hibs.net Messageboard

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 40

Thread: Votes at 16

  1. #1
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    London
    Age
    50
    Posts
    2,161

    Votes at 16

    I’ve gone on about this before. Dropping the voting age to 16 is policy for every party but the DUP and the Tories.

    Now there’s a vote and the old woman who is squatting in number 10 is blocking its progress.

    After they screw up Brexit the Conservative’s truly are toast for a generation.


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #2
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    London
    Age
    50
    Posts
    2,161
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politic...-just-11462447

    The old lady gets her way. B’stards.

  4. #3
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,313
    100% supportive of this. You can get married, pay taxes and join the army but it’s crazy not to be allowed to vote

  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member barcahibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    West Lothian
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,591
    I work with 16 year olds all the time. Some of them are exceptional individuals but I don't trust the vast, vast majority of them to tie their own shoelaces.

    There are exceptions, there are a few very switched on kids out there, but not enough to give them all the vote.

    They don't have the life experience or the critical thinking skills yet at 16 IMO.

    In my experience the difference in maturity between an average 16 year old and an average 18 year old is vast, biologically humans are still developing so fast at these ages that those two years make a huge difference.

  6. #5
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    London
    Age
    50
    Posts
    2,161
    Quote Originally Posted by barcahibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I work with 16 year olds all the time. Some of them are exceptional individuals but I don't trust the vast, vast majority of them to tie their own shoelaces.

    There are exceptions, there are a few very switched on kids out there, but not enough to give them all the vote.

    They don't have the life experience or the critical thinking skills yet at 16 IMO.

    In my experience the difference in maturity between an average 16 year old and an average 18 year old is vast, biologically humans are still developing so fast at these ages that those two years make a huge difference.
    Maybe we could have an age limit then ‘cos half the oldies I meet are thick as pig **** and prejudiced for all their so called experience!

  7. #6
    Coaching Staff steakbake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Gate 38
    Posts
    7,629
    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Maybe we could have an age limit then ‘cos half the oldies I meet are thick as pig **** and prejudiced for all their so called experience!
    Totally agree. Some of the folks that pass for adults are nothing short of worrying. Bags of this amazing life experience stuff which passes as a qualification, but **** all to show for it in terms of what they've learned.

    If 16 year olds have an opinion and want to be part of a participatory democracy, they should be. The ones who are ********s probably wouldn't even be interested.

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,363
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    100% supportive of this. You can get married, pay taxes and join the army but it’s crazy not to be allowed to vote
    Only in Scotland can you get married, you also need parents permission to join the army before 18,,,,

  9. #8
    @hibs.net private member barcahibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    West Lothian
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,591
    The fact some adults can't be trusted either is an argument for restricting the franchise not expanding it.

    It's just nature. It's too hit and miss at that age whether kids have biologically, emotionally and psychologically matured enough to be responsible for their vote.

    My experience tells me the majority haven't.

    I'd also agree they shouldn't be taxed as an adult while they can't vote mind you.

    TBH I'd be looking more at restricting the vote than expanding it. I probably shouldn't have been allowed to vote in the EU referendum for example. I voted remain but i could certainly have put more thought into it and i was aware there were decent arguments for leave, i just never had time to really dig about at it.

  10. #9
    Testimonial Due Glory Lurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Miles from in the know
    Posts
    2,154
    16 year olds should have the vote. End of.

  11. #10
    Testimonial Due Future17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    "Galactidos!"
    Age
    33
    Posts
    4,988
    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Only in Scotland can you get married, you also need parents permission to join the army before 18,,,,
    Which doesn't change the fact it's true.

  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    edinburgh
    Posts
    10,815
    Quote Originally Posted by barcahibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I work with 16 year olds all the time. Some of them are exceptional individuals but I don't trust the vast, vast majority of them to tie their own shoelaces.

    There are exceptions, there are a few very switched on kids out there, but not enough to give them all the vote.

    They don't have the life experience or the critical thinking skills yet at 16 IMO.

    In my experience the difference in maturity between an average 16 year old and an average 18 year old is vast, biologically humans are still developing so fast at these ages that those two years make a huge difference.
    My dad votes labour no matter what, he’s 73. Age doesn’t always bring wisdom. I’d much rather 16 year old voting as they’d be more likely to consider the options available to them.

    GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE SIMON MURRAY

  13. #12
    @hibs.net private member barcahibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    West Lothian
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,591
    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    My dad votes labour no matter what, he’s 73. Age doesn’t always bring wisdom. I’d much rather 16 year old voting as they’d be more likely to consider the options available to them.
    Again, that's an argument for restricting the franchise not extending it.

    And children and young people are notorious for not considering the future and the consequences of their actions. It's one of the things that gets them into the most trouble - and its something that most (stress most, not all) grow out of with age.

  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member Just Alf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The 'Mains
    Posts
    2,775
    Thing is, with regards to the youngsters... In the main, I'd imagine it's only the ones that have thought about it that will be bothered to vote the rest will stay in bed etc.....

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
    "The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
    --Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback & sports analyst.

  15. #14
    Testimonial Due ACLeith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Sunny Leith
    Age
    69
    Posts
    1,088
    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Maybe we could have an age limit then ‘cos half the oldies I meet are thick as pig **** and prejudiced for all their so called experience!
    Oi! What age are you thinking of? (Careful what you say!!)

  16. #15
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Corstorphine
    Posts
    9,208
    I don't see why they shouldn't have the vote. Half of them won't get their heads out of their mobile screens long enough to get to the polls anyway so it won't make much difference.

  17. #16
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    edinburgh
    Posts
    10,815
    Quote Originally Posted by barcahibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Again, that's an argument for restricting the franchise not extending it.

    And children and young people are notorious for not considering the future and the consequences of their actions. It's one of the things that gets them into the most trouble - and its something that most (stress most, not all) grow out of with age.
    Their opinion is just as valid as someone my dads age. The young are more informed than ever before and what happens politically has more impact on them. The right to decide our future should be in the hands of those who have to live with the consequences.

    GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE SIMON MURRAY

  18. #17
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    edinburgh
    Posts
    10,815
    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I don't see why they shouldn't have the vote. Half of them won't get their heads out of their mobile screens long enough to get to the polls anyway so it won't make much difference.
    I hope that’s a joke.

    GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE SIMON MURRAY

  19. #18
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    26
    Posts
    6,973
    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I hope that’s a joke.
    Do you think it's more than half?
    Mon the Hibs.

  20. #19
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    edinburgh
    Posts
    10,815
    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Do you think it's more than half?
    Yes I thinks it’s at least 52%

    GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE SIMON MURRAY

  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member barcahibs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    West Lothian
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,591
    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Their opinion is just as valid as someone my dads age. The young are more informed than ever before and what happens politically has more impact on them. The right to decide our future should be in the hands of those who have to live with the consequences.
    But it isn't, because they biologically haven't had time to mature to a point where that's true. In my experience most (emphasis most) kids of that age still see the world in very black and white terms and really don't consider long term implications at all. They're also pretty easily swayed and tend not to have learned to think critically about the information they recieve.

    Part of that could be an education issue - critical thinking is something that schools need to think harder about imo. Kids should also be taught a lot more about modern politics and citizens rights and responsibilities.

    Again you might want to restrict people like your dad's vote but that's a different argument.

    The majority of kids that age just aren't mature enough to make decisions of that potential import. I'm aware that's unfair on the few who are ready - and there are a few - but that's life. Their time will come.

  22. #21
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    edinburgh
    Posts
    10,815
    Quote Originally Posted by barcahibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    But it isn't, because they biologically haven't had time to mature to a point where that's true. In my experience most (emphasis most) kids of that age still see the world in very black and white terms and really don't consider long term implications at all. They're also pretty easily swayed and tend not to have learned to think critically about the information they recieve.

    Part of that could be an education issue - critical thinking is something that schools need to think harder about imo. Kids should also be taught a lot more about modern politics and citizens rights and responsibilities.

    Again you might want to restrict people like your dad's vote but that's a different argument.

    The majority of kids that age just aren't mature enough to make decisions of that potential import. I'm aware that's unfair on the few who are ready - and there are a few - but that's life. Their time will come.
    I would disagree strongly with that. Surely most people will see voting as a black and white decision based on their political views. Why should any member of society be excluded from expressing their opinion at the ballot box. If you’re considered an adult in the eyes of the law, then you must have the right to influence the decisions that are relevant to your way of life. I understand that in England you’re not considered to be an adult until you’re 18, but that’s not the case in Scotland.

    GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE SIMON MURRAY

  23. #22
    Coaching Staff
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Antwerp
    Posts
    7,698
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    100% supportive of this. You can get married, pay taxes and join the army but it’s crazy not to be allowed to vote
    You can pay taxes at any age if you earn enough. I wouldn't be giving a 5 year old the vote though.

  24. #23
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brandenburg
    Age
    52
    Posts
    9,037
    Quote Originally Posted by ACLeith View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Oi! What age are you thinking of? (Careful what you say!!)
    I think a minimum IQ would be better than an age limit.

  25. #24
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    42
    Posts
    3,260
    Sitting on the bus to work each morning I hear what the kids that age speak about and discuss, appreciate it's not totally representative and there are some sensible kids out there but they sprout a load of nonsense and have no idea what happens in the real world. 18 is about right.

    I am sure if anyone here spent a few hours in the company of your average 16 yr old then they would soon agree they should not have the vote.
    Last edited by johnbc70; 04-11-2017 at 11:24 PM.

  26. #25
    @hibs.net private member Speedy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    6,750
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Sitting on the bus to work each morning I hear what the kids that age speak about and discuss, appreciate it's not totally representative and there are some sensible kids out there but they sprout a load of nonsense and have no idea what happens in the real world. 18 is about right.

    I am sure if anyone here spent a few hours in the company of your average 16 yr old then they would soon agree they should not have the vote.
    Your average 16 year old wouldn't vote.

    Those that would vote would have as much clue as your average voter.

  27. #26
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    2,651
    Should these people be allowed to vote?


  28. #27
    When hibs went up to lift the Scottish cup, I was there!
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Dunfermline
    Age
    33
    Posts
    12,069
    Gamer IDs

    Gamertag: Myjo5984 Wii Code: 3916 0145 9394 9493
    If the goverment is allowed to charge someone tax then that person has every right to have a say on the make-up of that government.




    #persevered

  29. #28
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    19,704
    Quote Originally Posted by MyJo View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    If the goverment is allowed to charge someone tax then that person has every right to have a say on the make-up of that government.
    The tax question is a bit of a red herring.

    1. Age is not a barrier to paying tax. A 5 year old, or younger, can pay direct tax if they have enough income. Many children also pay indirect tax.

    2. At the other end of the scale, many pensioners don't pay direct tax. Should they be prevented from voting?

    3. And the Queen pays income tax on part of her income. Should she have a vote?

    Fwiw, I am in favour of allowing 16 year olds to vote. If the law sees them responsible enough to work full time, have sex, get married and have a family, then they are responsible enough to have a say on who makes those decisions for them.

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 05-11-2017 at 07:59 PM.

  30. #29
    The Power
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    In ma hoose!
    Posts
    15,211
    I was a bit dubious about my 16 year old being able to vote but he was way more equipped than most older people on the day. At school there were many debates between friends and in a few classes around the politics at the time as well as discussions between his brothers at home. They are the future and imo now they should be able to vote

  31. #30
    Testimonial Due Future17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    "Galactidos!"
    Age
    33
    Posts
    4,988
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    And the Queen pays income tax on part of her income. Should she have a vote?
    The Queen is allowed to vote. It's only by convention that she does not do so...as far as we know.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2012 All Rights Reserved