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  1. #301
    @hibs.net private member --------'s Avatar
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    I've calmed down - honest.

    But just a thought.

    Who's the batting coach? Mark Ramprakash.

    I'm sure he's a nice guy, and I'm sure he does his best. He is, after all a former England Test batsman - IIRC batting 3 or 4, maybe 5?

    BUT - STATS.

    He played in 52 Tests, scoring 2350 runs at an average of 27.32.

    In all those Tests he scored 2 centuries and 12 half-centuries; top score 154.

    Do I detect a pattern? A coach moulding players in his own image?




    And I'm still not impressed by Trevor Bayliss.

    Though Paul Farbrace seems to have a much more realistic view of the situation.
    Last edited by --------; 09-01-2018 at 12:36 AM.


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  3. #302
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    I've calmed down - honest.

    But just a thought.

    Who's the batting coach? Mark Ramprakash.

    I'm sure he's a nice guy, and I'm sure he does his best. He is, after all a former England Test batsman - IIRC batting 3 or 4, maybe 5?

    BUT - STATS.

    He played in 52 Tests, scoring 2350 runs at an average of 27.32.

    In all those Tests he scored 2 centuries and 12 half-centuries; top score 154.

    Do I detect a pattern? A coach moulding players in his own image?




    And I'm still not impressed by Trevor Bayliss.

    Though Paul Farbrace seems to have a much more realistic view of the situation.
    'Ramps' is indeed the coach. Fine first-class player but an eternal failure at Test level.
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  4. #303
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42617727

    Looks like we're stuck with Bayliss.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42607644

    Lot of sense here from Aggers. Totally agree about the Bairstow business, and about the home-and-away split in form.

    It'll be interesting to see what happens in NZ.

  5. #304
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42617727

    Looks like we're stuck with Bayliss.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42607644

    Lot of sense here from Aggers. Totally agree about the Bairstow business, and about the home-and-away split in form.

    It'll be interesting to see what happens in NZ.
    NZ should be slightly more favourable wickets but England will still have to face a very passionate team and in Kane Williamson, one of the top batsmen in the world, who is yet to make a big score this season. Sounds like it is scripted already.

    Interesting where England go from here. I remember them in the eighties and nineties, where they dropped several players every game and it simply didn't work. Nevertheless Toby Roland-Jones would appear to be an obvious choice when fit. Craig Overton did just enough to justify a run, when fit.

    It's the batting where the most change is needed. I would be wanting and expecting England to go back to Haseeb Hameed, which would justify a transition from Cook to Stoneman, as the senior opener. If Root won't move to three (which is an abdication of responsibility IMO) then we are looking at Malan moving up, quite the promotion.

    Bairstow needs to bat higher, at five IMO. If he can't do that and keep wicket then I would bring in Foakes at eight, with the gloves, behind Bairstow, Stokes and Ali. That's a deep tail.

    England simply don't have bowling pace and with the nature of the home schedule they don't really need to. I've heard good things about George Garton and Jofra Archer but both are still a way away from the Test side.

    That being the case they need to play to their strengths, which at the moment is a very deep batting order. They need to try and sustain that while bleeding in a new attack. Roland-Jones, if fit, can replace either Broad or Anderson. Overton has been keen but it's doubtful whether he has the capability of being one of the two senior seamers. And there's a gap in the spinning department that Mason Crane may or may notfill.

    For all the talk about the Australian quicks, their spinner still took 20+ wickets and dominated a predominantly left-sided England batting line-up. Moeen is a batsman who can deliver a bit of spin. They need to find a spinner who justifies selection on his bowling abilities alone.
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  6. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    NZ should be slightly more favourable wickets but England will still have to face a very passionate team and in Kane Williamson, one of the top batsmen in the world, who is yet to make a big score this season. Sounds like it is scripted already.

    Interesting where England go from here. I remember them in the eighties and nineties, where they dropped several players every game and it simply didn't work. Nevertheless Toby Roland-Jones would appear to be an obvious choice when fit. Craig Overton did just enough to justify a run, when fit.

    It's the batting where the most change is needed. I would be wanting and expecting England to go back to Haseeb Hameed, which would justify a transition from Cook to Stoneman, as the senior opener. If Root won't move to three (which is an abdication of responsibility IMO) then we are looking at Malan moving up, quite the promotion.

    Bairstow needs to bat higher, at five IMO. If he can't do that and keep wicket then I would bring in Foakes at eight, with the gloves, behind Bairstow, Stokes and Ali. That's a deep tail.

    England simply don't have bowling pace and with the nature of the home schedule they don't really need to. I've heard good things about George Garton and Jofra Archer but both are still a way away from the Test side.

    That being the case they need to play to their strengths, which at the moment is a very deep batting order. They need to try and sustain that while bleeding in a new attack. Roland-Jones, if fit, can replace either Broad or Anderson. Overton has been keen but it's doubtful whether he has the capability of being one of the two senior seamers. And there's a gap in the spinning department that Mason Crane may or may notfill.

    For all the talk about the Australian quicks, their spinner still took 20+ wickets and dominated a predominantly left-sided England batting line-up. Moeen is a batsman who can deliver a bit of spin. They need to find a spinner who justifies selection on his bowling abilities alone.

    I would agree with almost all of this.

    Reasonable stability in selection while looking to find and/or develop the players they don't yet have - genuinely fast bowlers and spinners of quality to justify their selection on the basis of their bowling alone (they've had them in the past).

    And batsmen who can make 25-30 (they've got plenty of those) and then go on to make 50 and then 100.

    Not a lot to ask!
    Last edited by --------; 09-01-2018 at 11:10 PM.

  7. #306
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    I would agree with almost all of this.

    Reasonable stability in selection while looking to find and/or develop the players they don't yet have - genuinely fast bowlers and spinners of quality to justify their selection on the basis of their bowling alone (they've had them in the past).

    And batsmen who can make 25-30 (they've got plenty of those) and then go on to make 50 and then 100.

    Not a lot to ask!
    Stoneman, Hameed, Malan, Root, Bairstow, Clarke, Stokes, Ali, Overton, Roland-Jones, Garton is a top-of-the-head option for 2019 that allows for Broad, Cook and Anderson dropping out. If any of those three are still fit and equipped to play then all the better for England. If Bairstow can't wear the gloves and bat at five then he can drop to six, seven or eight, or Foakes comes in for Clarke. Clarke is interchangeable with Livingstone or Lawrence at this stage, I've no idea which of them might manage at Test level but they are the leading young contenders.

    Getting back to Bairstow I'm sure Gilchrist batted at seven, maybe six sometimes, and he opened in the one-dayers, so there's no excuse for Bairstow not moving up the order. The limited but dedicated audience for this thread will be well-used to me bemoaning Root's failing to move up the order, Malan might save him the bother, but Root should assume some responsibility as captain and slot into three.

    That would mean around two-thirds of the team being inexperienced or indeed debutants but you've got to start somewhere. For the newbies, Hameed and Malan look to be long-term solutions. Garton, and to an extent Foakes or Clarke are a gamble but if successful would offer a lot of years. Overton is similarly young but looks like a jobbing third or fourth seamer, who has the advantage of being able to throw the bat about a bit. Mason Crane looked promising but has yet to prove himself.

    In fairness, Australia have to settle on a team as well - they look to have a bowling unit for at least the next five years but at bat only Warner and Smith are stick-ons with perhaps Mitchell Marsh as an all-rounder. They need to nail down their order and as per England perhaps need to push Smith up to three..
    Last edited by Mibbes Aye; 10-01-2018 at 04:58 AM.
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  8. #307
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    There's been some talk about the disadvantage faced by the away team in Test cricket.

    I read this BBC article earlier which gets into the detail of it all and was, I thought, quite interesting.

    One of the key points for me is the nature of the touring schedule. Teams don't seem to have the patient and slow build-up away from home that they used to. England faced a CA XI twice and Western Australia in a two-dayer. That's not adequate preparation. The only Test players or contenders they faced were Tim Paine in one game and Nathan Coulter-Nile in another.

    Yet despite that lack of preparation for the red-ball game, England won't be back home until April. I think it all reflects the pressures of trying to cram in the three forms of the game. There's a bigger market for a couple of T20 blasts than there is for a four-dayer in Canberra against the Chairman's XI. Unfortunately it's those four-dayers against a competitive select that allow touring teams to get up to speed for the Test series.
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  9. #308
    @hibs.net private member stantonhibby's Avatar
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    Curran dropped from the squad for NZ which seems a bit harsh. Stokes is in the squad.

  10. #309
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stantonhibby View Post
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    Curran dropped from the squad for NZ which seems a bit harsh. Stokes is in the squad.
    I think it's harsh too but with Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Overton and Wood all in then he wouldn't get a game. I think England are making that commonplace mistake of re-fighting their last battle, Wood could have done a job in Australia if fit. NZ pitches aren't quite the same.

    I think it would have been a vote of confidence in Curran and a nod to the future to include him. Glad to see Livingstone included though.

    Also curious to see who Australia take to South Africa. The temptation will be to stick with the same but there's room for tweaking in the upper order.
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  11. #310
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Entertaining first ODI between the two sides, Australia did decently in the first innings but England have a deep batting order in 50-over cricket that critically can be very fast-paced.

    It does raise the 'what if' question around the keepers' gloves in the Test side. It looks like Buttler has long given up on a red-ball career and Bairstow is probably the better keeper - they are roughly the same age but with different career trajectories and Bairstow's stats are possibly slightly better, though it's open to interpretation.

    Were Buttler to come in and Bairstow to be persuaded to pass the gloves then it allows the intriguing option of Jonny being asked to open (as he does in ODIs), as an explosive 'take the game to the opposition' player in the manner of David Warner. Can't see it happening though, and Ben Stokes being charged probably makes it even less likely. With the scenario I outlined there was the potential for Stokes to bat at five with one of the new youngsters, Buttler, Ali and Woakes all to follow, which gives England real depth but also quick-scoring depth (on home soil at least) in their batting.

    Looking forward to the rest of the ODI series.

    On another continent, I've been enjoying the play between South Africa and India too. The Second Test is nicely poised with India needing the win to stay alive. Interestingly, given the talk earlier in the thread about 'home' pitches, Morne Morkel came out and said Centurion was playing more like an Indian pitch and it's fair to say he wasn't exaggerating - I think unusually high humidity has made the difference. Some really talented players on display in this series and the outcome will set up the Australian tour nicely, whichever way it ends up.
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  12. #311
    People say that touring countries are at a disadvantage when abroad due to pitches etc. Surely it is up to the touring countries to adapt their squad to best suit the conditions then. Now whether ya believe Mark Wood was fit for England or not (seems like he was having gone 10 good overs in first ODI) England needed to include 1/2 real pace bowlers who get some bounce out of the pitch. Theyíre insistence on sticking with the old guard doesnít help anyone.

  13. #312
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HibernianJK View Post
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    People say that touring countries are at a disadvantage when abroad due to pitches etc. Surely it is up to the touring countries to adapt their squad to best suit the conditions then. Now whether ya believe Mark Wood was fit for England or not (seems like he was having gone 10 good overs in first ODI) England needed to include 1/2 real pace bowlers who get some bounce out of the pitch. Theyíre insistence on sticking with the old guard doesnít help anyone.
    There's an argument that England just aren't producing Test bowlers who can deliver real pace. It's not that it's impossible - Steve Harmison was considered one of the fastest in the world a few years ago and he had Simon Jones and occasionally Flintoff reaching 90+mph.

    One reason put forward is the proliferation of the shorter game - English summers are now built around the popular and profitable T20 and 50-over games, with the County Championship games pushed to the start and the end of the season. The County Championship should be the breeding ground for Test players but playing games at the start and end generally means softer pitches which reward the kind of persistent seam bowling that has made Anderson and Broad so successful.

    All in all it seems to reflect a very conservative outlook, that must be a conscious decision by the National Cricket Performance Centre, wherby overseas opportunities are sacrificed to maximise home chances.
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  14. #313
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Entertaining end to the SAF-India Test with the South Africans securing the series.

    I was sorry to see Dale Steyn miss out through injury but Lungi Ndidi came in on debut and produced a pretty accomplished six-for. SAF have a fiercesome pace attack and the series against Australia is a mouth-watering prospect.

    Philander and Morkel still have a few years in them, you would imagine, and then you have Kabiso Rabada and Ndidi, who are in their early twenties and look like they might easily transition into being the senior attack pair, allowing the next couple of quicks to come through.

    Some really good fielding by the South Africans to wrap up the game also.
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  15. #314
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    England really did well in the second ODI - such strength in their batting order, which allows them to play with a certain abandon. It bodes well for next year's World Cup.

    Woakes delivered what I'd hoped for in the Test series - reliable, economical bowling and a flourish with the bat. Bairstow and Hales put together a fine stand to set the foundation for victory, and Root will have taken a lot of pleasure from his performance in both innings.

    For Australia, obviously Hazlewood, Cummins and Paine all missing - I liked the look of Alex Carey who debuted with the gloves. He is a late starter - I understand he was playing top-flight Aussie Rules until four or so years ago. Early days yet, but he might be a long-term solution behind the stumps for Australia. Likewise Jhye Richardson looked tidy with his two wickets, but he's barely played any first-class cricket yet, so there's a fair way to go.

    Quite the turnaround for England - after being trounced in the Test series, they go into the weekend looking to win the ODI series with two matches to spare!
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  16. #315
    Testimonial Due ACLeith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    England really did well in the second ODI - such strength in their batting order, which allows them to play with a certain abandon. It bodes well for next year's World Cup.

    Woakes delivered what I'd hoped for in the Test series - reliable, economical bowling and a flourish with the bat. Bairstow and Hales put together a fine stand to set the foundation for victory, and Root will have taken a lot of pleasure from his performance in both innings.

    For Australia, obviously Hazlewood, Cummins and Paine all missing - I liked the look of Alex Carey who debuted with the gloves. He is a late starter - I understand he was playing top-flight Aussie Rules until four or so years ago. Early days yet, but he might be a long-term solution behind the stumps for Australia. Likewise Jhye Richardson looked tidy with his two wickets, but he's barely played any first-class cricket yet, so there's a fair way to go.

    Quite the turnaround for England - after being trounced in the Test series, they go into the weekend looking to win the ODI series with two matches to spare!
    I've enjoyed your comments and analysis over the series, what do you see are the main factors in the difference in performance between the 2 codes?

  17. #316
    England seem to have a really good settled one day side. Stokes will
    Come back in but apart from that it seems a very settled 11. They have so many options with the bat and ball.

  18. #317
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACLeith View Post
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    I've enjoyed your comments and analysis over the series, what do you see are the main factors in the difference in performance between the 2 codes?
    Thanks for that! If you mean the difference between how England perform, my opinion is that it's indicative of two different mindsets, one radical, one conservative.

    At the last World Cup in 2015, England went out at the group stage in ignominious circumstances - thumped by Australia, New Zealand and Sri Lanka, and beaten by Bangladesh. It was pretty much rock-bottom for them and in the aftermath they decided to go for a complete overhaul of the one-day set-up. They revamped the contracts system to ensure players were better-paid and brought in a coach who had been successful in the limited-overs format (I won't mention him by name as it will get Doddie wound up!).

    I think there were two other things that were more important yet, however. Firstly they changed the overall schedule to prioritise 50-over and T20 in the middle of summer. This pushed County cricket to either end of the season. More of that later. They also, crucially, encouraged players to participate in foreign leagues, especially the IPL. This allowed English players to play in a fiercely competitive environment, alongside the best T20 players in the world.

    As a consequence English players and batsmen especially have developed their game and that's led to an almost embarrassment of riches in the batting order. Critically they all seem imbued with a very attacking spirit which means that they are taking the game to the opposition from the start and aren't reliant on one or two players, as there are runs all the way down into the bowling unit. The one-day side also have far more variety in the bowling. They can call on a couple of genuinely pace bowlers, a left-arm quick, and both an off-spinner and a leg-spinner.

    It's this strength that means they don't rely on Ben Stokes the way the Test side does, among other things. His absence doesn't necessitate a rethink of team selection - in a Test match you don't know with any certainty how long you will be batting and bowling for, so having someone who can multi-task well like Stokes is vital. In limited-overs you know you will bat and bowl for x overs and decide the balance of the team based on your strength and the opposition, there's far fewer variables. Essentially, the utility of an all-rounder isn't quite as important (though Stokes' talent with bat and ball and his sheer aggression means that he would still be a stick-on for selection IMO).

    Switching to the Test side, there doesn't seem to be the same desire to seek a radical solution to their woes. The English Test side are essentially two different beasts - a home side who are dominant (think they're unbeaten in eight series now and have won the majority) but unable to compete away - they've only one one away series of the last eight, and in five of those series they failed to win a single match!

    One could be forgiven for making the assumption that the ECB have decided to settle for this outcome, in order to pursue success in limited-over cricket. To some extent it's hard to blame them as the game is being inexorably drawn in that direction, but by the same token, England are only hastening that process by their actions.

    Coming back to the change to the schedule, this reinforces the difference between home and away performance. Pushing County cricket to the start and end of the season means that bowlers are learning their craft in the longer version of the game in conditions which don't suit out-and-out pace but do reward the kind of nagging seam bowling that has propelled Jimmy Anderson into the top ten all-time wicket-takers. It makes it harder for England to produce bowlers with the skill and thinking to bowl as genuine quicks over a five-day match.

    Sorry for the length of answer, I do think the way the two codes are evolving is fascinating though. I really enjoy the razzmatazz of the T20 game and there's a lot to be said for the 50-over game and how sides pace themselves and change gears. Neither format will ever come close to the majesty of a good Test match for me though. There's a thread on another forum about "Things you don't 'get'" and someone posted 'Cricket' and a few posters replied explaining why they did love it and emphasising that it's just a very different experience to something timebound in the manner of football or rugby. Perhaps that's true of T20 and ODI too - it might be 22 players with some stumps, bats and ball but it can't really be understood or experienced in the same way as Test cricket?
    Last edited by Mibbes Aye; 20-01-2018 at 08:30 PM.
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  19. #318
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Interesting start to the third ODI with England finding it difficult to unleash their batting attack on a slow pitch, while Australia have the big guns back in their seam attack. Which leaves it all at 95-3 approaching the twentieth over.

    Iíve opted for TMS tonight/this morning, rather than watching on BT. Iím glad because itís been a pleasure to listen to the commentary of the great Jim Maxwell, the sonorous and ever-so-knowledgable Australian commentator who usually helms ABC in his homeland but is doing a bit of coverage for the Beeb.

    Iíve also been impressed with Phil Tufnell. He seems to strike the right balance on TMS -makes sure he describes the delivery and can talk about the dynamics of the match and bring in his own experience and knowledge, yet still capable of a fanciful digression between balls, in the spirit of those who held the mic before him. I think he might become a fixture.
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  20. #319
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    And Root falls, Australia arenít wanting to lose this series today!

    Big psychological blow for England though Jos Buttler, the new batsman, is more than capable of turning a game around.
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  21. #320
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    And England lose a wicket just as they were hoping to accelerate. Morgan falls to make it 172-5 and their likely end score drops accordingly.
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  22. #321
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Good wicket for Marsh to snap Moeen. Poor guy hasn’t had his troubles to seek on this tour. Hopefully he finds his form as he’s a very exciting player when he’s on his game and his bowling was picking up in the last two ODIs.
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  23. #322
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    What a fantastic partnership between Buttler and Woakes to see out the innings!

    With two overs to go it was advantage Australia, but the two aforementioned went for it, piled on the runs and reached a century and a half-century respectively, while giving England a winnable score to defend.

    Said it before, I’m relally pleased for Woakes. My natural sympathy is with Australia but that would never get in the way of appreciating good cricket or a good turn by a particular player. Woakes had a chastening Ashes but has batted well in the ODIs and hopefully he finds his length and line when he bowls.
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  24. #323
    Smith given out but looks like itís hit the deck for me. Under review.

  25. #324
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Great win for England to take the series, they deserve congratulations. In bowling I thought Wood was good and Woakes performed well, though his figures might not say as much, but given his performance with the bat then he's had a really great game.

    For Australia, Finch was big again and showed why he's a prize catch in the IPL auction. I thought Stoinis did well also. Thinking about the World Cup next year, England don't need to do much and Australia have to figure out what their best XI is, and critically whether Glenn Maxwell will be part of that.

    Going back to the game, I think Steve Smith was right to voice his concern about the 'soft signal'. It doesn't sit easy with me either.

    Still, big boost for England after the Ashes collapse and they will fancy themselves for the whitewash.
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  26. #325
    Testimonial Due hibby6270's Avatar
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    One for the future.
    Watch out for Lloyd Pope. Aussie leg spinner.
    Watching the U19 World Cup QF earlier - AUS v ENG.
    Eng bowled Aus out for 127 in 34 overs. Easy chase you would think.
    Enter Mr Pope. Skittled England. 98 all out. Pope took 8 for 35.
    Some performance, even at that level!!

  27. #326
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibby6270 View Post
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    One for the future.
    Watch out for Lloyd Pope. Aussie leg spinner.
    Watching the U19 World Cup QF earlier - AUS v ENG.
    Eng bowled Aus out for 127 in 34 overs. Easy chase you would think.
    Enter Mr Pope. Skittled England. 98 all out. Pope took 8 for 35.
    Some performance, even at that level!!
    Good shout.

    Iíve recorded the highlights, looking forward to watching them now.
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  28. #327
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Great two sessions in the first day of the Third Test between South Africa and India.

    India having to bat their socks off to stay in the game, with a fiercesome five-pronged South African seam attack that's generating lots of swing. Ngidi is the pick of the bunch so far, in only his second Test. Looks like he's got a big future. Final session just beginning, will be interesting to see what's left of India by the close of play.
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  29. #328
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    And that's that, SAF bowl India all out for 187. Pujara put on a stoic stand for his 50 from 179 balls but the pressure the South Africans were able to exert was relentless - five seamers, all bowling well and generating swing. Just no respite for the Indians though their quicks will fancy they can get something from this pitch.
    There's only one thing better than a Hibs calendar and that's two Hibs calendars

  30. #329
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Tasty pitch still, with the Indians snatching a wicket and SAF sending in the nightwatchman to see the day out. You can tell there's something in the surface when you hear the commentator talk about four slips
    There's only one thing better than a Hibs calendar and that's two Hibs calendars

  31. #330
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibby6270 View Post
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    One for the future.
    Watch out for Lloyd Pope. Aussie leg spinner.
    Watching the U19 World Cup QF earlier - AUS v ENG.
    Eng bowled Aus out for 127 in 34 overs. Easy chase you would think.
    Enter Mr Pope. Skittled England. 98 all out. Pope took 8 for 35.
    Some performance, even at that level!!
    Just watched the highlights

    I thought Dillon Pennington, for England, looked handy with the ball, one for the future. He's with Worcs who have a decent record of blooding in young talent to County cricket, maybe most especially the very exciting Joe Clarke. Similarly Tom Banton looked like he might be something special with the bat - he also keeps wicket so we might yet have another contender to allow Bairstow to move up the order in the Test side.

    What a brilliant recovery by Australia though, or rather by the ginger-maned Lloyd Pope. England simply couldn't play him. Credit too, to Sangha, fielding in the slips - three great catches of Pope's bowling.
    There's only one thing better than a Hibs calendar and that's two Hibs calendars

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