Hibs Accounts for Last Season Post Loss of nearly £300 000

[CropleyWasGod]

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I don't think there's a connection but I do wonder how a self-proclaimed community club can justify charging its own charity £22k.

I had a look at this earlier this year, and I think I came to the conclusion that it was for admin costs of the charity that HMFC had incurred, and had recharged to the charity. If the charity has been funded by a third-party for those costs, then it's understandable. Big IF, though.

[Caversham Green]

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I had a look at this earlier this year, and I think I came to the conclusion that it was for admin costs of the charity that HMFC had incurred, and had recharged to the charity. If the charity has been funded by a third-party for those costs, then it's understandable. Big IF, though.

According to the note this year HoMFC invoiced the charity £21,859. I know their grasp of the English language seems rather tenuous but that doesn't suggest a recharge to me.

[CropleyWasGod]

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According to the note this year HoMFC invoiced the charity £21,859. I know their grasp of the English language seems rather tenuous but that doesn't suggest a recharge to me.

Yeah, I see that. I think I looked at it from the Big Hearts accounts POV.

Hire of facilities? The type of costs that an external funder would be expecting to pay for? (not that i'm trying to exonerate them here.... )

[Bostonhibby]

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The amounts from FOH and HSL don't affect the profit/loss figures. HoMFC's anonymous donation does, and without it they made a loss of £221k after player sales of £214k. If our loss is after the sale of JC it's actually a bit concerning depending on how much we got from that sale.

As an aside, Hearts continue to take money from their charity - nearly 22k this time.

How might they be making money from their charity this time around?

I'm sure it'll be legal but if your as committed to these charities as they claim to be, and having bumped them before why not give every financial benefit to the charity?

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[andybev1]

In response to someone asking where info can be found.
I have not looked into it properly but companys house always have info on businesses and hibs is included, here https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/SC005323


financial statement from year ending june 2016
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/d...oo7r%2FK0AU%3D

[Callyballybe]

Bit confused here, the £2mil payment Hearts got from UEFA is purely down to them having one game in Europe (or was it two?) during the qualifying rounds of the Europa League? That sounds alot of money just for the preliminary rounds - of which we were in as well. Would we therefore not expect to see a reasonable amount (compared to that anyway) for our round against Brondby?

I know that all SPFL teams got approximately £300k for Celtic's participation in the Champions League last year. However, even if this was included in the 2mil, that's still a fair whack for them to receive.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Bit confused here, the £2mil payment Hearts got from UEFA is purely down to them having one game in Europe (or was it two?) during the qualifying rounds of the Europa League? That sounds alot of money just for the preliminary rounds - of which we were in as well. Would we therefore not expect to see a reasonable amount (compared to that anyway) for our round against Brondby?

I know that all SPFL teams got approximately £300k for Celtic's participation in the Champions League last year. However, even if this was included in the 2mil, that's still a fair whack for them to receive.

They had 3 games in that period. Presumably, the 4th (which was in June 16) is also included in these accounts.

But yeah, there's obviously money to be made.

[Caversham Green]

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How might they be making money from their charity this time around?

I'm sure it'll be legal but if your as committed to these charities as they claim to be, and having bumped them before why not give every financial benefit to the charity?

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Exactly. No doubt the charge is legitimate but £22k is a huge sum to most charities - a company with an £11m turnover charging that amount to its own charity seems pretty low to me.

[Callyballybe]

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They had 3 games in that period. Presumably, the 4th (which was in June 16) is also included in these accounts.

But yeah, there's obviously money to be made.

Thanks CWG. Apologies, I meant one or two rounds in Europe rather than one or two games.

With our preliminary round against Brondby, I'd be interested to see how much we received. But as it was in July, does this mean it won't come through on this years accounts?

Does make you think though; if they had actually managed to get past the Maltese team, how much more would they have gotten from UEFA? And just how important getting third this year could be if 4 games in the qualifying rounds is returning that amount of prize money.

[Bostonhibby]

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Exactly. No doubt the charge is legitimate but £22k is a huge sum to most charities - a company with an £11m turnover charging that amount to its own charity seems pretty low to me.

Probably made the decision that if they can't just take the cash and use it as they please they'll charge them for something instead.

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[truehibernian]

Am I right in saying the difference in prize money from being top 6 in the SPFL and winners in the Championship can be as much as £1 million -£1.5 million ?

I think getting out the Championship is a financial god send, but also think we've done really well to cut our cloth, back the team, and still be in rude health

[scoopyboy]

Should be remembered that we paid back £500,000 of "our debt".

We pay back £41,667 per month standing order or direct debit.

Interest free of course.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Should be remembered that we paid back £500,000 of "our debt".

We pay back £41,667 per month standing order or direct debit.

Interest free of course.

That doesn't affect our profit, though.

But we should celebrate the fact that we are decreasing our debt, whereas HMFC are increasing theirs.

[GlesgaeHibby]

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Am I right in saying the difference in prize money from being top 6 in the SPFL and winners in the Championship can be as much as £1 million -£1.5 million ?

I think getting out the Championship is a financial god send, but also think we've done really well to cut our cloth, back the team, and still be in rude health

IIRC, I think the prize money for winning the championship is around £500k and nearer £2m for 3rd place in Premiership.

[Mikey]

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Once they drop through the letterbox I'll see if I can scan them in and upload them.

Nowt in the post today.

[scoopyboy]

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That doesn't affect our profit, though.

But we should celebrate the fact that we are decreasing our debt, whereas HMFC are increasing theirs.

But if we hadn't paid back that £500,000 would we not have finished £200,000 in front rather than £300,000 behind?

Not very good with balance sheets as you can probably tell CWG.

Anyhow at least we are due £500,000 less than at this time last year.

[JimBHibees]

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IIRC, I think the prize money for winning the championship is around £500k and nearer £2m for 3rd place in Premiership.

I would be surprised if winning the championship was as much as that. Can remember I think it was the Ross county chairman/owner indicating they only got 60k for winning it? assuming there has been some changes in between time

[CropleyWasGod]

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But if we hadn't paid back that £500,000 would we not have finished £200,000 in front rather than £300,000 behind?

Not very good with balance sheets as you can probably tell CWG.

Anyhow at least we are due £500,000 less than at this time last year.

Not in profit terms.

Out of our profit, or loss, we have to find the repayments on the loan. So, in crude cash terms, we're now £800k down. However, we also have the shares money being paid in to compensate for that; that doesn't affect profit either. How much that is, I don't know yet, until I see the accounts; however, RP's statement tells me it isn't quite enough to cover the loss and the loan. I'm guessing about £700k.

So, I reckon we're about £100k down in cash terms.

[DarlingtonHibee]

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Not in profit terms.

Out of our profit, or loss, we have to find the repayments on the loan. So, in crude cash terms, we're now £800k down. However, we also have the shares money being paid in to compensate for that; that doesn't affect profit either. How much that is, I don't know yet, until I see the accounts; however, RP's statement tells me it isn't quite enough to cover the loss and the loan. I'm guessing about £700k.

So, I reckon we're about £100k down in cash terms.

Thanks for the update, it helps me to try and understand it!

[scoopyboy]

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Not in profit terms.

Out of our profit, or loss, we have to find the repayments on the loan. So, in crude cash terms, we're now £800k down. However, we also have the shares money being paid in to compensate for that; that doesn't affect profit either. How much that is, I don't know yet, until I see the accounts; however, RP's statement tells me it isn't quite enough to cover the loss and the loan. I'm guessing about £700k.

So, I reckon we're about £100k down in cash terms.

Thanks CWG.

[Keith_M]

Last season was our third in the championship, so no parachute payment or Cup Finals to make up for the reduced TV and League Position income.

We're now on record crowds for the second season in a row, so higher income through the gate, plus we'll get more TV and League Placement money (hopefully finish in the top 4)


I'd image we'll do a lot better financially this season than last.. Also, we have a completed Stadium and our own Training Complex (not rented, unlike some), so a decent level of assets as well.

[seanshow]

That interest free loan arranged with Sir Tom must be down to £3.5 or £3m by now?

[CropleyWasGod]

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That interest free loan arranged with Sir Tom must be down to £3.5 or £3m by now?

The accounts will show £4.4m. As of now, November, it will be £4.2m.

[Ringothedog]

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The accounts will show £4.4m. As of now, November, it will be £4.2m.

Have we not been paying back longer than that?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Have we not been paying back longer than that?

Bollocks. Ignore me.

Right..the accounts will show just over £4m. As of now, it's about £3.8m.

[DarlingtonHibee]

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Bollocks. Ignore me.

Right..the accounts will show just over £4m. As of now, it's about £3.8m.

Cwg, does cash balance mean money in the bank, £3.5m,sorry if it's a stupid question!

[CropleyWasGod]

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Cwg, does cash balance mean money in the bank, £3.5m,sorry if it's a stupid question!

It does.

It reflects the increase in ST sales for the current season. As Rod says, about £1m up (at that point) on the previous year.

Although we had the money at that point, though, that doesn't affect the income shown in these accounts. They will be a part of the current season's accounts.

[DarlingtonHibee]

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It does.

It reflects the increase in ST sales for the current season. As Rod says, about £1m up (at that point) on the previous year.

Although we had the money at that point, though, that doesn't affect the income shown in these accounts. They will be a part of the current season's accounts.

Sorry 2nd question, is it beneficial to continue to pay STF monthly for p/l benefit?

[CropleyWasGod]

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Sorry 2nd question, is it beneficial to continue to pay STF monthly for p/l benefit?

It makes no difference to the P and L how we pay him. From a cash-flow point of view, monthly seems sensible; we spread it out over the year.

[DarlingtonHibee]

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It makes no difference to the P and L how we pay him. From a cash-flow point of view, monthly seems sensible; we spread it out over the year.

Thanks