Don't put word in to my mouth. If people can afford to put an extra tenner a month in to the club then thats up to them. It should only be an extra, a bonus if you like, rather than an income stream that the club could not operate without .When a professional organisation paying salaries far in excess of what most fans earn starts running itself like a charity then the whole game needs to take a look at itself.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I do pay in to HSL but I do so in the knowledge that it is no longer a route to full fan ownership. We managed to set up a vehicle for fan ownership that can never achieve a majority shareholding.
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22-11-2017 10:14 AM #31
Last edited by marinello59; 22-11-2017 at 10:28 AM.
Every gimmick hungry yob,
Digging gold from rock and roll
Grabs the mic to tell us,
He'll die before he's sold.
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22-11-2017 10:14 AM #32This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I fully expect that the HSL income stream will continue after the 51% deadline is reached, albeit in some other form - I know I have every intention of continuing contributions.
I also fully expect that interest in Hearts ownership will have started to dwindle long before they have acheived anything like %51 ownership - football fans are a fickle lot in my view and if they don't deliver on the pitch then AB could well be left holding the baby.
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22-11-2017 10:16 AM #33This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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22-11-2017 10:20 AM #34
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22-11-2017 10:22 AM #35This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Since it also protects the club from an asset stripping takeover then it is of huge benefit in my book.
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22-11-2017 10:24 AM #36This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
HSL needs a revamp and a proper relaunch, no doubt about it. But the structure of the scheme is exactly what people say they want, which is extra money for the manager.
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22-11-2017 10:25 AM #37
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I would agree with a lot of your post too. Comparing it again to the foh though, I don't think the majority of their donators see it as a way to run the club as fan ownership either, they see it as putting money into the club to help for years to come and for that reason I can see why they are proud of their fan funded main stand (one day).
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22-11-2017 10:25 AM #38This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
- Surviving admin
- Getting promoted
- Getting beat by us
- Building their stand
The reality is both clubs have a portion of their support willing and able to contribute to their clubs over and above what they spend on season tickets. As much as many on here will be loathe to admit, Hearts & FOH are engaging these types of supporters far better than we are and reaping the benefits from doing so.
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22-11-2017 10:26 AM #39
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22-11-2017 10:31 AM #40This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I couldn't give 2 hoots about owning the club, but have contributed to HSL since day 1 and continued after the initial period expired.
It needs a straightforward relaunch to clarify that all and any money goes strictly to NL for players.
Shares "bought" as a result of Farmers largesse is a side issue.
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22-11-2017 10:33 AM #41This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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22-11-2017 10:39 AM #42This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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22-11-2017 10:39 AM #43
The board are enabling HSL to achieve what some posters on here are saying they want - which is simply to directly fund the playing budget via a DD.
The only real difference from what these fans want is that the scheme does something else at the same time. It is trying to safeguard the club for the future by enabling a significant proportion of its shares to be owned by fans to prevent speculative ownership by the likes of Romanov etc once Sir Tom bows out.
By issuing new shares as opposed to selling existing equity the board are doing exactly what posters above want (ie enabling monthly DDs to go directly to NLs budget) BUT AT THE SAME TIME gradually ceding ownership of the club to fans without profiting themselves.
To be frank - it's difficult to imagine how the scheme itself could be better conceived.Last edited by GreenOnions; 22-11-2017 at 11:02 AM.
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22-11-2017 10:43 AM #44This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I've no problem with folk doing what they want with their own money, but mostly because of the desperate state Hearts got themselves into, FoH became this pressure thing that measured the worthiness of fans. They will undoubtedly have people paying into it that can't afford it and every little pressure on stretched family budgets is a bad thing, imo.
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22-11-2017 10:55 AM #45This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Stating the obvious here, but it's of course down to each football fan how they spend their disposable income. What confuses me is the huge gulf in numbers of hearts and hibs fans that chose to use their disposable income supporting their team through HSL/FOH.
Attendances would indicate we have roughly the same number of fans. Is the average yam just more well off? Why are they far, far more willing to support their club through regular DDs?
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22-11-2017 11:08 AM #46This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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22-11-2017 11:17 AM #47This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
There is no way that folk should be brow beaten into such a scheme and I am not advocating such a thing for a second.
There are however people who would like to or be willing to do more to help Hibs if someone would make it easier for them, communicate with them and encourage them to do so.
HSL does none of these things, in my experience it wont even reply to correspondence.
There was I believe a recent meeting, which I couldn't attend as I was out the country.
At the very least they could have reported on that and used that to drive a relaunch.
If my business was being criticised as often as HSL are on here I would engage with those criticising and find out their issues and try and engage their help or at least their ideas to do better.
Its almost as if they don't care enough to do so or aren't resourced enough to engage.
We seem to have a few figureheads lending their name to it and other than that it seems to be run with les vim and vigour than your local bowling club by folk who don't appear to have the time to do more.
It seems to be completely lacking in cohesion, structure or resource.
The prospect of any of those currently involved taking HSL's seat on the board leaves me utterly cold and afraid. (BTW for the avoidance of doubt I don't include the "figureheads" in that statement but by the same token I wouldn't want just a figurehead representing me anyway, I would want someone willing and able to do so and appropriately qualified for the task by other than their "figurehead" status)
Maybe the club put restrictions on them promoting themselves (although I cant see why they would)
I have never, not once, seen anyone or anything from HSL at ER trying to recruit new members
Even leaflets at the turnstiles would be something
IMO HSL needs to communicate better is full intentions, short medium and long term.
If it is not the vehicle to enable those who don't wish fan ownership or who want to continue funding beyond maximum fan ownership being achieved then we need to come up with one and pronto.
I wont sit back and in years to come listen to my grandchildren ask me why we seldom beat Hearts (if the worm turns again) and glibly tell them that I couldn't be bothered agitating for an organisation that would have enabled us to do so.
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22-11-2017 11:22 AM #48This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I know they had their "event" and probably felt they had to, but a willing volunteer is better than a dozen conscripts.
I would guess its a momentum thing, nothing succeeds like success.
They are rightly lauded for their efforts and as others have said are kept far more involved./ informed.
I have no doubt that HSL suffers from its very low profile and engagement and partly from the fact that as so few contribute it to it there is a lack of buzz or awareness around it and it is never a topic of conversation.
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22-11-2017 11:26 AM #49This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
To make things worse for the buyer the voting system adopted by HSL for the shares they hold can mean less control. Unless the voting structure has been changed lately under HSL rules if 50.1% of members voting vote one way, 100% of the shares HSL hold are voted that way. The 49.9% of voters may agree with the buyer but their portion of the HSL overall shareholding will be voted against.
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22-11-2017 11:27 AM #50
The bottom line is that HSL was conceived to allow fans to own shares. Nothing more and nothing less. The money for those shares goes direct to the club.
HSL was not set up as a fund to organise gift donations. That is something entirely different. If fans want that sort of vehicle, it is up to the fans to create it. As it stands at the minute there is nothing to stop individual fans from setting up a DD - the recipient being Hibernian FC.
There are many ways for fans to get money into the club. A voluntary surcharge on season tickets or match tickets for example would probably be fairly simple to organise, although it would need the club's input into that.
A separate bank account in the club's name could be created to enable fans to donate at their leisure, whether direct debit or one off payments.
For those that want to contribute, stop moaning and blaming HSL, do something about it. You could start with a poll to gauge interest. I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
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22-11-2017 11:30 AM #51This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
I guess bigging up their scheme as something grander/bigger than HSL is something I'd expect them to naturally do as it's all they have left in the all important being big department.
The main difficulty I see is how we interpret FOH as being something that will inevitably make them stronger on the pitch. It's not where the bulk of the money is destined, however much Budge directs it to other areas, in the end and later than planned it has to pay her back.
In future the yams might own the club and may want to continue some sort of voluntary ongoing scheme where the money goes direct to the football side.
Whenever HSL reaches it's natural end for some or as an alternative we could easily set up another fund to match what we think FOH is doing. Just spend it differently. Less money could maintain a better football advantage.
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"I did not need any persuasion to play for such a great club, the Hibs result is still one of the first I look for"
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22-11-2017 11:30 AM #52This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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22-11-2017 11:36 AM #53
I have no interest to buy shares in the club, I buy my season ticket and hope that the club invest the money wisely in the squad, I would be up for paying £10 pm DD if it is going directly to the playing squad.
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22-11-2017 11:50 AM #54
For those of you willing to pay towards the playing fund with no return, Leith Links does that and it also gets kids along to games.
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22-11-2017 11:54 AM #55This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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22-11-2017 11:55 AM #56
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22-11-2017 11:56 AM #57
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22-11-2017 11:56 AM #58
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22-11-2017 11:58 AM #59This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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"I did not need any persuasion to play for such a great club, the Hibs result is still one of the first I look for"
Sir Matt Busby
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22-11-2017 12:01 PM #60This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Not looking for an argument just trying to highlight the fundamental difference between the schemes.
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"I did not need any persuasion to play for such a great club, the Hibs result is still one of the first I look for"
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