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  1. #301
    Gentleman of Leisure Doddie's Avatar
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    I've calmed down - honest.

    But just a thought.

    Who's the batting coach? Mark Ramprakash.

    I'm sure he's a nice guy, and I'm sure he does his best. He is, after all a former England Test batsman - IIRC batting 3 or 4, maybe 5?

    BUT - STATS.

    He played in 52 Tests, scoring 2350 runs at an average of 27.32.

    In all those Tests he scored 2 centuries and 12 half-centuries; top score 154.

    Do I detect a pattern? A coach moulding players in his own image?




    And I'm still not impressed by Trevor Bayliss.

    Though Paul Farbrace seems to have a much more realistic view of the situation.
    Last edited by Doddie; 09-01-2018 at 01:36 AM.


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  3. #302
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    I've calmed down - honest.

    But just a thought.

    Who's the batting coach? Mark Ramprakash.

    I'm sure he's a nice guy, and I'm sure he does his best. He is, after all a former England Test batsman - IIRC batting 3 or 4, maybe 5?

    BUT - STATS.

    He played in 52 Tests, scoring 2350 runs at an average of 27.32.

    In all those Tests he scored 2 centuries and 12 half-centuries; top score 154.

    Do I detect a pattern? A coach moulding players in his own image?




    And I'm still not impressed by Trevor Bayliss.

    Though Paul Farbrace seems to have a much more realistic view of the situation.
    'Ramps' is indeed the coach. Fine first-class player but an eternal failure at Test level.
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  4. #303
    Gentleman of Leisure Doddie's Avatar
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42617727

    Looks like we're stuck with Bayliss.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42607644

    Lot of sense here from Aggers. Totally agree about the Bairstow business, and about the home-and-away split in form.

    It'll be interesting to see what happens in NZ.


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  5. #304
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42617727

    Looks like we're stuck with Bayliss.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42607644

    Lot of sense here from Aggers. Totally agree about the Bairstow business, and about the home-and-away split in form.

    It'll be interesting to see what happens in NZ.
    NZ should be slightly more favourable wickets but England will still have to face a very passionate team and in Kane Williamson, one of the top batsmen in the world, who is yet to make a big score this season. Sounds like it is scripted already.

    Interesting where England go from here. I remember them in the eighties and nineties, where they dropped several players every game and it simply didn't work. Nevertheless Toby Roland-Jones would appear to be an obvious choice when fit. Craig Overton did just enough to justify a run, when fit.

    It's the batting where the most change is needed. I would be wanting and expecting England to go back to Haseeb Hameed, which would justify a transition from Cook to Stoneman, as the senior opener. If Root won't move to three (which is an abdication of responsibility IMO) then we are looking at Malan moving up, quite the promotion.

    Bairstow needs to bat higher, at five IMO. If he can't do that and keep wicket then I would bring in Foakes at eight, with the gloves, behind Bairstow, Stokes and Ali. That's a deep tail.

    England simply don't have bowling pace and with the nature of the home schedule they don't really need to. I've heard good things about George Garton and Jofra Archer but both are still a way away from the Test side.

    That being the case they need to play to their strengths, which at the moment is a very deep batting order. They need to try and sustain that while bleeding in a new attack. Roland-Jones, if fit, can replace either Broad or Anderson. Overton has been keen but it's doubtful whether he has the capability of being one of the two senior seamers. And there's a gap in the spinning department that Mason Crane may or may notfill.

    For all the talk about the Australian quicks, their spinner still took 20+ wickets and dominated a predominantly left-sided England batting line-up. Moeen is a batsman who can deliver a bit of spin. They need to find a spinner who justifies selection on his bowling abilities alone.
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  6. #305
    Gentleman of Leisure Doddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    NZ should be slightly more favourable wickets but England will still have to face a very passionate team and in Kane Williamson, one of the top batsmen in the world, who is yet to make a big score this season. Sounds like it is scripted already.

    Interesting where England go from here. I remember them in the eighties and nineties, where they dropped several players every game and it simply didn't work. Nevertheless Toby Roland-Jones would appear to be an obvious choice when fit. Craig Overton did just enough to justify a run, when fit.

    It's the batting where the most change is needed. I would be wanting and expecting England to go back to Haseeb Hameed, which would justify a transition from Cook to Stoneman, as the senior opener. If Root won't move to three (which is an abdication of responsibility IMO) then we are looking at Malan moving up, quite the promotion.

    Bairstow needs to bat higher, at five IMO. If he can't do that and keep wicket then I would bring in Foakes at eight, with the gloves, behind Bairstow, Stokes and Ali. That's a deep tail.

    England simply don't have bowling pace and with the nature of the home schedule they don't really need to. I've heard good things about George Garton and Jofra Archer but both are still a way away from the Test side.

    That being the case they need to play to their strengths, which at the moment is a very deep batting order. They need to try and sustain that while bleeding in a new attack. Roland-Jones, if fit, can replace either Broad or Anderson. Overton has been keen but it's doubtful whether he has the capability of being one of the two senior seamers. And there's a gap in the spinning department that Mason Crane may or may notfill.

    For all the talk about the Australian quicks, their spinner still took 20+ wickets and dominated a predominantly left-sided England batting line-up. Moeen is a batsman who can deliver a bit of spin. They need to find a spinner who justifies selection on his bowling abilities alone.

    I would agree with almost all of this.

    Reasonable stability in selection while looking to find and/or develop the players they don't yet have - genuinely fast bowlers and spinners of quality to justify their selection on the basis of their bowling alone (they've had them in the past).

    And batsmen who can make 25-30 (they've got plenty of those) and then go on to make 50 and then 100.

    Not a lot to ask!
    Last edited by Doddie; 10-01-2018 at 12:10 AM.


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  7. #306
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    I would agree with almost all of this.

    Reasonable stability in selection while looking to find and/or develop the players they don't yet have - genuinely fast bowlers and spinners of quality to justify their selection on the basis of their bowling alone (they've had them in the past).

    And batsmen who can make 25-30 (they've got plenty of those) and then go on to make 50 and then 100.

    Not a lot to ask!
    Stoneman, Hameed, Malan, Root, Bairstow, Clarke, Stokes, Ali, Overton, Roland-Jones, Garton is a top-of-the-head option for 2019 that allows for Broad, Cook and Anderson dropping out. If any of those three are still fit and equipped to play then all the better for England. If Bairstow can't wear the gloves and bat at five then he can drop to six, seven or eight, or Foakes comes in for Clarke. Clarke is interchangeable with Livingstone or Lawrence at this stage, I've no idea which of them might manage at Test level but they are the leading young contenders.

    Getting back to Bairstow I'm sure Gilchrist batted at seven, maybe six sometimes, and he opened in the one-dayers, so there's no excuse for Bairstow not moving up the order. The limited but dedicated audience for this thread will be well-used to me bemoaning Root's failing to move up the order, Malan might save him the bother, but Root should assume some responsibility as captain and slot into three.

    That would mean around two-thirds of the team being inexperienced or indeed debutants but you've got to start somewhere. For the newbies, Hameed and Malan look to be long-term solutions. Garton, and to an extent Foakes or Clarke are a gamble but if successful would offer a lot of years. Overton is similarly young but looks like a jobbing third or fourth seamer, who has the advantage of being able to throw the bat about a bit. Mason Crane looked promising but has yet to prove himself.

    In fairness, Australia have to settle on a team as well - they look to have a bowling unit for at least the next five years but at bat only Warner and Smith are stick-ons with perhaps Mitchell Marsh as an all-rounder. They need to nail down their order and as per England perhaps need to push Smith up to three..
    Last edited by Mibbes Aye; 10-01-2018 at 05:58 AM.
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  8. #307
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    There's been some talk about the disadvantage faced by the away team in Test cricket.

    I read this BBC article earlier which gets into the detail of it all and was, I thought, quite interesting.

    One of the key points for me is the nature of the touring schedule. Teams don't seem to have the patient and slow build-up away from home that they used to. England faced a CA XI twice and Western Australia in a two-dayer. That's not adequate preparation. The only Test players or contenders they faced were Tim Paine in one game and Nathan Coulter-Nile in another.

    Yet despite that lack of preparation for the red-ball game, England won't be back home until April. I think it all reflects the pressures of trying to cram in the three forms of the game. There's a bigger market for a couple of T20 blasts than there is for a four-dayer in Canberra against the Chairman's XI. Unfortunately it's those four-dayers against a competitive select that allow touring teams to get up to speed for the Test series.
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  9. #308
    @hibs.net private member stantonhibby's Avatar
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    Curran dropped from the squad for NZ which seems a bit harsh. Stokes is in the squad.

  10. #309
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stantonhibby View Post
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    Curran dropped from the squad for NZ which seems a bit harsh. Stokes is in the squad.
    I think it's harsh too but with Anderson, Broad, Woakes, Overton and Wood all in then he wouldn't get a game. I think England are making that commonplace mistake of re-fighting their last battle, Wood could have done a job in Australia if fit. NZ pitches aren't quite the same.

    I think it would have been a vote of confidence in Curran and a nod to the future to include him. Glad to see Livingstone included though.

    Also curious to see who Australia take to South Africa. The temptation will be to stick with the same but there's room for tweaking in the upper order.
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  11. #310
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Entertaining first ODI between the two sides, Australia did decently in the first innings but England have a deep batting order in 50-over cricket that critically can be very fast-paced.

    It does raise the 'what if' question around the keepers' gloves in the Test side. It looks like Buttler has long given up on a red-ball career and Bairstow is probably the better keeper - they are roughly the same age but with different career trajectories and Bairstow's stats are possibly slightly better, though it's open to interpretation.

    Were Buttler to come in and Bairstow to be persuaded to pass the gloves then it allows the intriguing option of Jonny being asked to open (as he does in ODIs), as an explosive 'take the game to the opposition' player in the manner of David Warner. Can't see it happening though, and Ben Stokes being charged probably makes it even less likely. With the scenario I outlined there was the potential for Stokes to bat at five with one of the new youngsters, Buttler, Ali and Woakes all to follow, which gives England real depth but also quick-scoring depth (on home soil at least) in their batting.

    Looking forward to the rest of the ODI series.

    On another continent, I've been enjoying the play between South Africa and India too. The Second Test is nicely poised with India needing the win to stay alive. Interestingly, given the talk earlier in the thread about 'home' pitches, Morne Morkel came out and said Centurion was playing more like an Indian pitch and it's fair to say he wasn't exaggerating - I think unusually high humidity has made the difference. Some really talented players on display in this series and the outcome will set up the Australian tour nicely, whichever way it ends up.
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  12. #311
    People say that touring countries are at a disadvantage when abroad due to pitches etc. Surely it is up to the touring countries to adapt their squad to best suit the conditions then. Now whether ya believe Mark Wood was fit for England or not (seems like he was having gone 10 good overs in first ODI) England needed to include 1/2 real pace bowlers who get some bounce out of the pitch. They’re insistence on sticking with the old guard doesn’t help anyone.

  13. #312
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HibernianJK View Post
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    People say that touring countries are at a disadvantage when abroad due to pitches etc. Surely it is up to the touring countries to adapt their squad to best suit the conditions then. Now whether ya believe Mark Wood was fit for England or not (seems like he was having gone 10 good overs in first ODI) England needed to include 1/2 real pace bowlers who get some bounce out of the pitch. They’re insistence on sticking with the old guard doesn’t help anyone.
    There's an argument that England just aren't producing Test bowlers who can deliver real pace. It's not that it's impossible - Steve Harmison was considered one of the fastest in the world a few years ago and he had Simon Jones and occasionally Flintoff reaching 90+mph.

    One reason put forward is the proliferation of the shorter game - English summers are now built around the popular and profitable T20 and 50-over games, with the County Championship games pushed to the start and the end of the season. The County Championship should be the breeding ground for Test players but playing games at the start and end generally means softer pitches which reward the kind of persistent seam bowling that has made Anderson and Broad so successful.

    All in all it seems to reflect a very conservative outlook, that must be a conscious decision by the National Cricket Performance Centre, wherby overseas opportunities are sacrificed to maximise home chances.
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  14. #313
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Entertaining end to the SAF-India Test with the South Africans securing the series.

    I was sorry to see Dale Steyn miss out through injury but Lungi Ndidi came in on debut and produced a pretty accomplished six-for. SAF have a fiercesome pace attack and the series against Australia is a mouth-watering prospect.

    Philander and Morkel still have a few years in them, you would imagine, and then you have Kabiso Rabada and Ndidi, who are in their early twenties and look like they might easily transition into being the senior attack pair, allowing the next couple of quicks to come through.

    Some really good fielding by the South Africans to wrap up the game also.
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