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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by green day View Post
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    Have a look at mine again - I didnt say they were morally or legally bound to support the board - I said they were part of the board, and that at times they need to do what they think is best.

    I say again, if you or any of the others with strong views dont like what they are doing, its simply resolved - stand yourself using this issue, and if there is the right level of support then you will be elected.

    Its piss easy to snipe from the woods.
    Take objection to that last comment. Making an argument to say they both should have been aware there was a divided opinion among supporters and they should have each voted differently is not sniping from the woods.


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  3. #152
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Dom View Post
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    So the fans reps spoke to some fans, read some views on forums/social media and made their conclusions from that. I'm not having a go at the reps but that is just poor. They should have went about it much more thoroughly than they did. Polls, E-mails, Letters to those who can't access other things etc. I'm pretty sure everybody does want to move on from this saga but this just reeks of 'brushing it under the carpet' moving on instead of getting answers and then moving on.
    This just about covers it for our group last night.

  4. #153
    @hibs.net private member green day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatHead View Post
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    Take objection to that last comment. Making an argument to say they both should have been aware there was a divided opinion among supporters and they should have each voted differently is not sniping from the woods.
    Take objection all you like

    While your argument in bold is fine, there have been plenty of stupid and negative sniping comments about the reps.

  5. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by King Dom View Post
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    So the fans reps spoke to some fans, read some views on forums/social media and made their conclusions from that. I'm not having a go at the reps but that is just poor. They should have went about it much more thoroughly than they did. Polls, E-mails, Letters to those who can't access other things etc. I'm pretty sure everybody does want to move on from this saga but this just reeks of 'brushing it under the carpet' moving on instead of getting answers and then moving on.
    You do realise thatís the fans reps are volunteers and canít spend their whole lives doing this voluntary job? The fact they liaised and then fronted up a meeting to explain their decision seems fair enough to me. The petition and now subsequent witch hunt against the board is unnecessary and only brings disharmony to our club.

  6. #155
    Coaching Staff Tomsk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CallumLaidlaw View Post
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    This is from a FB page called inside Easter Road -

    ***Feedback On Hibernian FC's Response To SFA Rejection Of An Independent Review Meeting Tonight At HSA.***

    Board member's in attendance at top table:
    Rod Petrie Chairman
    Leeann Dempster CEO
    Stephen Dunn Director
    Frank Dougan Fans Representative Director
    Tracey Smith Fans Representative Director

    Lurking in the background nodding as they spoke PR guy:
    David Forsyth

    Meeting lasted exactly an hour. Around 80 folk in attendance. Meeting was conducted respectfully and friendly. As many pointed out we are one big Hibernian family and at times we will agree to disagree.

    I didn't take any notes but random points to note were as follows:

    The club are obviously frustrated by all of it and want to move on looking forward, with a firm belief that the past has been dealt with, but Leeann and Rod understand and respect the ongoing disappointment within sections of the support.

    Leeann and Rod spoke very well, going in depth and in detail, about how the game of football and it's respective authorities here in Scotland did all that it could to punish Rangers and ensure the new Co picked up the baton of old Co financial liabilities.

    The club put out its statement because of the pressure applied to the club to do so by us fans. At two or three board meetings the fans representation of Frank & Tracey pushed for that.

    Tracey said that she heard lots of different opinions with many wanting to 'move on'. Frank then said that he's spoken to many many fans and that the majority he has spoken to wanted to 'move on'.

    An excellent question from the floor was put to the fans representation that if as Tracey Smith posted on Hibeesbounce.com that in board meetings she had learned "Information that was not widely known" and that was information she couldn't share then perhaps she should have not participated in the board meeting and adopted a position of neutrality. Tracey stated that even as a non executive director she is legally obligated to act in what she perceives as the greater good of the club.

    Rod at this point put up a bit of a defence of the fans representatives and their obligations etc as non executive directors. When deciding on introducing fans representation on the board the clubs board had a decision to make. Should these fans representation directors only be privy to some meetings and votes or should they be full directors like the rest of the board? The club decided that they should be full directors like the rest.

    To be honest I didn't learn much tonight. I thought Leeann came across well. Our club is pushing for consensus in the Scottish game to get financial fair play in Scotland. I also thought Rod came across well. Nobody really asked him any difficult questions. Perhaps the night might have been more challenging for him had the recently launched online petition questions been asked....

    Stephen Dunn didn't speak a word. Tracey spoke OK and I got the impression it concluded much to her relief on what mustn't have been an evening she looked forward with much relish. Credit though to her for not shying from the microphone. Frank saying most he's spoken to want to 'move on' surprised me. He said he was sorry if that isn't what we want to hear but that's the way it is. He bemoaned the fact that only 9 turned up for a fans director open surgery. I find it unbelievable really that this guy, however much a huge Hibby, was elected a fans representative on the board in the world of 2017 of digital communications.

    Now home I'm just pondering and a little confused, that if the club only put out its statement because us fans demanded it, through our elected fans representation on the board, then that's a weird and baffling demand when we all just wanted to 'move on'....

    #GGTTH


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    I couldn't even finish reading that.

  7. #156
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    You do realise thatís the fans reps are volunteers and canít spend their whole lives doing this voluntary job? The fact they liaised and then fronted up a meeting to explain their decision seems fair enough to me. The petition and now subsequent witch hunt against the board is unnecessary and only brings disharmony to our club.
    The fans reps, themselves, said they could have done better on the communication front, last night.

  8. #157
    @hibs.net private member Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Bear View Post
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    Facebook is the place apparently. Maybe some kind soul will copy and paste it.
    I've seen it, and it states that LD and RP went into detail. But the report doesn't!

  9. #158
    Coaching Staff Ronniekirk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    Question for Traceyhibs.
    What are the clubs views on introducing Financial FairPlay Rules to Scottish Football?


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    Would of been one of my questions last night It was a key cornerstone of the Sporting Integrity Debate way back
    Or have The Rangers browbeaten all the clubs into delaying this until they have broken all the rules to secure second spot and are back where they rightfully belong
    I am far from being an Agitator but on this issue i would like dome clarity


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  10. #159
    Testimonial Due The Harp Awakes's Avatar
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    I was at the meeting last night and I thought Leeann and Rod spoke well and put forward the Club's position as well as they possibly could.

    Leeann's main argument was that she and the Club are totally focused on Hibs and the future and didn't want to be deflected by looking back at what happened in the past.

    Rod's main argument was that the Rangers situation was dealt with by the football authorities at the time; SPL/other Clubs and the SFA. He added that you could argue with the level of punishment (£250k fine, transfer embargo, Newco taking on Oldco's football debts) but you couldn't argue that the matter hadn't been dealt with at the time.

    Whilst I can understand Leeann's argument to an extent, I think that Rod's position is weak. The problem with it is, that there remains a real doubt as to whether the football authorities delivered a punishment to Newco which fitted the crime of Oldco. The reason being that the clubs had a vested interest in not punishing Newco too severely, due to self-interest and self-preservation (£s). Leeann actually eluded to the self-interest of other clubs in her opening contribution.

    An independent enquiry no doubt would have considered the self-interest issue and made recommendations which may have allowed everyone to look forward to the future with confidence. So for me, HFC's opposition to an independent review into the matter is disappointing and short-sighted.

  11. #160
    @hibs.net private member Mikey's Avatar
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    Cheers THA.

  12. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes View Post
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    I was at the meeting last night and I thought Leeann and Rod spoke well and put forward the Club's position as well as they possibly could.

    Leeann's main argument was that she and the Club are totally focused on Hibs and the future and didn't want to be deflected by looking back at what happened in the past.

    Rod's main argument was that the Rangers situation was dealt with by the football authorities at the time; SPL/other Clubs and the SFA. He added that you could argue with the level of punishment (£250k fine, transfer embargo, Newco taking on Oldco's football debts) but you couldn't argue that the matter hadn't been dealt with at the time.

    Whilst I can understand Leeann's argument to an extent, I think that Rod's position is weak. The problem with it is, that there remains a real doubt as to whether the football authorities delivered a punishment to Newco which fitted the crime of Oldco. The reason being that the clubs had a vested interest in not punishing Newco too severely, due to self-interest and self-preservation (£s). Leeann actually eluded to the self-interest of other clubs in her opening contribution.

    An independent enquiry no doubt would have considered the self-interest issue and made recommendations which may have allowed everyone to look forward to the future with confidence. So for me, HFC's opposition to an independent review into the matter is disappointing and short-sighted.
    Thanks for report.

    Did you get a sense of what Leeann meant by being 'deflected'? I am struggling to see how Hibs would suffer in any significant way in the future by being party to any review of previous wrongdoing, or involved in establishing rules which would prevent another oldco/newco fiasco. Rod's already involved with the governance - is there a fear that he wouldn't have time to turn up to ER at all if the issues were properly looked at?

  13. #162
    The only way the club can benefit from not having the inquiry is if the club has something to hide. Is this what the "new information" was?

  14. #163
    Testimonial Due The Harp Awakes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Thanks for report.

    Did you get a sense of what Leeann meant by being 'deflected'? I am struggling to see how Hibs would suffer in any significant way in the future by being party to any review of previous wrongdoing, or involved in establishing rules which would prevent another oldco/newco fiasco. Rod's already involved with the governance - is there a fear that he wouldn't have time to turn up to ER at all if the issues were properly looked at?
    Leeann made the point that the issue all kicked off at a time when the Club's main focus was on the transfer window. I think she feels that attention given to the past and an enquiry etc, could affect the Club's focus on future achievement. Whilst I can see where Leeann is coming from, I feel in these days of transparency and demonstrating fair play, the issue is far too important to brush under the carpet.

    On Rod, he is clearly in a difficult position due to his role at the SFA. The SFA have their fingerprints all over the EBT scandal and I suspect his status at the SFA must be the main reason the Club has adopted the stance which they have.

  15. #164
    @hibs.net private member Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Hibernian FC's response to SFA rejection of an Independent Review....HSA meeting...

    I canít see how it can be in the clubs interest to either be part of a cover up or to turn a blind eye to a cover up and that is what it looks like.
    Directors have a duty to protect the clubs long term reputation as well as its short term financial health.


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  16. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes View Post
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    Leeann made the point that the issue all kicked off at a time when the Club's main focus was on the transfer window. I think she feels that attention given to the past and an enquiry etc, could affect the Club's focus on future achievement. Whilst I can see where Leeann is coming from, I feel in these days of transparency and demonstrating fair play, the issue is far too important to brush under the carpet.

    On Rod, he is clearly in a difficult position due to his role at the SFA. The SFA have their fingerprints all over the EBT scandal and I suspect his status at the SFA must be the main reason the Club has adopted the stance which they have.
    Thanks. Sadly does look that way. The stuff about the transfer window and focus being affected don't really sound too convincing on their own.

  17. #166
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    The fans reps, themselves, said they could have done better on the communication front, last night.
    Really, who'd have thought that would be the case?

  18. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baldy Foghorn View Post
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    Maybe the Club should have canvassed every ST holder, but apart from that, they got their thinking and rational, behind their decision spot on IMO, there was much more to it than people assume
    Or even easier , just canvas every member of the hibs club why bother with the season ticket holder

  19. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes View Post
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    I was at the meeting last night and I thought Leeann and Rod spoke well and put forward the Club's position as well as they possibly could.

    Leeann's main argument was that she and the Club are totally focused on Hibs and the future and didn't want to be deflected by looking back at what happened in the past.

    Rod's main argument was that the Rangers situation was dealt with by the football authorities at the time; SPL/other Clubs and the SFA. He added that you could argue with the level of punishment (£250k fine, transfer embargo, Newco taking on Oldco's football debts) but you couldn't argue that the matter hadn't been dealt with at the time.

    Whilst I can understand Leeann's argument to an extent, I think that Rod's position is weak. The problem with it is, that there remains a real doubt as to whether the football authorities delivered a punishment to Newco which fitted the crime of Oldco. The reason being that the clubs had a vested interest in not punishing Newco too severely, due to self-interest and self-preservation (£s). Leeann actually eluded to the self-interest of other clubs in her opening contribution.

    An independent enquiry no doubt would have considered the self-interest issue and made recommendations which may have allowed everyone to look forward to the future with confidence. So for me, HFC's opposition to an independent review into the matter is disappointing and short-sighted.
    i think it's commendable that the club was prepared to engage with the support and I'm glad that the discussion was curteous.

    As a matter of interest did anyone actually try to pin RP down over the fundemental flaws in the Nimmo Smith enquiry with regards to its terms, the fact it was based on EBTs being legal which the Supreme Court found not to be the case and the fact that the enquiry was lied to?

    LDs admission about the clubs self interest (or at least their perceived self interest) is very telling. There is still no desire amongst the majority of clubs for a level playing field in Scottish Football.

    Did anŷone ask RP, in the spirit of moving on, specific ways in which lessons had been learnt by the SFA and how things had changed to enable us to be confident that matters would be dealt with differently in the future? Given the current state of Rangers' finanaces we may get a chance to find out.

    I remain disappointed in the club's attitude.

  20. #169
    First Team Regular ORAC's Avatar
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  21. #170
    @hibs.net private member Thecat23's Avatar
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    As The Rangers have carried on spending without a care in the world and the fact they DONT have the money to do it, shows LD and Petrie have learned nothing.

    Iíd like us to question this because itís clear to everyone in Scottish football they are still cheating. Sick to death of Hibs and others turning a blind eye to this. Grow a pair ffs and get these clown punished properly.

  22. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thecat23 View Post
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    As The Rangers have carried on spending without a care in the world and the fact they DONT have the money to do it, shows LD and Petrie have learned nothing.

    Iíd like us to question this because itís clear to everyone in Scottish football they are still cheating. Sick to death of Hibs and others turning a blind eye to this. Grow a pair ffs and get these clown punished properly.
    Think you are calling this one wrong Cat...

    Making a loss as a business isnít cheating...as long as you have the funding to continue paying your bills as the come due - currently, due to support of directors they have that funding - if that was to stop - their situation would change.

    Whilst not sustainable, and certainly not without risk, there is nothing illegal in what they are doing

  23. #172
    @hibs.net private member Thecat23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    Think you are calling this one wrong Cat...

    Making a loss as a business isnít cheating...as long as you have the funding to continue paying your bills as the come due - currently, due to support of directors they have that funding - if that was to stop - their situation would change.

    Whilst not sustainable, and certainly not without risk, there is nothing illegal in what they are doing
    The Rangers are on another level though. They will go pop soon itís a cert and I fully expect my club to bend over backwards to help them again. Hibs and the board have done amazing past few years but this is the one thing they have shat the bed on.

  24. #173
    Coaching Staff Ronniekirk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thecat23 View Post
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    The Rangers are on another level though. They will go pop soon itís a cert and I fully expect my club to bend over backwards to help them again. Hibs and the board have done amazing past few years but this is the one thing they have shat the bed on.
    Am in the pissed off camp but the harsh reality is they play the system and know the cards to play and how to influence the powers that be
    They know going forward that they can sell their season tickets , they will be back selling their own Merchandise Get bigger share of T V deals etc and they will always have people and corporate finance willing to invest when they get to point of challenging Celtic and back in Europe
    The latter was never going to happen quickly and we are now seeing a period of Transition which they are skilfully navigating
    They have created a situation where they now know there is no appetite by member clubs to take them on
    So i suspect they will continue to find ways to carry on
    There biggest problem now is getting the right Manager and Players Get that wrong again , go out of Europe early and have to sack another Manager would create another crises and could see change at Ibrox at Boardroom Level
    But Ozzy s point that people seem happy to sweep under the carpet remains There is no appetite to regulate some form of financial fair play structure when The Rangers are still going through this Transition Yet it was a fundamental point of the Sporting Integrity blurb and all clubs seemed up for it



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  25. #174
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thecat23 View Post
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    The Rangers are on another level though. They will go pop soon itís a cert and I fully expect my club to bend over backwards to help them again. Hibs and the board have done amazing past few years but this is the one thing they have shat the bed on.
    They need Europe to get close to surviving.

    We've seen in the past how far the Scottish football authorities were prepared to go to get them in Europe.

    There's no evidence that anything has changed.
    Space to let

  26. #175
    Coaching Staff King Dom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    You do realise that’s the fans reps are volunteers and can’t spend their whole lives doing this voluntary job? The fact they liaised and then fronted up a meeting to explain their decision seems fair enough to me. The petition and now subsequent witch hunt against the board is unnecessary and only brings disharmony to our club.
    I don't think it would have been difficult to send a few e-mails to admins of the social pages asking them to poll the user base asking for an opinion.

  27. #176
    @hibs.net private member Mikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes View Post
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    I was at the meeting last night and I thought Leeann and Rod spoke well and put forward the Club's position as well as they possibly could.

    Leeann's main argument was that she and the Club are totally focused on Hibs and the future and didn't want to be deflected by looking back at what happened in the past.

    Rod's main argument was that the Rangers situation was dealt with by the football authorities at the time; SPL/other Clubs and the SFA. He added that you could argue with the level of punishment (£250k fine, transfer embargo, Newco taking on Oldco's football debts) but you couldn't argue that the matter hadn't been dealt with at the time.

    Whilst I can understand Leeann's argument to an extent, I think that Rod's position is weak. The problem with it is, that there remains a real doubt as to whether the football authorities delivered a punishment to Newco which fitted the crime of Oldco. The reason being that the clubs had a vested interest in not punishing Newco too severely, due to self-interest and self-preservation (£s). Leeann actually eluded to the self-interest of other clubs in her opening contribution.

    An independent enquiry no doubt would have considered the self-interest issue and made recommendations which may have allowed everyone to look forward to the future with confidence. So for me, HFC's opposition to an independent review into the matter is disappointing and short-sighted.

    It's been mentioned previously that there is sensitive information that the club can't share. Did they give you any of that info?

  28. #177
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    We still have some of the same folk in charge, who were part of the huge cover up, when rangers went to the wall.

    The governing body, then tried every trick in the book to justify why they shouldn't apply the rules that were already there in place.

    There has been deals and cover ups galore, to ensure the new club made their way back to their rightful place, and we are supposed to just roll over and tickle their belly.

    And to cap it all off, after the lies and deceit, they even give one of them who lied through his teeth, a bloody job with the SFA.

    What harm could having an open independant review of the whole affair cause, unless those at the top table and i include Hibs in this, have something to hide?

    In any other sport, in any other country, we'd not be having this argument.
    Last edited by blackpoolhibs; 18-11-2017 at 11:03 AM.

  29. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes View Post
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    Whilst I can understand Leeann's argument to an extent, I think that Rod's position is weak. The problem with it is, that there remains a real doubt as to whether the football authorities delivered a punishment to Newco which fitted the crime of Oldco. The reason being that the clubs had a vested interest in not punishing Newco too severely, due to self-interest and self-preservation (£s). Leeann actually eluded to the self-interest of other clubs in her opening contribution.
    I have tried to see this in another way, but haven't managed to. If financial self-interest has been a, or the, major factor in the club's wanting to move on/sweep stuff under the carpet, isn't this basically saying, since the financial self-interest is ongoing, that the Glasgow Giants will continue to be allowed to do stuff in the future that no other clubs could get away with? Roll on the the thes.

  30. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    We still have some of the same folk in charge, who were part of the huge cover up, when rangers went to the wall.

    The governing body, then tried every trick in the book to justify why they shouldn't apply the rules that were already there in place.

    There has been deals and cover ups galore, to ensure the new club made their way back to their rightful place, and we are supposed to just roll over and tickle their belly.

    And to cap it all off, after the lies and deceit, they even give one of them who lied through his teeth, a bloody job with the SFA.

    What harm could having an open independant review of the whole affair cause, unless those at the top table and i include Hibs in this, have something to hide?

    In any other sport, in any other country, we'd not be having this argument.
    My feelings exactly. Certain clubs ignore the rules for their own self interest. They get away with it all the time. It is not in the long term interests of the game not to govern properly. Look at how a glib and shameless liar is allowed to own their club today. Scottish football needs a clean out of everyone who let this happen before we move on. Starting with Regan and Doncaster.

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