Hearts’ unnamed benefactor

[jacomo]

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Don't believe everything you hear and don't listen to things you hear when you are pished

Folk with that type of money didn't acquire it by doling it out anonymously to organisations they have no real involvement with.

They give it to charities and are most like to be seen as the good people they are for doing so.

Anybody giving serious monies to a Football Team is off their chump, you only have to look at the abuse STF has received over the year for not bankrolling Hibs further.

The point most folk continuously miss over this entire issue in amongst the smokescreen of anonymous benefactors is how much FOH have given them.

Even the stupidest arse in the land will finally get something to work eventually, when they do the FOH monies will give them a huge financial advantage over us unless we step up to the plate collectively

That is why the continuing lethargy over HSL and snails pace progress on anything that HSL do is so damaging to us in the long term.

Hibs: fans currently own around 1/3 of the club.

How does that compare with Hearts again?

Your constant running down of HSL is a bit much. I'm sure there are improvements to be made but our situation is not comparable to Hearts, who faced the very real possibility of going bust.

[Mikey]

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That is why the continuing lethargy over HSL and snails pace progress on anything that HSL do is so damaging to us in the long term.

One of the problems that HSL has is as soon as they pop their heads above the parapet there's a small group of Hibs fans waiting to bash them back down again.

[Tyler Durden]

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...sits on hands....

😂😂😂

[Tyler Durden]

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The point most folk continuously miss over this entire issue in amongst the smokescreen of anonymous benefactors is how much FOH have given them.

Even the stupidest arse in the land will finally get something to work eventually, when they do the FOH monies will give them a huge financial advantage over us unless we step up to the plate collectively

That is why the continuing lethargy over HSL and snails pace progress on anything that HSL do is so damaging to us in the long term.

This huge advantage isn't happening any time soon though is it? At current rate of donation, the next 3 years will likely go towards the stand with another few years worth then paying off Budge.

[BSEJVT]

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One of the problems that HSL has is as soon as they pop their heads above the parapet there's a small group of Hibs fans waiting to bash them back down again.

The problem is I don't see them popping their heads up.

I want us to be more successful than FOH but its not happening

I changed banks 4 months ago and e-mailed them to send me a new direct debit mandate

Haven't heard a cheap

Are we just meant to sit back and pretend its brilliant , good or even acceptable when it isn't?

I couldn't give a rats arse about fan ownership although I have shares and have completed my HSL pledge and beyond

I want us to dominate those ****ers forever, sitting patting ourselves on the back that we own more shares than they do doesn't cut it for me.

I want HSL to continue to pump money into Hibs long after we have bought all the shares we can

[Waxy]

It’ll be the pink and yellow peolpe from Queensferry.

[Wembley67]

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I heard it was 3 Directors, all Rugby wallahs, from Hearts supporting families who work at Baillie Gifford and have donated over £6 million between them, for the new Stand.

I find that pretty hard to believe but you never know. These people are all financial savvy and would not be *****ing their kids inheritance into a football club that's for sure.

[Keith_M]

You know, it's just possible that there is absolutely nothing dodgy about this and the person just wants to give to his favourite club without any fanfare.

[Wembley67]

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You know, it's just possible that there is absolutely nothing dodgy about this and the person just wants to give to his favourite club without any fanfare.

Exactly. Folk are just looking for holes when it could be clear and simple, if true I for one am pretty jealous we haven't been given a gift of that size!

[BSEJVT]

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This huge advantage isn't happening any time soon though is it? At current rate of donation, the next 3 years will likely go towards the stand with another few years worth then paying off Budge.

So do you suggest we wait until its too late and we are playing catch up again?

We have our foot on their throats on the park just now, its time to press down hard

Sicken them once and for all and watch the d/d's dry up whilst we push on

[Brooster]

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So do you suggest we wait until its too late and we are playing catch up again?

We have our foot on their throats on the park just now, its time to press down hard

Sicken them once and for all and watch the d/d's dry up whilst we push on

Spot on. Now is the time for Hibs and HSL people to push on with HSL. There's massive potential here....lets tap in to it. We could easily be contributing £1m a season.

[hibby6270]

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Exactly. Folk are just looking for holes when it could be clear and simple, if true I for one am pretty jealous we haven't been given a gift of that size!

That’s not really the case though is it.
STF has been our benefactor over a number of years. OK. Maybe his contribution hasn’t been a ‘gift’ but it has been donated in proper legal business transaction that has allowed us to complete the build on both our stadium and training centre. That should never be forgotten.

Difference between us and them is that we pay our way day to day at an operational level without the aid of external debt or benefactor’s gifts. A far better state of affairs than having to currently rely on hand outs from rich fans or monthly contributions disguising themselves as being donations to ongoing share/club ownership.

FoH may well achieve it’s aim some time in the future but until then their fans will continue to pay out for what seems to be ostensibly working capital. From what I understand of accounting we are pretty much self sufficient. Making a small loss in a year is only a position we are at on one specific day in the year.

It’s no secret that HSL is contributing to fund our day to day operations rather than funding large capital projects like building a stand or ground extensions,, etc. A much better position to be in than Hertz.

To explain, both clubs latest figures on 30 June 2017 showed a profit and a loss.
Now if Hertz were to pay out bills of say £3m on 1st July, would that suddenly make them a loss making concern to the tune of half a million? NO!
Similarly, if we wee to revive a debtor payment of half a million on 1st July, would we suddenly be in profit? NO - not in accounting terms because there is still 364 days of the financial year’s trading to go before you declare profit or loss.

Sorry to go an so much, but sometimes we get to hung up of the figure of Profit or Loss, when the more important figures are Turnover and Costs. Ideally they should be increasing and decreasing respectively, where possible, and are a better indicator of how a business is doing.

I’m sure if any of the above is incorrect, someone will pipe up but it’s how I understand both clubs current position to be and I know who I’d rather be backing. GGTTH

[The Tubs]

What happened to Jimmy Saville's estate?

[Mikey]

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What happened to Jimmy Saville's estate?

Failed its MOT.

[Bostonhibby]

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You know, it's just possible that there is absolutely nothing dodgy about this and the person just wants to give to his favourite club without any fanfare.

Where were they just before administration? If they loved them that much they could have helped them avoid it and the stigma that still follows them around?

Maybe they only recently won the lottery?

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[CropleyWasGod]

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Where were they just before administration? If they loved them that much they could have helped them avoid it and the stigma that still follows them around?

Maybe they only recently won the lottery?

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They would have had to donate 10 times as much.

[Bostonhibby]

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They would have had to donate 10 times as much.

I'll set them up and you knock them in the back of the net.

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[CropleyWasGod]

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That’s not really the case though is it.
STF has been our benefactor over a number of years. OK. Maybe his contribution hasn’t been a ‘gift’ but it has been donated in proper legal business transaction that has allowed us to complete the build on both our stadium and training centre. That should never be forgotten.

Difference between us and them is that we pay our way day to day at an operational level without the aid of external debt or benefactor’s gifts. A far better state of affairs than having to currently rely on hand outs from rich fans or monthly contributions disguising themselves as being donations to ongoing share/club ownership.

FoH may well achieve it’s aim some time in the future but until then their fans will continue to pay out for what seems to be ostensibly working capital. From what I understand of accounting we are pretty much self sufficient. Making a small loss in a year is only a position we are at on one specific day in the year.

It’s no secret that HSL is contributing to fund our day to day operations rather than funding large capital projects like building a stand or ground extensions,, etc. A much better position to be in than Hertz.

To explain, both clubs latest figures on 30 June 2017 showed a profit and a loss.
Now if Hertz were to pay out bills of say £3m on 1st July, would that suddenly make them a loss making concern to the tune of half a million? NO!
Similarly, if we wee to revive a debtor payment of half a million on 1st July, would we suddenly be in profit? NO - not in accounting terms because there is still 364 days of the financial year’s trading to go before you declare profit or loss.

Sorry to go an so much, but sometimes we get to hung up of the figure of Profit or Loss, when the more important figures are Turnover and Costs. Ideally they should be increasing and decreasing respectively, where possible, and are a better indicator of how a business is doing.

I’m sure if any of the above is incorrect, someone will pipe up but it’s how I understand both clubs current position to be and I know who I’d rather be backing. GGTTH

Ok, I'll start.

1. the first highlighted bit is wrong. Companies of our type and size will prepare monthly accounts and budgets. Hence they will know if they are profitable or not throughout the year, not just on one arbitrary date necessary for legal and other requirements.

2. the second highlight. That's not correct. HSL's contribution is to the football operation, not working capital (unlike FOH as was)

3. the third highlight. Not sure what you mean by that. Hearts showed a trading loss and an operating profit. Our accounts aren't in the public domain yet. It looks like an operating loss, but have you seen more than that?

4. what exactly is Profit if it's not a comparison between Turnover and Costs?

5. I do agree with your last statement.

[CropleyWasGod]

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I'll set them up and you knock them in the back of the net.

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If it's 2 inches out, and the nearest defender is 30 yards away with a gammy leg and a heart condition, I might just.

[CB_NO3]

So for the non accountants here. Does the 6.5m benefactor get paid back? Or is that free money?

[CropleyWasGod]

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So for the non accountants here. Does the 6.5m benefactor get paid back? Or is that free money?

It's £2.5m.

And naw....it's been spent.

[Ozyhibby]

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You know, it's just possible that there is absolutely nothing dodgy about this and the person just wants to give to his favourite club without any fanfare.

It’s not just possible, it’s probable. Aberdeen and Partick Thistle have had similar free gifts recently. My issue is more with the lack of transparency given what has gone on in Scottish football in the past.



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[Sammy7nil]

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It’s not just possible, it’s probable. Aberdeen and Partick Thistle have had similar free gifts recently. My issue is more with the lack of transparency given what has gone on in Scottish football in the past.



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My money is on any one from Alec Salmond, Lord Foulkes or the Budgie

[hibby6270]

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Ok, I'll start.

1. the first highlighted bit is wrong. Companies of our type and size will prepare monthly accounts and budgets. Hence they will know if they are profitable or not throughout the year, not just on one arbitrary date necessary for legal and other requirements.

2. the second highlight. That's not correct. HSL's contribution is to the football operation, not working capital (unlike FOH as was)

3. the third highlight. Not sure what you mean by that. Hearts showed a trading loss and an operating profit. Our accounts aren't in the public domain yet. It looks like an operating loss, but have you seen more than that?

4. what exactly is Profit if it's not a comparison between Turnover and Costs?

5. I do agree with your last statement.

Thanks CWG.
I’ll admit I don’t have a full accounting qualification. Did do a few exams (many, many years ago) that included accountancy as part of an overall qualification, so thought I had a wee bit of knowledge. Maybe not enough though eh?

The point I was trying to get across is that profit or loss isn’t the be all and end all in indicating how a business is performing. Some folks focus on that figure as being the case, when underlying figures need to be analysed to understand the full story. Figures published show the position on that specific date and as you say, they do change on a day to day/month by month basis.

On your points, I’m a bit confused on some.

1. Agreed
2. Didn’t appreciate that working capital was different to operational running. If your WC isn’t converted to cash flow, then you can’t operate effectively?
3. Operating/trading profit/loss? Are they not the same basically but one takes into account tax due? Haven’t seen our full accounts yet. They’re “in the post”.
4. Agreed but what I mean was as long as Turnover is increasing at a similar rate to costs (or decreasing if that is the case), then the business is reasonably sound. Ideally increased turnover and decreased costs is best but maintaining the cost/income ratio is good.
5. Totally agree!!

[CropleyWasGod]

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Thanks CWG.
I’ll admit I don’t have a full accounting qualification. Did do a few exams (many, many years ago) that included accountancy as part of an overall qualification, so thought I had a wee bit of knowledge. Maybe not enough though eh?

The point I was trying to get across is that profit or loss isn’t the be all and end all in indicating how a business is performing. Some folks focus on that figure as being the case, when underlying figures need to be analysed to understand the full story. Figures published show the position on that specific date and as you say, they do change on a day to day/month by month basis.

On your points, I’m a bit confused on some.

1. Agreed
2. Didn’t appreciate that working capital was different to operational running. If your WC isn’t converted to cash flow, then you can’t operate effectively? The HSL money is funding the "football operations". Broadly, this seems to be the funding of players, rather than (say) the insurance on East Mains or Rod's moustache trimmer.
3. Operating/trading profit/loss? Are they not the same basically but one takes into account tax due? Haven’t seen our full accounts yet. They’re “in the post”. Hearts made a loss on their trading, but with the donation that became an operating profit. You're right, though, that these terms often get conflated
4. Agreed but what I mean was as long as Turnover is increasing at a similar rate to costs (or decreasing if that is the case), then the business is reasonably sound. Ideally increased turnover and decreased costs is best but maintaining the cost/income ratio is good.
5. Totally agree!!

.

[erin go bragh]

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Exactly. Folk are just looking for holes when it could be clear and simple, if true I for one am pretty jealous we haven't been given a gift of that size!

Whatever happened to that poster who was on here willing to give Hibs a million bucks .

[Tyler Durden]

[QUOTE=BSEJVT;5225456]So do you suggest we wait until its too late and we are playing catch up again?

We have our foot on their throats on the park just now, its time to press down hard

Sicken them once and for all and watch the d/d's dry up whilst we push on[/QUOTE

I think they were in a unique situation and their fans have had an unbelievable response to be fair.

I don't see their FOH income being sustained at current levels for more than another few years and I don't really see the donations between both supports becoming a big deciding factor in performance on the park.

I can totally see your argument but there are 2 groups of Hibs fans that prevent us achieving your goals. I'm in the first group - people that buy STs and merchandise and generally think we're spending enough on our football team. Then you have the 2nd group - fans who lack awareness of HSL and have never fully understood the workings or the objectives.

[007]

I can name him.


























Mister E. Benny Factor.

Thank you and goodnight....

[cocteautwin]

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The jury is out on whether it is a bank.

I wonder if the £1.75m loan is the loan from the construction company that was mentioned a few months ago by Budge?

I presume there wasn't enough cash to complete the stand so the option given to the Construction Company would have been for them to finance the remaining part of the construction themselves or watch the whole project fail?

To further fuel a conspiracy theory, is the construction company not owned by Budge's brother? I'm wondering if these mysterious £2m of extra costs on the stand are somehow connected to the Budge family and just a roundabout way of creaming more cash off HMFC? Is there any accountability at all on what the extra costs were spent on? It certainly doesn't look like a £15m main stand to me.

My theory is that Budge has foregone her 6% interest on the initial loan but has somehow manufactured an additional £2m of costs to put through her brother's company which can be extracted over the next few years by repayment of the loan the construction company have given HMFC. This way she can look like a hero to the fans but still extract her slice through her family connections. If the loan was from her brother's construction Company does it need to be disclosed as a related party transaction I wonder?

All pure speculation of course but it does somewhat rankle that they are coming out of all of this smelling of roses.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It’s loke the amateur magician that asks the audience to turn around whilst he completes
his trick - have the journalises fallen for this ? Unqualified Headlines would suggest so.