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  1. #181
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Malan & Bairstow held up their end but the tail had a shocker. England should have been able to bat Aus out of the game from 368/4. With Smith well set now it's looking like advantage Aus again. England need to be into the Aussie tail by the time of the 2nd new ball to stand any chance I think
    As long as I can remember, England have been prone to a collapse. It's probably no different from most sides, but it seems to happen to them with greater frequency (though maybe it's just that I watch them more often).

    I thought there was some decent fielding from Australia to mop things up. A couple of catches were outstanding.

    As for Smith, he really is a joy to watch.
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  3. #182
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Incredible play from Australia on day three and painful, painful stuff if you're an England fan (or player).

    If there's no swing, then England must feel they're already beaten, as soon as Smith walks on the pitch. Even when there is swing, they still aren't quite able to match up to Australia.

    While the day's play added another layer of cement to Smith's status as the best batsman in the world, lots of praise has to be reserved for Mitchell Marsh.

    When he came into bat, his Test average was in the low twenties I think. Without doing the math, I think it's fair to say that has increased somewhat now.......

    First session tomorrow should be fun. I'm expecting Australia to go for broke, chasing runs to build up as big a total as quickly as possible. Depending on how that pans out, there will be a declaration at some point - latter phase of the afternoon session, or perhaps earlier? That gives Australia four and a bit sessions to take ten wickets and if necessary, overtake any England second innings lead to win the Ashes.

    Big thing for me from day three was the emergence of those cracks on the pitch. England, with the partial exception of Overton, aren't quite fast enough to exploit them. Hazlewood, Starc and especially Cummins are, plus there's the additional pace of Mitchell Marsh. Australia will be able to work quicks at both ends and rest them by bringing in quicks at both ends - no respite for the England batsmen whatsoever.
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  4. #183
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Second ball in and Anderson snares Marsh lbw. Australia review and it's just, just, just an umpire's call for clipping the top of the stumps - the original decision was out however, so there he goes.

    Just what England needed and wanted at the start. Will this invigorate England or will Paine and the tail have a blast?
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  5. #184
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    And then Smith knocks his first boundary, easily clipped to the legside - normal business resumed?
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  6. #185
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    England use their last review spectacularly and get Smith, out for 239. Two wickets now for Anderson, which will boost his confidence.

    As it stands, Australia are ahead by 157. Question is whether their tail can wag.

    It's certainly as good a start as England could hope for.
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  7. #186
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Was about to type that in terms of managing the match, it's still with Australia IMO. The tail, Cummins especially, can add a few runs.

    Then Starc and Paine contrive a reaction to an England shout that ends up with Starc being run out - you couldn't make it up!

    Although it will make for an angry Starc when he has the ball in his hand.......

    England must be feeling good, but Australia will fancy the bowling, especially if they can get a margin of 200 or so to play with.
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  8. #187
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Cummins off the mark with a good shot that Stoneman just saves from being a boundary. Anderson looking more confident now but a poor delivery allows Paine to score four off the backfoot on the off-side. Interesting battle emerging.
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  9. #188
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    England use up a review on Paine - he was too far out of his crease for it to ever hit wicket, but perhaps the most important point is the opportunity arose from Anderson hitting a crack.

    The Aussie quicks will be loving the look of that pitch. It may qualify as unnecessarily gratuitous violence when they do get a shot on it though.

    As it stands, Cummins is on 3, but his average so far against England is a nice, round 50. He's quickly become my favourite Aussie player of the series, partly for his ferociously fast bowling, but also for his efforts in maintaining that fine tradition of mustachioed Australian quicks turning out to be decent batsmen who can add a bit onto the final score.

    For England, I'd probably give it to Bairstow. You can see how much it means to him and most sides would be glad to have a talent like that. He needs to be batting higher up the order though, even if that means passing on the gloves.
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  10. #189
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Particular attention for me on Broad, he tends to show his frustration more than most.

    His last over was heading towards a maiden before Paine clipped the last one on the offside for a boundary.

    Broad's now in excess of 110 without a wicket and his patience may be the better of him.
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  11. #190
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    Particular attention for me on Broad, he tends to show his frustration more than most.

    His last over was heading towards a maiden before Paine clipped the last one on the offside for a boundary.

    Broad's now in excess of 110 without a wicket and his patience may be the better of him.
    And he goes for eight of his next over. Australia a couple short of 600 and five of a 200-run lead.
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  12. #191
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Good over for Australia.

    They reach 600 and take a 200+lead.

    Cummins batting beautifully as well. At some point Australia will be done under the Trade Descriptions Act for playing him at number nine.

    Declaration might be quicker than I originally thought.
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  13. #192
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Classic shorter ball from Overton to Cummins.

    Cummins went for it and played it high, not quite a hook, and it could have been caught squareish leg, but it landed in lots of space.

    His next two shots were both on the offside, one fine and one to the covers, both aggressive shots designed to produce runs.

    I really like Cummins, I think England have met someone who will torment them for several series to come.
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  14. #193
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    Classic shorter ball from Overton to Cummins.

    Cummins went for it and played it high, not quite a hook, and it could have been caught squareish leg, but it landed in lots of space.

    His next two shots were both on the offside, one fine and one to the covers, both aggressive shots designed to produce runs.

    I really like Cummins, I think England have met someone who will torment them for several series to come.
    In saying all that, credit to Craig Overton.

    He wasn't anywhere close to first pick at the start of the series, he's playing with a cracked rib and he's still probably been the pick of the England attack so far.
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  15. #194
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    Another poor display from England’s openers. Looks like game over already.
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  16. #195
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    Another poor display from England’s openers. Looks like game over already.


    Cook will only add to the speculation that he's lost interest after another failed innings, though Hazlewood deserves credit for a great catch from his own bowling.

    Starc's delivery to take Vince's wicket was a beauty, more so because Vince was the only batsman who was looking like a threat. With that sort of surface to bowl on, Australia should make short order of the remaining English batsmen - all assuming that the Perth weather stays fair enough to give them time.

    If it does, that's the Ashes won as quickly as they could have been, and Australia are set for 5-0. If not, it gives England hope but one would expect the Australians to wrap it up at the MCG in the Boxing Day Test.
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  17. #196
    England 211-9

    Only one more wicket left for Aussies to win the Ashes.

  18. #197
    Coaching Staff --------'s Avatar
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    Well, that was nice. What am I supposed to do with the rest of my morning?

    Watch the 'highlights' at 1130, I guess.

    I hope Stokes is pleased with himself.

  19. #198
    @hibs.net private member Stonewall's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Doddie;5251195]Well, that was nice. What am I supposed to do with the rest of my morning?

    Watch the 'highlights' at 1130, I guess.

    I hope Stokes is pleased with himself. [/QUOTE

    Well the Aussies would have thought twice about winding him up. He should have gone on the tour.

  20. #199
    Coaching Staff --------'s Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Stonewall;5251699]
    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    Well, that was nice. What am I supposed to do with the rest of my morning?

    Watch the 'highlights' at 1130, I guess.

    I hope Stokes is pleased with himself. [/QUOTE

    Well the Aussies would have thought twice about winding him up. He should have gone on the tour.

    The England vice-captain shouldn't be getting into a drunken brawl a few weeks before an Ashes tour. He shouldn't be in a drunken brawl full-stop. That opened the door for the Australian media to portray the England squad as a beer-swilling, unruly bunch of 'lads'; Bairstow's head-butt and the Anderson incident didn't help, but the damage was done before the team got on the plane at Heathrow.

    England teams are on a hiding to nothing in Australia; Australian sports fans are masters of the double standard. If the squad had had a strict code of conduct laid down before arrival, that would have been big news - "Pommie Beer-Bongs Under Curfew" stories. If they try to relax and be themselves, something silly hits the headlines and "beer-swilling hooligan" stories hit the papers - Bairstow's head-butt and Anderson's hair-wash. They'd have laid into Stokes big-time, and anything he said or did in response would have been twisted into additional evidence of his criminal character - he would just have been stoking (sorry!) the media frenzy.

    When we think about it, none of this is in any way unusual behaviour in Australia. Australians do this sort of thing all the time - it's expected of an Aussie 'good bloke' that he can put away the lager and indulge in high jinks - the SCG Hill may have gone, but the knuckle-draggers are still around and vocal. While Australia's winning, they'll be happy and reasonably quiet. But if England find a performance on Boxing Day - and I so hope they do, Christmas miracle needed or not - they'll be out in full force demonstrating the 'sportsmanship and good humour' that's characterised Australian sporting attitudes since Australian sport began.

    1971 - a short-pitched delivery from John Snow unexpectedly keeps low on an uneven wicket, and Terry Jenner ducks into it and gets hit on the head. End of over, Snow goes down to the boundary to field, and gets pelted with obscenities, beer-cans, and bottles. The papers next day reported this as honest Aussie blokes outraged at an unwarranted and deliberate attack by Snow on Jenner. One accidental delivery.

    Skip forward a few years, and Ian Chappell has Thomson and Lillee genuinely bowling to injure opposing batsmen, and the honest Aussie blokes on the Hill join in, chanting "Kill, kill, kill ..." as the bowlers run in. Any complaints just prove that Poms (or Kiwis or Indians or Pakis or whoever) are wimps. Not real men.

    There are so many things Australian cricketers can do to their opponents that are outright cheating when the opponents do them to Australians. The only way to win in Australia is to be stronger than them, better than them, and totally focussed on grinding out the win. And as thick-skinned as a rhinoceros.

    Right now this England party are really popular in Oz - they've done what they were supposed to do and succumbed tamely in three Tests to surrender the Ashes. But if they were to show some consistent fight in the last 2 Tests, that'll change.

    I think England just need to write this series off, and start proper preparations for the return series in England now.

    And a final thought - one which I'm sure many have thought but no one has really spoken out loud -

    HOW EXACTLY DID THAT WATER GET UNDER THE COVERS AND ONTO THE PITCH WHERE IT DID, IN SUCH A GOOD PLACE FOR THE BOWLERS AND SUCH A BAD PLACE FOR THE BATSMEN?
    Last edited by --------; 19-12-2017 at 11:44 AM.

  21. #200
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    With the Boxing Day Test imminent, the talk seems to be that Tom Curran will replace the injured Carig Overton for England. Curran played well with bat and ball in the two-dayer against a Cricket Australia XI, and at 22 can definitely be considered a young talent.

    For Australia, there's still doubt about whether Starc will be fit. I'm sure he's desperate to play but if not, it looks like Jackson Bird, the Tasmanian seamer, will take his place. Bird has very respectable figures in Test and first-class cricket and will no doubt relish the opportunity.

    Tim Paine may also miss the game due to family reasons - that would suggest either Handscomb coming back in, or Bancroft dropping down the order to keep wicket, necessitating the Aussies bringing in a new opener.
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  22. #201
    Coaching Staff --------'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    With the Boxing Day Test imminent, the talk seems to be that Tom Curran will replace the injured Carig Overton for England. Curran played well with bat and ball in the two-dayer against a Cricket Australia XI, and at 22 can definitely be considered a young talent.

    For Australia, there's still doubt about whether Starc will be fit. I'm sure he's desperate to play but if not, it looks like Jackson Bird, the Tasmanian seamer, will take his place. Bird has very respectable figures in Test and first-class cricket and will no doubt relish the opportunity.

    Tim Paine may also miss the game due to family reasons - that would suggest either Handscomb coming back in, or Bancroft dropping down the order to keep wicket, necessitating the Aussies bringing in a new opener.

    Well, we'll see if Jimmy Anderson was right about the Aussies being thin on reserves ....

    I do feel that if England clicked all together and at once, they're perfectly capable of doing something here, but I have a horrid feeling that a whitewash's on the way.

    PS - Starc's out, Paine seems very doubtful.
    Last edited by --------; 24-12-2017 at 07:25 AM.

  23. #202
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    Well, we'll see if Jimmy Anderson was right about the Aussies being thin on reserves ....

    I do feel that if England clicked all together and at once, they're perfectly capable of doing something here, but I have a horrid feeling that a whitewash's on the way.

    PS - Starc's out, Paine seems very doubtful.
    This was England’s best chance of an away Ashes series win in a long time I suspect. Two big batters with experience and two of the best bowlers their country has produced, albeit happier on an English greentop than a baked Antipodean surface. Plus Bairstow and Moeen who offer a deep tail. They’ve got themselves into the top three in the world rankings over the last few years and there’s good reason for that. And this is very much an Australian side in transition - only really two batsmen who had nailed-down places and the pace attack had never played together before.......

    Next time England visit Australia they won’t have Cook, Anderson and likely Broad. That’s three genuinely world-class players needing replaced, or two plus Broad.

    There are some gifted youngsters to come, it looks like Curran will get his chance tomorrow, and the likes of Joe Clarke and Liam Livingstone are very talented, but there isn’t really any threat of pace, which you need to win in Australia.
    Last edited by Mibbes Aye; 25-12-2017 at 02:36 PM.
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  24. #203
    Testimonial Due hibby6270's Avatar
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    Aarrgghh!! See the weather in Melbourne this year is perfect. 27 C degrees and cloudless skies.
    I was there 11 years ago. Coldest Xmas ever in Melbourne. We had to buy jumpers to keep us warm!! Plus late start due to rain.
    Certainly not that today.

  25. #204
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    What is becoming somewhat disappointing about test match cricket is the fact that groundsman seems to produce a pitch that favours the home side. I’m old enough to remember when a pitch was prepared to be the best that the groundsman could manage. It was a matter of pride. Does anyone think This ashes series would have gone the same way if it was in England? I know there’s more factors in play than the pitch, but it’s becoming a big factor in the modern game.

    United we stand here....

  26. #205
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    What is becoming somewhat disappointing about test match cricket is the fact that groundsman seems to produce a pitch that favours the home side. I’m old enough to remember when a pitch was prepared to be the best that the groundsman could manage. It was a matter of pride. Does anyone think This ashes series would have gone the same way if it was in England? I know there’s more factors in play than the pitch, but it’s becoming a big factor in the modern game.
    I think you do see pitches that are 'prepared' but I can think of Tests where that's backfired as well.

    There's also a lot to be said for the natural process of developing as a player on your home nation's wickets. Part of the reason England struggle in Australia is that their bowlers learn their craft on greener, moister surfaces. Australian quicks are used to a harder, truer surface and their style of delivery reflects that.

    Two of the great rivalries for me were Australia vs the Windies from the mid-Eighties through to the mid-Nineties, and Australia vs South Africa through the Nineties. They were intensely competitive battles and I don't think it's a coincidence that those three sides played on broadly similar surfaces.

    Conversely, England benefit when Australia visit. When Australia did dominate on English soil, it was during that run of having huge strength in depth amongst the batting - Border, Taylor, Boon, the Waughs, Slater, Hayden, Langer, Healy, Gilchrist - as well as simply one of the greatest bowlers of all time, in Shane Warne, plus one of the other all-time greats in McGrath, who was un-Australian in that English pitches suited him.
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  27. #206
    Testimonial Due hibby6270's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    What is becoming somewhat disappointing about test match cricket is the fact that groundsman seems to produce a pitch that favours the home side. I’m old enough to remember when a pitch was prepared to be the best that the groundsman could manage. It was a matter of pride. Does anyone think This ashes series would have gone the same way if it was in England? I know there’s more factors in play than the pitch, but it’s becoming a big factor in the modern game.
    Another thing as well is that the pitch for the MCG game is a ‘drop in’ pitch apparently. I wasn't aware they did this for test matches. That must mean the pitch is ‘manufactured’ and takes away the natural effect of preparing a pitch on the overall square. Must make a difference.

    Thought it was only one day matches they used them. Pretty sure it’s not standard practice in England. Is it done anywhere else?

  28. #207
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Interesting first day's play at the MCG.

    Broad and Anderson actually performed okay and Curran didn't do badly on debut, though must be kicking himself for the no-ball to Warner on 99. Moeen's tour continues to be a trial for him though.

    Warner will be glad to get back in the runs and I wonder whether he will push on and pile up runs when they get to the SCG. Smith is just ridiculously good at the moment. Bancroft will have learned a lot from his innings, good for his longer-term development.

    Australia edged the day for me but it's reasonably well-poised. Growing up, England were usually good for a win once Australia had clinched the series and they're still in contention in this match. A lot depends on the first two sessions - Smith obviously, but the Marsh boys and Cummins have a lot of runs in them.
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  29. #208
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibby6270 View Post
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    Another thing as well is that the pitch for the MCG game is a ‘drop in’ pitch apparently. I wasn't aware they did this for test matches. That must mean the pitch is ‘manufactured’ and takes away the natural effect of preparing a pitch on the overall square. Must make a difference.

    Thought it was only one day matches they used them. Pretty sure it’s not standard practice in England. Is it done anywhere else?
    My understanding was they are pretty common in Australia and New Zealand, where grounds are used for different sports - the MCG hosts a lot of Aussie Rules football, but has also hosted rugby union, rugby league and soccer. Similarly, Eden Park in Auckland is the home ground for the Auckland Blues and regularly hosts the All Blacks, but has also done rugby league and soccer.

    It's different from the subcontinent, where cricket stadiums exist in their own right as stand-alone venues. It's part cultural, part seasonal - in Australia, essentially the summer is all about cricket, but in their winter it could be either rugby code, Aussie Rules, or soccer depending on things like geography and ethnicity. The stadia therefore tend to be dual or multi-purpose.
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  30. #209
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    Interesting first day's play at the MCG.

    Broad and Anderson actually performed okay and Curran didn't do badly on debut, though must be kicking himself for the no-ball to Warner on 99. Moeen's tour continues to be a trial for him though.

    Warner will be glad to get back in the runs and I wonder whether he will push on and pile up runs when they get to the SCG. Smith is just ridiculously good at the moment. Bancroft will have learned a lot from his innings, good for his longer-term development.

    Australia edged the day for me but it's reasonably well-poised. Growing up, England were usually good for a win once Australia had clinched the series and they're still in contention in this match. A lot depends on the first two sessions - Smith obviously, but the Marsh boys and Cummins have a lot of runs in them.
    I think it will go the same way as the previous three tests. England just don’t have enough depth in their batting. Stokes has been a huge loss.

    United we stand here....

  31. #210
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    I thought Shaun Marsh and Tim Paine both had decent, if somewhat different knocks. Both have amply justified their recalls for the series.

    That was some collapse from 5 down though. What's most frustrating for Darren Lehmann is that players were consistently going as a consequence of really poor decision-making. The pitch at the MCG has got absolutely no life in it but the Aussies were trying to play cut shots over and over, and just dragging the ball onto their stumps.

    At last some redemption for the England old guard, albeit too late to change the outcome of the series. Broad and Anderson bowled exceptionally and Cook finally found some form. I read that he is only the second overseas batsman to score a ton at the five main venues in Australia, following in the footsteps of the fantastic talent that was Sunil Gavaskar - that's some achievement. He played the right way for the pitch but one suspects he wasn't too unhappy about not facing Starc or a fully-fit Cummins.
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