Hibs Accounts for Last Season Post Loss of nearly £300 000

[NAE NOOKIE]

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The postie has been and nothing but advertising flyers

It seems barmy Hibs having to send out hard copies of the accounts .... if they have to post 2000 copies 2nd class that's over 1000 quid, not including printing costs. I presume its a legal requirement?

[Ozyhibby]

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Iirc the total loss is circa £877,000 for the three years. Not bad at all as hertz lost £1.2m in their one year in the championship and I'm sure we will return a profit this season with the attendances at er this season.

Doesn’t mean that’s all we missed out on though. Scottish Cup minimised those losses.


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[ancient hibee]

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It seems barmy Hibs having to send out hard copies of the accounts .... if they have to post 2000 copies 2nd class that's over 1000 quid, not including printing costs. I presume its a legal requirement?

It’s not a legal requirement.Plenty companies give shareholders the option of hard copy or internet.

[hibby6270]

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It seems barmy Hibs having to send out hard copies of the accounts .... if they have to post 2000 copies 2nd class that's over 1000 quid, not including printing costs. I presume its a legal requirement?

It is a legal requirement for all shareholders to be provided with a copy of the accounts but as ancienthibee states, they can be provided electronically as well as paper hard copies. You’ll probably find that large companies with tens of thousands shareholders are the ones more likely to offer a choice.

That said I’m happy to get paper from Hibs. Last year’s was great with the front cover depicting our Scottish Cup win. One for memorabilia collectors out there. Hoping this year’s will refer to winning the Championship.

[CropleyWasGod]

Just sat down with my (paper) copy of the accounts. Here are my highlights:-

1. we are monitoring the potential impact of Brexit. Cheers, Boris.

2. we had no need to expand on our Going Concern position. (For those who like to point-score , HMFC had to. )

3. our Operating Loss was actually £739k. That was reduced by the gain on player sales to the reported figure of £263k

4. we make £5k a year in interest

5. still no wage for Rod.

6. we are paying £10k tax on property income. This puzzles me... what property income do we have? Do we sub-let part of EM? It's not separately disclosed in the accounts, and I think it should be. (it would be around £50k).

7. we also have to pay £6k tax for a prior year. That suggests that we had a wee problem with HMRC. It would also explain why our tax fees doubled. Sharks.

8. debtors (money due in) has quadrupled. I'm guessing that most of this is down to money due from NF for JC. (will ask at the AGM)

9. still paying HFC £24k for the ticket office.

10. we paid £5k to the Community Foundation, but also charged them £9k.

11. the JC money seems to be about £520k. Before the frothing starts, that's possibly the initial payment, and there may be further instalments as well as the usual add-ons, if they apply.

[Mikey]

Cheers CWG.

[CB_NO3]

Seems a big loss considering we have had excellent cup runs over the last few years with added ticket and TV money.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Seems a big loss considering we have had excellent cup runs over the last few years with added ticket and TV money.

We only had 1 Cup run in that season.
No games against Rangers.
No parachute payment.

All of those contributed to the loss.

[Ozyhibby]

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Just sat down with my (paper) copy of the accounts. Here are my highlights:-

1. we are monitoring the potential impact of Brexit. Cheers, Boris.

2. we had no need to expand on our Going Concern position. (For those who like to point-score , HMFC had to. )

3. our Operating Loss was actually £739k. That was reduced by the gain on player sales to the reported figure of £263k

4. we make £5k a year in interest

5. still no wage for Rod.

6. we are paying £10k tax on property income. This puzzles me... what property income do we have? Do we sub-let part of EM? It's not separately disclosed in the accounts, and I think it should be. (it would be around £50k).

7. we also have to pay £6k tax for a prior year. That suggests that we had a wee problem with HMRC. It would also explain why our tax fees doubled. Sharks.

8. debtors (money due in) has quadrupled. I'm guessing that most of this is down to money due from NF for JC. (will ask at the AGM)

9. still paying HFC £24k for the ticket office.

10. we paid £5k to the Community Foundation, but also charged them £9k.

11. the JC money seems to be about £520k. Before the frothing starts, that's possibly the initial payment, and there may be further instalments as well as the usual add-ons, if they apply.

Total speculation but is it possible the couple of flats we own and give to players have had the way they are assessed for tax changed? Just a guess.


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[ACLeith]

We have 2 Directors who are remunerated (CEO and FD)?

Highest paid Director got £117,000 in the 12 months, this compares to £134,317 in the 11 months to June 2016. This seems to represent approximately 20% cut?

I may be talking pants (is that a technical accountancy term BTW?) but surely that can't be right CWG or CG?

[truehibernian]

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We only had 1 Cup run in that season.
No games against Rangers.
No parachute payment.

All of those contributed to the loss.

Whilst also paying Top 4 (SPFL) type wages and salaries CWG. I think Lennon hinted when he was interviewed after winning the title that he could sense at times the stress that Leeann and George Craig were under at certain times in the season - shows how crucial it was to gain automatic promotion and get out the Championship.

Cheers for the insight as ever. Does your debtors query hint that the JC monies may be in instalments ?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Total speculation but is it possible the couple of flats we own and give to players have had the way they are assessed for tax changed? Just a guess.


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The only thing I can think of in that connection is that the staff involved have a deduction from their wages as their contribution to the costs. If that's the case, that is "income from property" IMO. It doesn't, though, explain why it hasn't been shown separately.

[CropleyWasGod]

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We have 2 Directors who are remunerated (CEO and FD)?

Highest paid Director got £117,000 in the 12 months, this compares to £134,317 in the 11 months to June 2016. This seems to represent approximately 20% cut?

I may be talking pants (is that a technical accountancy term BTW?) but surely that can't be right CWG or CG?

The last sentence in that note talks about a performance-related bonus. Presumably LD got a decent wedge for us winning the SC, or for something else in her contract.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Whilst also paying Top 4 (SPFL) type wages and salaries CWG. I think Lennon hinted when he was interviewed after winning the title that he could sense at times the stress that Leeann and George Craig were under at certain times in the season - shows how crucial it was to gain automatic promotion and get out the Championship.

Cheers for the insight as ever. Does your debtors query hint that the JC monies may be in instalments ?

I do think it's connected.

The figure I calculated for JC is ex VAT, and once we add on the VAT, that might explain the increase in debtors. However, the ex-VAT amount seems low, which makes me think it's the first instalment.

I'm never sure whether clubs quote ex-VAT or inc-VAT when it comes to player sales. I guess they choose whichever suits. I once caught Jim Gray out on that when he was trying to placate people over the sale of....either Collins or Kane, I think.

[WhileTheChief..]

Property income from the NHS hub thing maybe?

[brog]

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Whilst also paying Top 4 (SPFL) type wages and salaries CWG. I think Lennon hinted when he was interviewed after winning the title that he could sense at times the stress that Leeann and George Craig were under at certain times in the season - shows how crucial it was to gain automatic promotion and get out the Championship.

Cheers for the insight as ever. Does your debtors query hint that the JC monies may be in instalments ?

JC was transferred only a week or so before the end date for the accounts. The transfer fee could be specific instalments on specific dates or possibly Forest paid so much down with the commitment to pay the balance pretty quickly, say by end of August. Certainly when I saw the increase in debtors my 1st thought was same as the guru that is CWG. 😀

[CropleyWasGod]

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Property income from the NHS hub thing maybe?

That wasn't in place in that year, and still isn't, I think.

[ACLeith]

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The last sentence in that note talks about a performance-related bonus. Presumably LD got a decent wedge for us winning the SC, or for something else in her contract.

Thanks, I missed that. Hate to think LD had a pay cut

[truehibernian]

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JC was transferred only a week or so before the end date for the accounts. The transfer fee could be specific instalments on specific dates or possibly Forest paid so much down with the commitment to pay the balance pretty quickly, say by end of August. Certainly when I saw the increase in debtors my 1st thought was same as the guru that is CWG. 😀

Would Rotherham be due us any money for Stubbs and Doolan brog ? Or would that be in last year's accounts ?

[ancient hibee]

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Seems a big loss considering we have had excellent cup runs over the last few years with added ticket and TV money.

Don’t forget that the operating loss figure of £739K is arrived at after around £850K of depreciation and amortisation .

[Jack]

6. Property income.

I think we lease the unused parts of East Mains for agricultural purposes.

[crash]

A lot of guessing and speculation about the accounts. Surely they could be a bit more transparent. For example we reported a Turnover of £7.7M, no breakdown of this figure as far as I can see, what was the gate and matchday income? How much did we make from Retail? What was our commercial income? How much did we make from TV income? How much did we get from Hibs Lotto? What did we make from cup runs/Prize money?
These figures should be published.

[Stuart93]

Still can't believe we sold Cummings so cheaply, really shot ourselves in the foot

[CB_NO3]

If we play Rangers, Celtic and Hearts twice at home that also contributes to over half a million a season. We were lucky if we made that in the total of last season from away fans.

[Smartie]

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Still can't believe we sold Cummings so cheaply, really shot ourselves in the foot

When you see the effect that being in the Championship has had on our finances, I think it highlights the fact that it was good business to get Cummings signed back up to get the goals to get us promoted.

If the price of that was a slightly lower transfer fee then we just need to live with that.

I'm not at all unhappy with how Hibs played that one.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Still can't believe we sold Cummings so cheaply, really shot ourselves in the foot

We don't know how much we sold him for.

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[anewlove]

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I think Lennon hinted when he was interviewed after winning the title that he could sense at times the stress that Leeann and George Craig were under at certain times in the season - shows how crucial it was to gain automatic promotion and get out the Championship

I was at an event on Tuesday night - an audience with Leeann Dempster - and she advised that had we not been promoted last season she would have resigned her position. A failure to gain promotion in her three years would have been an "embarrassment".

FWIW she also said that ticket sales make up a third of Hibernian's income.

[Ringothedog]

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Still can't believe we sold Cummings so cheaply, really shot ourselves in the foot

How much do you think we sold him for?

[brog]

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Would Rotherham be due us any money for Stubbs and Doolan brog ? Or would that be in last year's accounts ?

Good question. I would think however that the fee would have been in last year's accounts. He left a bit earlier than JC & there's not usually performance related add ons or instalments in manager transfers. In fact Rotherham may think we owe them money! ☺

[danhibees1875]

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Still can't believe we sold Cummings so cheaply, really shot ourselves in the foot

The way I see it, in summer of 2016, he had 1 year left on his deal and would have left for nothing on 2017 and there would have been disruption in the second half of the season as rumours of pre-contracts started flying about. We got him signed up, I would guess with a formal or gentleman's agreement that we'd let him go in the summer for "cheap" instead of "nothing" and that's what happened.


We got him for free, he scored 69 goals, he helped win us the cup and get promoted, then we sold him for a profit. If that's shooting ourselves in the foot then I can't wait to see what happens when we get it right.