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    @hibs.net private member vince1973's Avatar
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    Off the ball

    They were talking about fan ownership on off the ball and they spouted the same old fan ownership schemes apart from Hibs. So a few minutes later Tam says Leeann had contacted them to say Hibs fans over 30% of the club 🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬 Gotta love the woman!


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    @hibs.net private member green day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince1973 View Post
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    They were talking about fan ownership on off the ball and they spouted the same old fan ownership schemes apart from Hibs. So a few minutes later Tam says Leeann had contacted them to say Hibs fans over 30% of the club 🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬 Gotta love the woman!
    Please dont tell me they quoted the gimps as being fan owned?

    I suppose technically they are.........owned by one fan

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    @hibs.net private member vince1973's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by green day View Post
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    Please dont tell me they quoted the gimps as being fan owned?

    I suppose technically they are.........owned by one fan
    Aye of course they did. We just need to accept that Hearts will be seen as the model fan ownership model until we actually own 51% of our club, which of course, will be years before the gorgie gimps own over 10% of hearts, or their stand


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  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member tamig's Avatar
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    The only person on Sportsound who ever talks about our fan ownership is Preston believe it or not.

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    The myth of Hearts fan ownership has grown arms and legs since Budge bought the entire club using her own personal fortune.

    How the media mistake a single multi millionaire for a body of fans who have clubbed together to purchase shares is anyones guess.

    Its true that one day the fans could own the club but that day is a long way off, what is reported by the media is a dream, a wish list of Hearts fans hopes for the future.

    The truth is Hearts are so far away from fan ownership that most of the deluded cardigans will never see it in their lifetime.

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    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince1973 View Post
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    They were talking about fan ownership on off the ball and they spouted the same old fan ownership schemes apart from Hibs. So a few minutes later Tam says Leeann had contacted them to say Hibs fans over 30% of the club 🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬 Gotta love the woman!
    Well done LD ............. Its crazy how we are continually ignored in these discussions. I suppose the Hibs fan ownership scheme goes under the radar quite a lot because it wasn't born of desperation like Motherwell for example.

    Why Hearts are continually quoted is a mystery ..... FOH may eventually be a fan ownership scheme, but at the moment all it is is a monthly payment scheme used to stop the Yams from going under. Saying its a fan ownership scheme because fans pay into it is like saying the People's Republic of China is a democracy because they hold elections.

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    @hibs.net private member Kato's Avatar
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    Tam Cowan was also touting Tynie as a venue for full Internationals during a discussion on Hampden's future. Misinformed and petty.

  9. #8
    Hearts fan ownership is a bigger myth than the famous Tynecastle atmosphere

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    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
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    Tam Cowan was also touting Tynie as a venue for full Internationals during a discussion on Hampden's future. Misinformed and petty.
    Full Subbuteo internationals maybe

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    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
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    Tam Cowan was also touting Tynie as a venue for full Internationals during a discussion on Hampden's future. Misinformed and petty.
    Is that not possible as they have played there before?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tamig View Post
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    The only person on Sportsound who ever talks about our fan ownership is Preston believe it or not.
    Yip, very positive he is to!

  13. #12
    @hibs.net private member Deansy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kato View Post
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    Tam Cowan was also touting Tynie as a venue for full Internationals during a discussion on Hampden's future. Misinformed and petty.
    Agreed - the love-in between Cowan and the yams is truly cringe-worthy !. However, given both's standing and respect in their chosen occupations, they're the ideal match - he creates as many laughs as they do wonderful scoring-opportunities !

  14. #13
    I've still to work out what the benefit is going to be from fan ownership. A voice on the board, like the 2 fans reps? I Guess people think it will be a greater voice on the board than that the reps? Correct me if I'm wrong. However I can't help but feel that the voice on the board will be no different or no closer to the fans than the current situation. Suppose fans own 51%, what then? I own some of HSL, how is my voice going to be heard any more than it is now? Hibs have a board, owner, there's is structure and it's being led well. Let's say HSL own 51%, they have a board, they become the deciding factor. How do I have any more influence over them than the current board. Is every decision going to have a referendum? I doubt it. When the **** hits the fan who steps up to cover it? Us? Or do we just end up like them with Budge? I love that I have contributed to my club, added some cash which I have written off like I think we all have but where does it take us. Just can't see the benefit in the long run

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    Quote Originally Posted by SingaporeHibs View Post
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    I've still to work out what the benefit is going to be from fan ownership. A voice on the board, like the 2 fans reps? I Guess people think it will be a greater voice on the board than that the reps? Correct me if I'm wrong. However I can't help but feel that the voice on the board will be no different or no closer to the fans than the current situation. Suppose fans own 51%, what then? I own some of HSL, how is my voice going to be heard any more than it is now? Hibs have a board, owner, there's is structure and it's being led well. Let's say HSL own 51%, they have a board, they become the deciding factor. How do I have any more influence over them than the current board. Is every decision going to have a referendum? I doubt it. When the **** hits the fan who steps up to cover it? Us? Or do we just end up like them with Budge? I love that I have contributed to my club, added some cash which I have written off like I think we all have but where does it take us. Just can't see the benefit in the long run
    Except HSL can't own %51 as a large chunk of the %51 fan ownership will be by individual fans.

    Also, when the "**** hits tha fan" I just hope L&B's finest are on the case to put the **** in jail.

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    @hibs.net private member linlithgowhibbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingaporeHibs View Post
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    I've still to work out what the benefit is going to be from fan ownership. A voice on the board, like the 2 fans reps? I Guess people think it will be a greater voice on the board than that the reps? Correct me if I'm wrong. However I can't help but feel that the voice on the board will be no different or no closer to the fans than the current situation. Suppose fans own 51%, what then? I own some of HSL, how is my voice going to be heard any more than it is now? Hibs have a board, owner, there's is structure and it's being led well. Let's say HSL own 51%, they have a board, they become the deciding factor. How do I have any more influence over them than the current board. Is every decision going to have a referendum? I doubt it. When the **** hits the fan who steps up to cover it? Us? Or do we just end up like them with Budge? I love that I have contributed to my club, added some cash which I have written off like I think we all have but where does it take us. Just can't see the benefit in the long run
    One benefit is it means we can stop someone like Mad Vlad buying control of the club and leading it down the swanny.

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by linlithgowhibbie View Post
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    One benefit is it means we can stop someone like Mad Vlad buying control of the club and leading it down the swanny.
    That for sure is a benefit. I'm yet to be convinced another rich owner with plenty to spend wouldn't be a good option (provided they really were willing to spend their cash and not loan it). Given the money wasted in England on clubs that will never get near European Football I'm amazed not more don't see Scotland as a fairly easy route to have a go at European dominance.

  18. #17
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    If Ann Budget's money means that hertz are fan owned, why doesn't that apply to STF?

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  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    If Ann Budget's money means that hertz are fan owned, why doesn't that apply to STF?

    STF's not really a fan, is he?

  20. #19
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    STF's not really a fan, is he?
    I'm pretty sure he supports Hibs.
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  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    I'm pretty sure he supports Hibs.
    I don't think saviour implies fan.

    Anyway the BBC has decided we're not fan-owned and Hearts are, so shouldn't we all just move on?

  22. #21
    @hibs.net private member Bostonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vince1973 View Post
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    They were talking about fan ownership on off the ball and they spouted the same old fan ownership schemes apart from Hibs. So a few minutes later Tam says Leeann had contacted them to say Hibs fans over 30% of the club Gotta love the woman!
    A hearts fan owns over 90% of the club, just the one fan.

    The rest of the fans have coughed up cash for shares for the second time in recent memory.

    However they dress it up they haven't even got a photocopy of a share certificate. They don't have any form of fan ownership in the sense that idiots like preston chatter about.

    They have a plan to maybe get the first certificate transferred to a fan under a scheme. I'm saving up to buy a gold mine but it doesn't mean I can say I actually have any gold let alone the best gold in the world.

    Yams, the practical alternative to reality.

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  23. #22
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingaporeHibs View Post
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    That for sure is a benefit. I'm yet to be convinced another rich owner with plenty to spend wouldn't be a good option (provided they really were willing to spend their cash and not loan it). Given the money wasted in England on clubs that will never get near European Football I'm amazed not more don't see Scotland as a fairly easy route to have a go at European dominance.
    Pretty well my take on it as well, sad though I am to say it. The fans having enough of the club to stop Mad Vlads and asset strippers is a great thing, having so much of it that it puts off prospective owners with pots of cash to invest is not a good thing IMO.

    As somebody else alluded to ... what DO we do if the Ertha Kitt hits the fan ..... say we need to find £2,000,000 quickly, if we have a total of 4,000 fans owning this 51% of the club are they, we, me going to be expected to come up with £500 each? ... I can tell you right now I wouldn't have it.

    You only have to look at BREXIT to see what an almighty mess you can get into if you rush headlong into a situation without fully thinking through how you are going to address the consequences of your actions ..... I'm boring myself asking these questions again and again, but as far as I know I've yet to see any coherent reply to them, in fact any reply at all:

    How will the club be run once the fans have a majority shareholding?
    What does STF intend to do with his share which will still make him the biggest single shareholder in the club?
    What plans are in place to raise finance in an emergency? .. especially if STF does not intend to bankroll the club and in the sure and certain knowledge that the banks will not loan us money.

    The answers to these questions need to be worked on now ... not 5 years from now when we are all standing about wondering what we are going to do because storm whatever has ripped the stand roof off.

    We have a lot of intelligent folk running the club, running HSL and who own individual shareholdings ... hell, we even have a fair few obviously intelligent folk who post on this messageboard. But if you ask me everybody appears to be walking about with their eyes shut to this massively important issue regarding our future.

  24. #23
    We are a very well run business I'm sure that there are succession plans in place should anything happens to STF. Trust in the management.

  25. #24
    @hibs.net private member Bostonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Pretty well my take on it as well, sad though I am to say it. The fans having enough of the club to stop Mad Vlads and asset strippers is a great thing, having so much of it that it puts off prospective owners with pots of cash to invest is not a good thing IMO.

    As somebody else alluded to ... what DO we do if the Ertha Kitt hits the fan ..... say we need to find £2,000,000 quickly, if we have a total of 4,000 fans owning this 51% of the club are they, we, me going to be expected to come up with £500 each? ... I can tell you right now I wouldn't have it.

    You only have to look at BREXIT to see what an almighty mess you can get into if you rush headlong into a situation without fully thinking through how you are going to address the consequences of your actions ..... I'm boring myself asking these questions again and again, but as far as I know I've yet to see any coherent reply to them, in fact any reply at all:

    How will the club be run once the fans have a majority shareholding?
    What does STF intend to do with his share which will still make him the biggest single shareholder in the club?
    What plans are in place to raise finance in an emergency? .. especially if STF does not intend to bankroll the club and in the sure and certain knowledge that the banks will not loan us money.

    The answers to these questions need to be worked on now ... not 5 years from now when we are all standing about wondering what we are going to do because storm whatever has ripped the stand roof off.

    We have a lot of intelligent folk running the club, running HSL and who own individual shareholdings ... hell, we even have a fair few obviously intelligent folk who post on this messageboard. But if you ask me everybody appears to be walking about with their eyes shut to this massively important issue regarding our future.
    Pretty close to my own views on the subject. 30% if its the right number to have an effective block on shysters has always been around the number I'd be happy at. A proper seat on the board with a block of shares behind it representing the fans collectively if possible would be my ideal.

    "I did not need any persuasion to play for such a great club, the Hibs result is still one of the first I look for"

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  26. #25
    I'm a bit lost, what do you want to change regarding the current structure which is probably the best in Scotland?

  27. #26
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    If the club is run correctly then we shouldn’t need emergency funding. But like any going concern I’m sure we’d find some funding available from a bank. Secondly STF can do want he wants with his shares but the fans will still be in the majority. Hibs have never had an owner who has spent millions on developing our team but if someone comes in they can still offer the owners (the fans) a deal to buy their shares.

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Pretty well my take on it as well, sad though I am to say it. The fans having enough of the club to stop Mad Vlads and asset strippers is a great thing, having so much of it that it puts off prospective owners with pots of cash to invest is not a good thing IMO.

    As somebody else alluded to ... what DO we do if the Ertha Kitt hits the fan ..... say we need to find £2,000,000 quickly, if we have a total of 4,000 fans owning this 51% of the club are they, we, me going to be expected to come up with £500 each? ... I can tell you right now I wouldn't have it.

    You only have to look at BREXIT to see what an almighty mess you can get into if you rush headlong into a situation without fully thinking through how you are going to address the consequences of your actions ..... I'm boring myself asking these questions again and again, but as far as I know I've yet to see any coherent reply to them, in fact any reply at all:

    How will the club be run once the fans have a majority shareholding?
    What does STF intend to do with his share which will still make him the biggest single shareholder in the club?
    What plans are in place to raise finance in an emergency? .. especially if STF does not intend to bankroll the club and in the sure and certain knowledge that the banks will not loan us money.

    The answers to these questions need to be worked on now ... not 5 years from now when we are all standing about wondering what we are going to do because storm whatever has ripped the stand roof off.

    We have a lot of intelligent folk running the club, running HSL and who own individual shareholdings ... hell, we even have a fair few obviously intelligent folk who post on this messageboard. But if you ask me everybody appears to be walking about with their eyes shut to this massively important issue regarding our future.
    What a rubbish post. Of course this club will end up in serious debt if it spends money it doesn't have.

    Solution : don't do that! No need to wish for rich uncles to bail you out. - just spend within your means.

  29. #28
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    I'm pretty sure he supports Hibs.
    STF.jpg
    STF sitting with the fans (Hampden, April 2006 )

  30. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by crabis View Post
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    What a rubbish post. Of course this club will end up in serious debt if it spends money it doesn't have.

    Solution : don't do that! No need to wish for rich uncles to bail you out. - just spend within your means.
    Take the Jambos as an example, they have an absolute shambles of a situation going on, fans paying through the nose to subsidise their entire club/business as a going concern with next to zero say on anything going on over the road (have any one of them had a share cert issued? I have no idea and don't care really). They are possibly the worst example of 'fan ownership' because that's not really what's going on over the road as far as I can tell. However think about their new main stand, funded by??. £12m estimate cost, now costing what, £14,15,16m, whatever. What I know is that Budge ain't paying and the fans will be left to fill the gap. Their new stand will result in years and years of hardship which ultimately impacts the money available for the squad over that period and in Football I think that gets multiplied quickly. . Now think 20 years down the road, Hibs need to make upgrades, changes to the ground? Where does that money come from? If it's from within 'out means' what does that mean. We (the fans) have to find the money or accept that the business needs to fund itself resulting in years of hardship impacting the playing squad? There is a difference between cheating the system as we've seen others do and having a rich owner who is willing to spend their cash on making the club as great as it can be. I can't see how fan ownership could ever help us reach for the stars. Yes, we can protect it but can we help make it great? I doubt it

  31. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SingaporeHibs View Post
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    Take the Jambos as an example, they have an absolute shambles of a situation going on, fans paying through the nose to subsidise their entire club/business as a going concern with next to zero say on anything going on over the road (have any one of them had a share cert issued? I have no idea and don't care really). They are possibly the worst example of 'fan ownership' because that's not really what's going on over the road as far as I can tell. However think about their new main stand, funded by??. £12m estimate cost, now costing what, £14,15,16m, whatever. What I know is that Budge ain't paying and the fans will be left to fill the gap. Their new stand will result in years and years of hardship which ultimately impacts the money available for the squad over that period and in Football I think that gets multiplied quickly. . Now think 20 years down the road, Hibs need to make upgrades, changes to the ground? Where does that money come from? If it's from within 'out means' what does that mean. We (the fans) have to find the money or accept that the business needs to fund itself resulting in years of hardship impacting the playing squad? There is a difference between cheating the system as we've seen others do and having a rich owner who is willing to spend their cash on making the club as great as it can be. I can't see how fan ownership could ever help us reach for the stars. Yes, we can protect it but can we help make it great? I doubt it
    Nothing precludes anyone from gifting money to the club...you don't have to own it to spend on it.

    Also who do you think is responsible for generating a large percentage of the income for the club currently and every year. The fans.

    As for infrastructure upgrades..you save or you borrow or both. Them's the breaks in the real world.

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