and ambition currently surrounding Hibs. I realise HSL is run by very busy people offering their time for free, and I'm grateful for that. However, in my opinion we're missing huge opportunities due to the seemingly lacklustre way HSL is run.

I only pay a tiny monthly amount, but I know that my money helped in a small way to directly pay for the players who won us the Scottish Cup. To me it's a no-brainer. Folk happily spend £30-50 a month to Sky or BT - paying the wages of EPL stars. Why not put a fraction of that directly towards your Hibs squad, and as a by-product safe guard the future of the club and ensure that it always remains rooted in the community.

[brog]

From reading this thread & prior it appears a bit as if HSL are damned if they do & damned if they don't. I do think however this thread has thrown up some valid concerns re communication & some good suggestions re how to get more people engaged. Personally I think a lot of it is down to the apathy side of human nature, in that many people never switch banks, utilities etc because it's too much trouble, even though they may be getting screwed. I confess partly to that as I made a one off payment to HSL, covering several years subs. However since then I've intended to set up a separate DD for myself & son & have never got round to it. Anything that makes it easier for the fans to sign up is to be welcomed IMO. However I couldn't tell you last time I heard directly from HSL & I suspect as a one off contributor I may not do so again. I believe a re-launch would be worthwhile but I have 2 suggestions;
1. Those who are members of HSL or those who join up, please don't disparage those who don't. We all have differing personal circumstances.
2. Those who don't wish to join up please don't disparage the people or the principle behind the scheme. It's Hibs fans running it for Hibs fans & for the benefit of Hibs.

[OfficialHSL]

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Agree completely. This is a massive bugbear of mine too.

We are literally ahead/equal of them in every department (infrastructure, team, managerial staff,attendences, directors, Derby record, league, cups, sellable assets etc) except FOH/HSL where they are miles ahead.

If we can close this gap we can dominate for years to come. If we do not, we start each season with a significant financial disadvantage.

What can be done about this?

Lee

This is why it is so important to highlight and debate this now. At some point, in the not too distant future, the FOH funding will be directed into their football budget. The will shortly complete their agreed share of the Stadium funding and thereafter will complete the purchase of the Club. Many of their contributors have reached a point where they don't miss their monthly contribution and are likely to continue. This additional stream of income will be invaluable.

[truehibernian]

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Capital Green

The points you make are valid and we completely understand why you feel HSL has not performed as well as FOH.

Our respective organisations started from different positions and even now have differing objectives. The FOH spend a significant sum of money on marketing activities/initiatives and this can be justified with an income level of approx. £120,000 per month. HSL have attempted to direct as much money as possible to the Club over the last two years. At our recent AGM , Members confirmed that they would be happy to see money spent on Marketing activities and in particular a new web site. We have commissioned a Company to carry out this work and we intend to have the new site up and running very soon. Many of the administrative issues we have had in the past will be automated allowing Certificates to be issued automatically. Our brief flirtation with some kind of reward/recognition was not well received by other supporters so we have tended to stand back from that during this period. All of this can of course be changed should our Members so desire.

Thanks for the responses and some clarity

I'm wondering why HSL don't promote itself more, especially after high profile 'milestones' such as the League Championship win, and derby wins, Scottish Cup, etc. We are now approaching the January window which is the ideal time to do some high quality (and correctly pitched) marketing. I've been thoroughly impressed with the way the club's marketing campaigns this last three years (especially season ticket campaigns) - I honestly think you need to tap into their expertise and have a slick, well co-ordinated campaign yourself. For example, and I know this may sound trivial in the grand scheme of things - but on your current site you have people who endorse and support HSL - none of them really relate to the vast support - many are political figures. Can you not get the support of high profile (dare I say celebrity) Hibs fans and really make it more contemporary ? I'm not knocking the likes of Tony Higgins and Iain Gray, etc. - however these names mean nothing to our younger support (although TH did have the best moustache in football ). It needs to appeal to a larger female support too and I honestly don't think you're embracing the success of Hibs Ladies either.

I honestly think you need to move with the times, really market yourselves better, time your promotions and marketing, and tap into an undoubted well of opportunity. It's magnificent money going back into the club and towards the team - this needs to be the focal point of your efforts to attract more members.

[CapitalGreen]

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Lee

This is why it is so important to highlight and debate this now. At some point, in the not too distant future, the FOH funding will be directed into their football budget. The will shortly complete their agreed share of the Stadium funding and thereafter will complete the purchase of the Club. Many of their contributors have reached a point where they don't miss their monthly contribution and are likely to continue. This additional stream of income will be invaluable.

Exactly this. The idea of aspiring to achieve what FOH have will be dismissed by a lot of people simply because it is Hearts. If it was any other rival club our size other than them people would be clamoring for us to try and replicate the income FOH is generating for their club.

[Ozyhibby]

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Exactly this. The idea of aspiring to achieve what FOH have will be dismissed by a lot of people simply because it is Hearts. If it was any other rival club our size other than them people would be clamoring for us to try and replicate the income FOH is generating for their club.

100% correct


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[RoYO!]

My 2 pence and as others have said,

The idea of fan ownership does absolutely nothing for me.

Too many chiefs, in-fighting, power struggles, politics I could go on, I have no desire to have that as the target.

I'm sure people will tell me it won't be at all like that...

[BSEJVT]

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We do try hard not to get too involved in Supporter threads as it can easily lead to misunderstandings which are not intended, however, as this thread relates directly to HSL we hope you don't mind our participation.

Please remember that your Directors are just the same as you , ordinary supporters. We too would like to see much more financial support for our Club, particularly at what has been a difficult period. We are absolutely delighted with what our 1650 Members have been able to achieve and of course wish we could at the very least double this number. That however is up to our Supporters. We , the Supporters must decide for ourselves what we want for our Club and what ambitions we have for our Club. We don't feel HSL has failed since a very substantial sum of money has been injected into the Club and our success on the park has definitely been influenced by this money. If it helps we will respond to the other items raised on this thread.

Thank you for your reply

I am very grateful for your participation, I would like to see and hear a great deal more from you

I am sorry in that I cannot agree that you have not failed.

The nature of that failure and the extent and causes of it we can debate extensively and by PM or private correspondence should you wish.

The simple facts of the matter are though:

1) FOH for all the caveats and different reason supplied by you and others raise approximately 10 times what HSL do.

2) Communication is virtually non existent, promotion worse.

3) Huge tactical errors have been made in allowing this "golden period" for Hibs to slide without tapping into that feel good factor

4) There appears to be no strategy for post full share ownership continuation or even an attempt to engage the support on consultation on the topic.

5) It all seems a bit self congratulatory to me, although huge opportunities have and continue to be missed

6) It gives me no pleasure to criticise good Hibs people doing their bit but we have been down this road before and nothing has changed

7) Those guys lives must come first but there are plenty willing to share the load, contribute in one way or another yet afaik no help has ever been sought.

8) I realise that this is uncomfortable, not least for me in raising this issue in the aggressive manner I have as this isn't me, but I worry greatly that our complacency on this issue will bite us hugely in the backside in future if it isn't addressed.

[Dashing Bob S]

The Hearts scheme was a desperate gambit to save the club.Fair play, they stepped up, and it worked to extent that 'club' now constantly has their hands in the pockets of the supporters, with no realistic and viable timetable for the espoused sweetener of fan ownership. (Do they even bother to mention that over there now?)

Hibs scheme was a more ill-conciveved, half-hearted and casual, rather than desperate way of having the fans input into the club and help out with some extra cash. To that extent, it has been relatively successful.

The fact that we aren't a bunch of desperate lemmings throwing our personal money at Budge to keep the club going is not necessarily a bad thing, I'd venture to suggest. The fact of the matter is that Hearts are asking a lot from their fans, year in and year out. The joke is decidedly on them, and even for creatures as barely sentient as the Yams, it's one that's surely bound to wear thin at some point.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Just goes to show there ain’t no more effective marketing campaign for football clubs that the threat of extinction.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

To put into context (someone enlightened can do the discounted cash flow to convert to today’s money) but at its height the successful Club86 pulled in £100k.

[BSEJVT]

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Lee

This is why it is so important to highlight and debate this now. At some point, in the not too distant future, the FOH funding will be directed into their football budget. The will shortly complete their agreed share of the Stadium funding and thereafter will complete the purchase of the Club. Many of their contributors have reached a point where they don't miss their monthly contribution and are likely to continue. This additional stream of income will be invaluable.

This is exactly my point in stirring this issue up

We act now to improve HSL or get left very far behind

Quite how that doesn't translate into a membership drive by HSL highlighting this rather than my ramblings you should explain

The new website must allow people to sign up online and amend their contributions / direct debit details and should IMO include member get member incentives

[Bishop Hibee]

Along with a few other posters, I have absolutely no interest in owning shares in Hibs or any other entity for that matter. If however for example, a fund was launched to build an indoor full sized pitch at East Mains if it was thought to be a good idea by Lenny etc, then I would look at contributing monthly until the money was raised to build it. I feel I pay enough a month for my ST towards funding the playing squad. I’m pretty sure the prices will increase next season too.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

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Lee

This is why it is so important to highlight and debate this now. At some point, in the not too distant future, the FOH funding will be directed into their football budget. The will shortly complete their agreed share of the Stadium funding and thereafter will complete the purchase of the Club. Many of their contributors have reached a point where they don't miss their monthly contribution and are likely to continue. This additional stream of income will be invaluable.

I'm already a full member of HSL, could you tell me how to start making contributions in my son's name?
I did it for my older son, but can't remember how! Can't see anything in the FAQs, or any way of doing it as direct debit needs to be in my name, any help appreciated as i'm ready to sign up right now.

[OfficialHSL]

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I'm already a full member of HSL, could you tell me how to start making contributions in my son's name?
I did it for my older son, but can't remember how! Can't see anything in the FAQs, or any way of doing it as direct debit needs to be in my name, any help appreciated as i'm ready to sign up right now.

It's fairly straightforward. Go to the "donate" page on our web site www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk and select any amount you are comfortable. Please insert your son's details as the new member but use your own bank details under the Direct Debit part. Many thanks for your continued generosity.

HSL

[Albanian Hibs]

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It's fairly straightforward. Go to the "donate" page on our web site www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk and select any amount you are comfortable. Please insert your son's details as the new member but use your own bank details under the Direct Debit part. Many thanks for your continued generosity.

HSL

I cant get the website to work on my phone.

[Malthibby]

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The Hearts scheme was a desperate gambit to save the club.Fair play, they stepped up, and it worked to extent that 'club' now constantly has their hands in the pockets of the supporters, with no realistic and viable timetable for the espoused sweetener of fan ownership. (Do they even bother to mention that over there now?)

Hibs scheme was a more ill-conciveved, half-hearted and casual, rather than desperate way of having the fans input into the club and help out with some extra cash. To that extent, it has been relatively successful.

The fact that we aren't a bunch of desperate lemmings throwing our personal money at Budge to keep the club going is not necessarily a bad thing, I'd venture to suggest. The fact of the matter is that Hearts are asking a lot from their fans, year in and year out. The joke is decidedly on them, and even for creatures as barely sentient as the Yams, it's one that's surely bound to wear thin at some point.

This more or less where I am (damn that faint praise..), failure is absolutely the wrong word & Hibs have absolutely benefitted from HSL.
I've happily put money in & my club's the better for it. What's not to like?
GG

[LithgaeHibby]

As an HSL supporter I understand that those running the show are Hibs supporters with busy lives just like the rest of us. I'm happy to pay knowing that the funds help the team, though I do think that an email newsletter, maybe every quarter, would help to keep donors in touch with HSL and its activities.

[Jones28]

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We do try hard not to get too involved in Supporter threads as it can easily lead to misunderstandings which are not intended, however, as this thread relates directly to HSL we hope you don't mind our participation.

Please remember that your Directors are just the same as you , ordinary supporters. We too would like to see much more financial support for our Club, particularly at what has been a difficult period. We are absolutely delighted with what our 1650 Members have been able to achieve and of course wish we could at the very least double this number. That however is up to our Supporters. We , the Supporters must decide for ourselves what we want for our Club and what ambitions we have for our Club. We don't feel HSL has failed since a very substantial sum of money has been injected into the Club and our success on the park has definitely been influenced by this money. If it helps we will respond to the other items raised on this thread.

I have been interested in making contributions but, like many others, have never gotten around to it. The problem for me is that there seems to be no real drive behind the campaign. You can use the argument that because they had to Hearts supporters did in their thousands but many Hibbies would be more than happy to pay in, shares or no shares.

So why have you guys not been plastering this all over every possible media outlet?

[Mibbes Aye]

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This more or less where I am (damn that faint praise..), failure is absolutely the wrong word & Hibs have absolutely benefitted from HSL.
I've happily put money in & my club's the better for it. What's not to like?
GG

I'm with you G.

HSL wasn't a crisis intervention in the way that our neighbours needed. I donate and I'm not convinced it works as well as it could but I'm satisfied that Hibs have got some benefit from it.

On the plus side, HSL can only get better in terms of engagement and comunication. There's a real potential positive here for Hibs to build on and it won't take too much to make it happen. As it stands, we've had income that's helped our player budget to some degree - like you say, what's not to like?

[Skol]

FoH worked because it really had to and credit to Hearts they have kept it going. But lets be honest those that are paying are paying over the odds for their football.

I pay more than enough being an ST holder of over 20 years standing and have also had one child for c 12 years with another who had 3 years as ST holders. I have also spent plenty on merchandise.

I wouldnt be comfortable adding another £120 per year in or more.

My view would be different if we found ourselves where Hearts were

[Bostonhibby]

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This more or less where I am (damn that faint praise..), failure is absolutely the wrong word & Hibs have absolutely benefitted from HSL.
I've happily put money in & my club's the better for it. What's not to like?
GG

And me. Never going to knock the HSL idea but some here are talking about a different, absolute funding model without total fan ownership I feel.

This is my preferred option so if people wanted to just own enough of the club to own a meaningful share and be represented at board level, or not do HSL at all then set a scheme up, move from talking to doing.

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[cabbageandribs1875]

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It's fairly straightforward. Go to the "donate" page on our web site www.hiberniansupporters.co.uk and select any amount you are comfortable. Please insert your son's details as the new member but use your own bank details under the Direct Debit part. Many thanks for your continued generosity.

HSL

ta for the link, i look forward to being able to click a button somewhere to find out how much i've contributed so far hopefully lots more set up DD's