Atrocious

[emerald green]

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Yep he gave us a penalty in the 3-2 loss at Falkirk in the play offs a couple of seasons ago which James Keatings scored.

OK thanks.

[IlDiavola]

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Probably you Jambo.

Quoting myself but, this boy is quiet today after the grand opening of the Edinburgh Maracana turned into a bit of a fiasco for them.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Erm ....no it wasn't atrocious, but it wasn't good either.

I've had a long go at Anthony Stokes on another thread, so I wont continue it 'much' on here, apart from to reiterate that I want to see a lot more from him .. somebody mentioned his scoring record this season, but the league is where it counts, don't try to tell me 3 goals from open play in the league matches he has been involved in out of our 14 this season is acceptable because its not ... if Jason Cummings had been on a run like that he would have been getting slaughtered on here.

We are being let down by our home form there's no doubt about it and Saturday was a huge missed opportunity no matter how you dress it up, with the teams around us losing we could have been 2nd ..... we cant let the fact that we didn't actually lose ground paper over that if we have any ambition to make the top three or four we have to take advantage when the competition for those places slip up, especially when you look at the really tough set of fixtures we have in December.

I am absolutely baffled as to why we needed Bartley against a team that hadn't even scored a goal, never mind won, in 7 matches ... that game was going to be won or lost in midfield and as others have said we were far too light in there, if getting Stokes to drop deep to make up for the lack of numbers was the tactic it failed miserably ... he had little or no affect and was MIA just about every time we got behind them because he was 30 yards out and hardly busting a gut to get into their area.

I watched John McGinn's half time interview on ALBA and he was at pains to point out that he shouldn't be compared to Scott Brown because they are totally different players ..... bang on SJM so why are you playing the game 10 yards outside our box as if you were Scott Brown? I want to see you getting the ball inside the opposition half and running at them from there, not picking it up in the middle of our half as you did constantly on Saturday and either having to run with it for 30 yards before becoming a danger to the opposition or hitting a 60 yard pass in the direction of Boyle which was invariably cut out.

With the formation we played it was simple for St Johnstone to thwart us because they knew that as long as they could cut off, or at least slow, the supply to the two wingers, which they did fairly effectively, there was going to be little or no threat from the middle of the park with the shot shy Bartley and the far too deep McGinn isolated in there .... they would have been delighted to see Stokes pushed so far from goal all the time and Murray playing with his back to goal as practically the only outlets for balls played through the middle.

It was clear even to the tactically unaware me that after 60 minutes and barely a shot on goal, apart from Boyle's and a poor attempt from Stokes, that we needed to go for a different approach ... if we couldn't get out wide then get a target man on to try and win some knock downs with Stokes and / or Murray playing off him ... even if it didn't totally work it may have made their defence narrower making more room for Boyle to get on the ball .... that's on 60 minutes, not bloody 81 minutes which with time wasting and other stuff probably gives you 5 minutes to make it work.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !!!!

Anyway, on to Hamilton ... who in case anybody hasn't noticed pumped us last time out, came within a baw hair of beating Aberdeen and won at Ibrox on Saturday ... it just gets easier and easier

[Johnny_Leith]

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Erm ....no it wasn't atrocious, but it wasn't good either.

I've had a long go at Anthony Stokes on another thread, so I wont continue it 'much' on here, apart from to reiterate that I want to see a lot more from him .. somebody mentioned his scoring record this season, but the league is where it counts, don't try to tell me 3 goals from open play in the league matches he has been involved in out of our 14 this season is acceptable because its not ... if Jason Cummings had been on a run like that he would have been getting slaughtered on here.

We are being let down by our home form there's no doubt about it and Saturday was a huge missed opportunity no matter how you dress it up, with the teams around us losing we could have been 2nd ..... we cant let the fact that we didn't actually lose ground paper over that if we have any ambition to make the top three or four we have to take advantage when the competition for those places slip up, especially when you look at the really tough set of fixtures we have in December.

I am absolutely baffled as to why we needed Bartley against a team that hadn't even scored a goal, never mind won, in 7 matches ... that game was going to be won or lost in midfield and as others have said we were far too light in there, if getting Stokes to drop deep to make up for the lack of numbers was the tactic it failed miserably ... he had little or no affect and was MIA just about every time we got behind them because he was 30 yards out and hardly busting a gut to get into their area.

I watched John McGinn's half time interview on ALBA and he was at pains to point out that he shouldn't be compared to Scott Brown because they are totally different players ..... bang on SJM so why are you playing the game 10 yards outside our box as if you were Scott Brown? I want to see you getting the ball inside the opposition half and running at them from there, not picking it up in the middle of our half as you did constantly on Saturday and either having to run with it for 30 yards before becoming a danger to the opposition or hitting a 60 yard pass in the direction of Boyle which was invariably cut out.

With the formation we played it was simple for St Johnstone to thwart us because they knew that as long as they could cut off, or at least slow, the supply to the two wingers, which they did fairly effectively, there was going to be little or no threat from the middle of the park with the shot shy Bartley and the far too deep McGinn isolated in there .... they would have been delighted to see Stokes pushed so far from goal all the time and Murray playing with his back to goal as practically the only outlets for balls played through the middle.

It was clear even to the tactically unaware me that after 60 minutes and barely a shot on goal, apart from Boyle's and a poor attempt from Stokes, that we needed to go for a different approach ... if we couldn't get out wide then get a target man on to try and win some knock downs with Stokes and / or Murray playing off him ... even if it didn't totally work it may have made their defence narrower making more room for Boyle to get on the ball .... that's on 60 minutes, not bloody 81 minutes which with time wasting and other stuff probably gives you 5 minutes to make it work.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !!!!

Anyway, on to Hamilton ... who in case anybody hasn't noticed pumped us last time out, came within a baw hair of beating Aberdeen and won at Ibrox on Saturday ... it just gets easier and easier

Penalties and free kicks do count if scored you know, not fair to take them away from players to suit your agenda. He also had a perfectly good goal disallowed against Dundee and I'm unsure of his assist stats this season but can think of a few:

Murray v Dundee
Boyle v livi
Murray v ayr
So that's 8 goals in 13 games plus 3(that I can remember) assists. Not a bad return for someone who's still getting up to speed.


Also, I think you're a bit confused:

"I am absolutely baffled as to why we needed Bartley against a team that hadn't even scored a goal, never mind won, in 7 matches ..."

"that game was going to be won or lost in midfield and as others have said we were far too light in there"

Those two statements completely contradict. Bartley is a battler, so if the game was going to be won or lost in midfield, wouldn't you want him in there to help you win that battle. Not to mention you agree with other posters consensus that we are too light in MF but are "totally baffled" by having Bartley in there?

You admit you're tactically unaware but proceed to question player roles and (including on the other thread where you've slated stokes) were desperate for a big man to punt to. At Johnstone were set up to deal with us in a number of ways, they doubled up on wingers and had two big centre halves, our full backs let us down by not being involved or adventurous enough.

Hibs tried to play the game in the right way for the most part, a style which this season has seen mostly positive performances with generally positive results especially away from home. Out performance on Saturday was poor, but the game really hinged on two mistakes:. McGeouch not tracking Davidson into the box, whether he would have won a headed against him is another matter! And Stevenson's role in the at j winner.

I agree with your statement that our home form is letting us down, but I think over the piece it will pick up, 4-2-3-1 doesn't seem to suit as well as 4-3-3 but have some faith in the management and team to get us back on track.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Penalties and free kicks do count if scored you know, not fair to take them away from players to suit your agenda. He also had a perfectly good goal disallowed against Dundee and I'm unsure of his assist stats this season but can think of a few:

Murray v Dundee
Boyle v livi
Murray v ayr
So that's 8 goals in 13 games plus 3(that I can remember) assists. Not a bad return for someone who's still getting up to speed.


Also, I think you're a bit confused:

"I am absolutely baffled as to why we needed Bartley against a team that hadn't even scored a goal, never mind won, in 7 matches ..."

"that game was going to be won or lost in midfield and as others have said we were far too light in there"

Those two statements completely contradict. Bartley is a battler, so if the game was going to be won or lost in midfield, wouldn't you want him in there to help you win that battle. Not to mention you agree with other posters consensus that we are too light in MF but are "totally baffled" by having Bartley in there?

You admit you're tactically unaware but proceed to question player roles and (including on the other thread where you've slated stokes) were desperate for a big man to punt to. At Johnstone were set up to deal with us in a number of ways, they doubled up on wingers and had two big centre halves, our full backs let us down by not being involved or adventurous enough.

Hibs tried to play the game in the right way for the most part, a style which this season has seen mostly positive performances with generally positive results especially away from home. Out performance on Saturday was poor, but the game really hinged on two mistakes:. McGeouch not tracking Davidson into the box, whether he would have won a headed against him is another matter! And Stevenson's role in the at j winner.

I agree with your statement that our home form is letting us down, but I think over the piece it will pick up, 4-2-3-1 doesn't seem to suit as well as 4-3-3 but have some faith in the management and team to get us back on track.

Well not really ....... My point was we would have been better served having at least two creative midfield players in there for St Johnstone to worry about rather than just McGinn and the defensively minded Marvin, that's what I mean by the game being won or lost in that area .... I don't feel that we needed to allow St Johnstone to make it a midfield battle and we could have avoided that by having the ability to play through them with better players ... the last time I looked both McGinn and McGeouch are pretty good at tackling and tracking back if the need arises anyway.

As for Stokes .... Look, I'm not blaming him for us losing on Saturday, but I don't think he contributed nearly enough ... and yes I have no problem counting his penalties or goals against lesser opposition in his overall tally. But the bottom line here is that we aren't paying Anthony Stokes the undoubted high wage we are compared to most of his colleagues to bang in the goals in meat and drink games like Ayr Utd and Livingston or to take penalties, a job most competent players should be able to do .... we are paying him that money to be our biggest goal threat from 'open' play.
I'm not discounting these goals to suit an 'agenda' because I don't have one when it comes to AS .... I am discounting them to make a point and that point is that Stokes lack of league goals from open play is concerning, and sorry, but the 'getting up to speed defence is getting a bit old now IMO.

PS .... If you are going to be counting disallowed goals in this there is a more than reasonable case to be made from TV evidence that his 'goal' against Dundee would have went past the far post if it hadn't taken a deflection off the defender .... if I did have an agenda against AS I would have mentioned this in my post here and on the other thread, but I didn't because I don't want to see AS fail, I want to see him fulfilling the hopes that the club had for him when we went to such lengths to sign him ... at the moment he isn't IMO and don't think for a second I take any pleasure in saying it .... but its the truth as I see it.

[Johnny_Leith]

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Well not really ....... My point was we would have been better served having at least two creative midfield players in there for St Johnstone to worry about rather than just McGinn and the defensively minded Marvin, that's what I mean by the game being won or lost in that area .... I don't feel that we needed to allow St Johnstone to make it a midfield battle and we could have avoided that by having the ability to play through them with better players ... the last time I looked both McGinn and McGeouch are pretty good at tackling and tracking back if the need arises anyway.

As for Stokes .... Look, I'm not blaming him for us losing on Saturday, but I don't think he contributed nearly enough ... and yes I have no problem counting his penalties or goals against lesser opposition in his overall tally. But the bottom line here is that we aren't paying Anthony Stokes the undoubted high wage we are compared to most of his colleagues to bang in the goals in meat and drink games like Ayr Utd and Livingston or to take penalties, a job most competent players should be able to do .... we are paying him that money to be our biggest goal threat from 'open' play.
I'm not discounting these goals to suit an 'agenda' because I don't have one when it comes to AS .... I am discounting them to make a point and that point is that Stokes lack of league goals from open play is concerning, and sorry, but the 'getting up to speed defence is getting a bit old now IMO.

PS .... If you are going to be counting disallowed goals in this there is a more than reasonable case to be made from TV evidence that his 'goal' against Dundee would have went past the far post if it hadn't taken a deflection off the defender .... if I did have an agenda against AS I would have mentioned this in my post here and on the other thread, but I didn't because I don't want to see AS fail, I want to see him fulfilling the hopes that the club had for him when we went to such lengths to sign him ... at the moment he isn't IMO and don't think for a second I take any pleasure in saying it .... but its the truth as I see it.

I think a fully fit McGeouch (of which I'll give the benefit of the doubt he wasn't) and McGinn is a better pairing as a midfield two. I get the gaffers thinking of going with the team he did on Saturday, it's a shame so many players failed to perform for various reasons. SJ have some real battlers on there and were always going to make it tough and Marv has been playing very well of late so it's an understandable selection especially with others not 100% fit. We needed our more from our offensive players and full backs who didn't take enough responsibility.

I like to think stokes will be just as disappointed in his performance as we all are. I'm as disappointed in his performance as you are. I think you and I are right to expect a certain level of performance from one of our top paid (presumably) players. However I don't agree that the getting up to speed argument is still valid. He barely played last season, and since he was frozen out by Delia at Celtic he's maybe played 6-7 months of football which isn't a whole lot. Throw in a few injuries and all this will effect a player and prevent them playing their best (especially at this level anyway) so whilst stokes isn't playing his best football he is still contributing to the team. Let's hope his performances and therefore goal rally improve.

However, goals still need to be scored I'm 'meat and drink' games and against 'lesser' opposition. He's proven quality and eI've no doubt he can and will score in the big games. He's done so before and will do so again.

As you've already mentioned, Hamilton away is going to be a real test and let's hope we can go there and put our last game behind us and get the 3 points. Stokes hattrick would be nice!

[Lago]

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I think a fully fit McGeouch (of which I'll give the benefit of the doubt he wasn't) and McGinn is a better pairing as a midfield two. I get the gaffers thinking of going with the team he did on Saturday, it's a shame so many players failed to perform for various reasons. SJ have some real battlers on there and were always going to make it tough and Marv has been playing very well of late so it's an understandable selection especially with others not 100% fit. We needed our more from our offensive players and full backs who didn't take enough responsibility.

I like to think stokes will be just as disappointed in his performance as we all are. I'm as disappointed in his performance as you are. I think you and I are right to expect a certain level of performance from one of our top paid (presumably) players. However I don't agree that the getting up to speed argument is still valid. He barely played last season, and since he was frozen out by Delia at Celtic he's maybe played 6-7 months of football which isn't a whole lot. Throw in a few injuries and all this will effect a player and prevent them playing their best (especially at this level anyway) so whilst stokes isn't playing his best football he is still contributing to the team. Let's hope his performances and therefore goal rally improve.

However, goals still need to be scored I'm 'meat and drink' games and against 'lesser' opposition. He's proven quality and eI've no doubt he can and will score in the big games. He's done so before and will do so again.

As you've already mentioned, Hamilton away is going to be a real test and let's hope we can go there and put our last game behind us and get the 3 points. Stokes hattrick would be nice!

[lucky]

Just watched the highlights back and after being critical of Rocky I now think there was not much he could do about either goal. It was the lack of marking by both our CHs that caused the goals.

[hhibs]

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Well not really ....... My point was we would have been better served having at least two creative midfield players in there for St Johnstone to worry about rather than just McGinn and the defensively minded Marvin, that's what I mean by the game being won or lost in that area .... I don't feel that we needed to allow St Johnstone to make it a midfield battle and we could have avoided that by having the ability to play through them with better players ... the last time I looked both McGinn and McGeouch are pretty good at tackling and tracking back if the need arises anyway.

As for Stokes .... Look, I'm not blaming him for us losing on Saturday, but I don't think he contributed nearly enough ... and yes I have no problem counting his penalties or goals against lesser opposition in his overall tally. But the bottom line here is that we aren't paying Anthony Stokes the undoubted high wage we are compared to most of his colleagues to bang in the goals in meat and drink games like Ayr Utd and Livingston or to take penalties, a job most competent players should be able to do .... we are paying him that money to be our biggest goal threat from 'open' play.
I'm not discounting these goals to suit an 'agenda' because I don't have one when it comes to AS .... I am discounting them to make a point and that point is that Stokes lack of league goals from open play is concerning, and sorry, but the 'getting up to speed defence is getting a bit old now IMO.

PS .... If you are going to be counting disallowed goals in this there is a more than reasonable case to be made from TV evidence that his 'goal' against Dundee would have went past the far post if it hadn't taken a deflection off the defender .... if I did have an agenda against AS I would have mentioned this in my post here and on the other thread, but I didn't because I don't want to see AS fail, I want to see him fulfilling the hopes that the club had for him when we went to such lengths to sign him ... at the moment he isn't IMO and don't think for a second I take any pleasure in saying it .... but its the truth as I see it.

[easty]

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Just watched the highlights back and after being critical of Rocky I now think there was not much he could do about either goal. It was the lack of marking by both our CHs that caused the goals.

I get where you're coming from as it's a header on the 6 yard line, but for me it's Dylan or Marv who should have been picking up Davidson for the 1st goal, neither of the centre halfs fault.

[J-C]

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I get where you're coming from as it's a header on the 6 yard line, but for me it's Dylan or Marv who should have been picking up Davidson for the 1st goal, neither of the centre halfs fault.

I watched the highlights and it was Bartley at fault, he let him stroll past and get a clear header in.

[Sammy7nil]

Marciano did not cover himself in glory for either goal

[Tyler Durden]

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Yep he gave us a penalty in the 3-2 loss at Falkirk in the play offs a couple of seasons ago which James Keatings scored.

He did give that penalty but remember the Falkirk player should've been red carded for that foul as it was a blatant goal scoring offence. Keatings was 8 yards out and about to shoot. So still awful refereeing from Thomson

[eastterrace]

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Just watched the highlights back and after being critical of Rocky I now think there was not much he could do about either goal. It was the lack of marking by both our CHs that caused the goals.

Thought he should have came for the first one the ball was looped in the air back across goal , but once he hesitated then he lost the advantage and the player nipped in .


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