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  1. #181
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    But it's always someone else's fault.
    Yep
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  3. #182
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    True but even the most die-hard SNP apologist can't defend the way NHS performance has deteriorated on their watch. Worsened by the fact that Sturgeon was Health Minister and worsened by the fact that Robison is so incompetent and worsened by the fact that they said it was a priority and they've singularly failed to deliver.

    NHS performance in Scotland has got worse, simple as that. Ministers need to answer and take responsibility, it's what accountability and democracy is all about.

    The most crass part of it is that you get SNP apologists saying things are worse in England and Wales. Of course they bloody are. England and Wales are two years ahead of Scotland in social care spending cuts. Those cuts will invariably impact on the hospital targets that we're failing to meet - the eighteen weeks target, the A+E 4 hours target, the 72 hours delayed discharge target.

    There's a paucity of imagination to deal with this. It's about time someone answered that instead of playing party games.
    I'm all for having a discussion about how we fund our NHS going forward, but to have posted what you have above, without mentioning your parties involvement in abstaining when the Tories and Lib dems were initiating the austerity policies, and cutting the budgets to our SG to deal with is rather odd.

    Maybe you could also mention the latest satisfaction surveys in all the Nations of the uk. That might help.

    Obviously the Universities of Oxford, Cambridge, and the University College London are not good enough for you.
    Last edited by ronaldo7; 18-05-2018 at 10:32 AM.

  4. #183
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    But it's always someone else's fault.
    It's about time you started owning the policies of the party you vote for.

    #Windrush #Rape clause to name but two.

  5. #184
    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Anyway, back to Alex Salmond...what IS his total annual income these days?

  6. #185
    I imagine the news that Salmond hopes to return to front line politics as soon as Sturgeon 'fires the starting gun' on another referendum will see her put the gun back in a drawer for a few years yet...

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...ref2-1-4741252

    The 'Declaration of Morningside' indeed...when will it dawn on the SNP that the supposed 'power grab' that they've been trying to ramp up as a constitutional crisis isn't registering with the average punter? Brexit just isn't the platform upon which to try and manufacture another referendum and the SNP's attempts to prolong this non-issue are wearisome. In saying that, Corbyn's parroting of the 'power grab' line on his recent token trip to Scotland was even more laughable given the Labour-run Welsh government had only recently come to an agreement with Westminster on post-Brexit devolved powers. The guy hasn't a clue about Scotland, though I get the impression he doesn't really care. Happy to admit that if it came to a choice between a Corbyn-led UK Government and Scottish independence I'd opt for the latter.

  7. #186
    Testimonial Due pacoluna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    I imagine the news that Salmond hopes to return to front line politics as soon as Sturgeon 'fires the starting gun' on another referendum will see her put the gun back in a drawer for a few years yet...

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...ref2-1-4741252

    The 'Declaration of Morningside' indeed...when will it dawn on the SNP that the supposed 'power grab' that they've been trying to ramp up as a constitutional crisis isn't registering with the average punter? Brexit just isn't the platform upon which to try and manufacture another referendum and the SNP's attempts to prolong this non-issue are wearisome. In saying that, Corbyn's parroting of the 'power grab' line on his recent token trip to Scotland was even more laughable given the Labour-run Welsh government had only recently come to an agreement with Westminster on post-Brexit devolved powers. The guy hasn't a clue about Scotland, though I get the impression he doesn't really care. Happy to admit that if it came to a choice between a Corbyn-led UK Government and Scottish independence I'd opt for the latter.

    newspapers...Dying out just like the generation who still reads them.

  8. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    I imagine the news that Salmond hopes to return to front line politics as soon as Sturgeon 'fires the starting gun' on another referendum will see her put the gun back in a drawer for a few years yet...

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politi...ref2-1-4741252

    The 'Declaration of Morningside' indeed...when will it dawn on the SNP that the supposed 'power grab' that they've been trying to ramp up as a constitutional crisis isn't registering with the average punter? Brexit just isn't the platform upon which to try and manufacture another referendum and the SNP's attempts to prolong this non-issue are wearisome. In saying that, Corbyn's parroting of the 'power grab' line on his recent token trip to Scotland was even more laughable given the Labour-run Welsh government had only recently come to an agreement with Westminster on post-Brexit devolved powers. The guy hasn't a clue about Scotland, though I get the impression he doesn't really care. Happy to admit that if it came to a choice between a Corbyn-led UK Government and Scottish independence I'd opt for the latter.
    I agree the "power grab" doesn't seem to be gaining much traction as an issue with the electorate at large but I think the fact that the staunchly pro-Union Labs and Libs voted with Scot gov against it show it actually is a real issue. Even the Tory members of Holyrood's Brexit committee initially said it was unacceptable before getting telt and meekly trotting back to the pro-UK line.

    btw, your last choice - you might actually get both!

  9. #188
    Testimonial Due Geo_1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    Anyway, back to Alex Salmond...what IS his total annual income these days?
    Not a clue.

  10. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I agree the "power grab" doesn't seem to be gaining much traction as an issue with the electorate at large but I think the fact that the staunchly pro-Union Labs and Libs voted with Scot gov against it show it actually is a real issue. Even the Tory members of Holyrood's Brexit committee initially said it was unacceptable before getting telt and meekly trotting back to the pro-UK line.

    btw, your last choice - you might actually get both!
    Here's hoping neither ever happen, but I'd rather be governed by Sturgeon than Corbyn. I may not agree with her politics but I have some respect for her. I'm pretty confident we'll never see Corbyn as PM though. Faced with probably the most calamity-ridden government in living memory the fact Labour lag five points behind the Tories in the latest opinion polls almost beggars belief.

  11. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by G B Young View Post
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    Here's hoping neither ever happen, but I'd rather be governed by Sturgeon than Corbyn. I may not agree with her politics but I have some respect for her. I'm pretty confident we'll never see Corbyn as PM though. Faced with probably the most calamity-ridden government in living memory the fact Labour lag five points behind the Tories in the latest opinion polls almost beggars belief.
    We can certainly agree on that.

  12. #191
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I'm all for having a discussion about how we fund our NHS going forward, but to have posted what you have above, without mentioning your parties involvement in abstaining when the Tories and Lib dems were initiating the austerity policies, and cutting the budgets to our SG to deal with is rather odd.

    Maybe you could also mention the latest satisfaction surveys in all the Nations of the uk. That might help.

    Obviously the Universities of Oxford, Cambridge, and the University College London are not good enough for you.
    I was talking about performance, which is tanking.

    But if you want to talk about satisfaction levels, then the benchmark measurement is the British Social Attitudes survey which is weighted to provide as statistically an accurate sample as is just about possible - that's not my solely my view, the Kings' Fund have said the same for years now and they're the leading independent think-tank in health. An NHS and social care version of the IFS if you like.

    The BSA survey has been conducted every year since the mid-eighties, using a consistent and in-depth methodology and the latest publication shows increased dissatisfaction and decreased satisfaction. What's perhaps more important and what you've not touched upon is what people cite as their reasons for dissatisfaction and satisfaction.

    People cite 'free at the point of use' as a cause of satisfaction and they also cite the attitude and caring nature of staff. Now the first one is pretty much a nuclear issue - no mainstream party is willing to even go there. The second one reinforces the idea that most people choose to work in health and social care because they are intrinsically altruistic, believe in social justice, essentially want to help people.

    What people cite as causes of dissatisfaction are things like waiting times and perceived lack of funding. These are issues that government has levers for but is failing to address.

    And that's not to say throwing more money at hospitals will solve matters as I firmly believe it won't. What it does require is a serious and contemplative discussion societally about what we want, what we expect and what is realistic.

    The 1970s were a turbulent time in terms of narratives being challenged about the relationship between the state and its people and there were a spate of Royal Commissions looking into various disputed and controversial areas. There was also a paradigm shift in public attitude with the post-war consensus between 'left' and 'right' coming to a crashing and bitter end.

    I suspect the time is overdue for another Royal Commission-style exercise to address the issues with health, social care and demographic and funding pressures. Nearly ten years ago the Dilnot Commission looked at the issue of long-term funding for elderly social care but the findings haven't been meaningfully implemented and have withered on the vine.

    Alex Salmond is just about old enough for free personal care so there is a tenuous link to the thread title
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  13. #192
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    Anyway, back to Alex Salmond...what IS his total annual income these days?
    Considerably less than the cost of this one day farce of an event.

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