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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Frazerbob View Post
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    I’m not daft enough to think that the government (ours and most others) don’t feed us minions what they want us to know. I was very critical of the role of the BBC in referendum for example. A right bloody stitch up that. However, how many people would need to be involved in such a complex and huge plan if 9/11 was an inside job? Surely one of them would’ve broken ranks by now.
    I think the view that not all politicians in Washington were particularly upset by 9/11 given the foreign policy avenues it opened up (or made an easier sell) is the closest to the truth when it comes to 'alternative' takes on the event. Why would they be? Some politicians and others who hold power have never shed many real tears for 'collateral damage'.

    That's a far cry from actively planning and carrying out the entire event of course.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby


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  3. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Surely if you are claiming the official story is a lie then the burden of evidence (proof?) lies very much with you?
    The evidence is all over the web - just have a look FFS!

    EG:
    Jet engine found 2 blocks down the road from the towers - wrong engine for the type of plane it was supposed to have come off! So where the heck did that come from then???

    US Government still concealing evidence that could shut all the truthers up (if it existed) 16 years later!!! (eg footage of alleged hijackers proceeding through the airport - footage of an aircraft approaching and striking the Pentagon - all confiscated and never released to the public - WHY?)

    Large pools of molten metal observed by firefighters under the WTC buildings (WTF?!?)

    NIST Report ignores the testimony of the firefighters who were in the buildings that multiple secondary explosions occurred prior to and as the buildings were collapsing (this was also captured on film) - NIST then claim there is "no evidence" that explosives were involved and do not even bother to investigate that angle(???)

    FBI never pressed charges against Osama Bin Laden - why??? No evidence connecting him to the event (source FBI).

    Pentagon "aircraft" just happened to hit the office investigating the $3.5 TRILLION missing from the Pentagon budget (announced the day before) - killing the investigating team and destroying the data. Ah but the data will be backed up of course surely! But where??? In Building 7 of the World Trade Center which just happened to miraculously collapse into it's own footprint at about the same time. (tell me what are the chances of THAT???)

    All of the above (and much more) on top of the ridiculous chain of coincidences which we are supposed to swallow which apparently allowed a bunch of (apparently hopeless) trainee pilots to waltz through the airspace of the country with the most humungous "defence" budget in history before performing feats of aerobatic brilliance that Dan Dare and Biggles would have been proud of. And to top it all off, three buildings designed to withstand multiple aircraft collisions then completely defy the laws of Physics to collapse into their own footprints at near freefall speed.

    But of course the BBC (which announced the purportedly random and unexpected collapse of Building 7 - a full 20 minutes before it happened - oops!) say there's nothing to see here so everyone that raises questions is a tin hat wearing conspiracy theorist. OK fine - maybe you should apply for a job in FIFA (move along nothing to see here) I'm sure you'd do great!

  4. #183
    #dotnettopboiz Haymaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basehibby View Post
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    FBI never pressed charges against Osama Bin Laden - why??? No evidence connecting him to the event (source FBI).
    Can you press charges on someone not in custody? He certainly sat on the Most Wanted list for a long time.

    Still, Robert O'Neill solved the issue of charges and court appearances.
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  5. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by basehibby View Post
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    The evidence is all over the web - just have a look FFS!

    EG:
    Jet engine found 2 blocks down the road from the towers - wrong engine for the type of plane it was supposed to have come off! So where the heck did that come from then???

    US Government still concealing evidence that could shut all the truthers up (if it existed) 16 years later!!! (eg footage of alleged hijackers proceeding through the airport - footage of an aircraft approaching and striking the Pentagon - all confiscated and never released to the public - WHY?)

    Large pools of molten metal observed by firefighters under the WTC buildings (WTF?!?)

    NIST Report ignores the testimony of the firefighters who were in the buildings that multiple secondary explosions occurred prior to and as the buildings were collapsing (this was also captured on film) - NIST then claim there is "no evidence" that explosives were involved and do not even bother to investigate that angle(???)

    FBI never pressed charges against Osama Bin Laden - why??? No evidence connecting him to the event (source FBI).

    Pentagon "aircraft" just happened to hit the office investigating the $3.5 TRILLION missing from the Pentagon budget (announced the day before) - killing the investigating team and destroying the data. Ah but the data will be backed up of course surely! But where??? In Building 7 of the World Trade Center which just happened to miraculously collapse into it's own footprint at about the same time. (tell me what are the chances of THAT???)

    All of the above (and much more) on top of the ridiculous chain of coincidences which we are supposed to swallow which apparently allowed a bunch of (apparently hopeless) trainee pilots to waltz through the airspace of the country with the most humungous "defence" budget in history before performing feats of aerobatic brilliance that Dan Dare and Biggles would have been proud of. And to top it all off, three buildings designed to withstand multiple aircraft collisions then completely defy the laws of Physics to collapse into their own footprints at near freefall speed.

    But of course the BBC (which announced the purportedly random and unexpected collapse of Building 7 - a full 20 minutes before it happened - oops!) say there's nothing to see here so everyone that raises questions is a tin hat wearing conspiracy theorist. OK fine - maybe you should apply for a job in FIFA (move along nothing to see here) I'm sure you'd do great!
    So, to cut a long story short, you accept the burden does lie with you?
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  6. #185
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basehibby View Post
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    The evidence is all over the web - just have a look FFS!

    EG:
    Jet engine found 2 blocks down the road from the towers - wrong engine for the type of plane it was supposed to have come off! So where the heck did that come from then???

    US Government still concealing evidence that could shut all the truthers up (if it existed) 16 years later!!! (eg footage of alleged hijackers proceeding through the airport - footage of an aircraft approaching and striking the Pentagon - all confiscated and never released to the public - WHY?)

    Large pools of molten metal observed by firefighters under the WTC buildings (WTF?!?)

    NIST Report ignores the testimony of the firefighters who were in the buildings that multiple secondary explosions occurred prior to and as the buildings were collapsing (this was also captured on film) - NIST then claim there is "no evidence" that explosives were involved and do not even bother to investigate that angle(???)

    FBI never pressed charges against Osama Bin Laden - why??? No evidence connecting him to the event (source FBI).

    Pentagon "aircraft" just happened to hit the office investigating the $3.5 TRILLION missing from the Pentagon budget (announced the day before) - killing the investigating team and destroying the data. Ah but the data will be backed up of course surely! But where??? In Building 7 of the World Trade Center which just happened to miraculously collapse into it's own footprint at about the same time. (tell me what are the chances of THAT???)

    All of the above (and much more) on top of the ridiculous chain of coincidences which we are supposed to swallow which apparently allowed a bunch of (apparently hopeless) trainee pilots to waltz through the airspace of the country with the most humungous "defence" budget in history before performing feats of aerobatic brilliance that Dan Dare and Biggles would have been proud of. And to top it all off, three buildings designed to withstand multiple aircraft collisions then completely defy the laws of Physics to collapse into their own footprints at near freefall speed.

    But of course the BBC (which announced the purportedly random and unexpected collapse of Building 7 - a full 20 minutes before it happened - oops!) say there's nothing to see here so everyone that raises questions is a tin hat wearing conspiracy theorist. OK fine - maybe you should apply for a job in FIFA (move along nothing to see here) I'm sure you'd do great!
    Lol

  7. #186
    Scottish Cup Victory - Witness 2016 Scouse Hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basehibby View Post
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    The evidence is all over the web - just have a look FFS!

    EG:
    Jet engine found 2 blocks down the road from the towers - wrong engine for the type of plane it was supposed to have come off! So where the heck did that come from then???

    US Government still concealing evidence that could shut all the truthers up (if it existed) 16 years later!!! (eg footage of alleged hijackers proceeding through the airport - footage of an aircraft approaching and striking the Pentagon - all confiscated and never released to the public - WHY?)

    Large pools of molten metal observed by firefighters under the WTC buildings (WTF?!?)

    NIST Report ignores the testimony of the firefighters who were in the buildings that multiple secondary explosions occurred prior to and as the buildings were collapsing (this was also captured on film) - NIST then claim there is "no evidence" that explosives were involved and do not even bother to investigate that angle(???)

    FBI never pressed charges against Osama Bin Laden - why??? No evidence connecting him to the event (source FBI).

    Pentagon "aircraft" just happened to hit the office investigating the $3.5 TRILLION missing from the Pentagon budget (announced the day before) - killing the investigating team and destroying the data. Ah but the data will be backed up of course surely! But where??? In Building 7 of the World Trade Center which just happened to miraculously collapse into it's own footprint at about the same time. (tell me what are the chances of THAT???)

    All of the above (and much more) on top of the ridiculous chain of coincidences which we are supposed to swallow which apparently allowed a bunch of (apparently hopeless) trainee pilots to waltz through the airspace of the country with the most humungous "defence" budget in history before performing feats of aerobatic brilliance that Dan Dare and Biggles would have been proud of. And to top it all off, three buildings designed to withstand multiple aircraft collisions then completely defy the laws of Physics to collapse into their own footprints at near freefall speed.

    But of course the BBC (which announced the purportedly random and unexpected collapse of Building 7 - a full 20 minutes before it happened - oops!) say there's nothing to see here so everyone that raises questions is a tin hat wearing conspiracy theorist. OK fine - maybe you should apply for a job in FIFA (move along nothing to see here) I'm sure you'd do great!
    That was an interesting read. When I have time I am going to research in more detail the issues you have stated. Pretty sure I will unearth numerous explanations for all and so on it goes theory/counter theory.
    "If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain
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  8. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by basehibby View Post
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    The evidence is all over the web - just have a look FFS!
    It must be true then.

  9. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by basehibby View Post
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    The evidence is all over the web - just have a look FFS!

    EG:
    Jet engine found 2 blocks down the road from the towers - wrong engine for the type of plane it was supposed to have come off! So where the heck did that come from then???

    US Government still concealing evidence that could shut all the truthers up (if it existed) 16 years later!!! (eg footage of alleged hijackers proceeding through the airport - footage of an aircraft approaching and striking the Pentagon - all confiscated and never released to the public - WHY?)

    Large pools of molten metal observed by firefighters under the WTC buildings (WTF?!?)

    NIST Report ignores the testimony of the firefighters who were in the buildings that multiple secondary explosions occurred prior to and as the buildings were collapsing (this was also captured on film) - NIST then claim there is "no evidence" that explosives were involved and do not even bother to investigate that angle(???)

    FBI never pressed charges against Osama Bin Laden - why??? No evidence connecting him to the event (source FBI).

    Pentagon "aircraft" just happened to hit the office investigating the $3.5 TRILLION missing from the Pentagon budget (announced the day before) - killing the investigating team and destroying the data. Ah but the data will be backed up of course surely! But where??? In Building 7 of the World Trade Center which just happened to miraculously collapse into it's own footprint at about the same time. (tell me what are the chances of THAT???)

    All of the above (and much more) on top of the ridiculous chain of coincidences which we are supposed to swallow which apparently allowed a bunch of (apparently hopeless) trainee pilots to waltz through the airspace of the country with the most humungous "defence" budget in history before performing feats of aerobatic brilliance that Dan Dare and Biggles would have been proud of. And to top it all off, three buildings designed to withstand multiple aircraft collisions then completely defy the laws of Physics to collapse into their own footprints at near freefall speed.

    But of course the BBC (which announced the purportedly random and unexpected collapse of Building 7 - a full 20 minutes before it happened - oops!) say there's nothing to see here so everyone that raises questions is a tin hat wearing conspiracy theorist. OK fine - maybe you should apply for a job in FIFA (move along nothing to see here) I'm sure you'd do great!
    We're through the looking glass here, people.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #189
    First Team Breakthrough andybev1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunshineOnLeith View Post
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    We're through the looking glass here, people.
    Oh well, that wins it then.

    go back to sleep people, the govt. does not lie and is looking after your, go back to sleep.
    Last edited by andybev1; 14-11-2017 at 08:52 AM.

  11. #190
    First Team Breakthrough andybev1's Avatar
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    edit
    Last edited by andybev1; 14-11-2017 at 09:05 AM.

  12. #191
    @hibs.net private member green day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basehibby View Post
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    How about these for starters:
    http://911truth.org/academic-papers-on-911/

    However, the burden of evidence does not lie with me my friend. I am merely pointing out the glaringly obvious fact that the NIST report is a pile of baloney seeking to support a fairy story. They didn't even bother their ***** to investigate the possibility of explosives being used - despite hundreds of witnesses (many of them on the spot first responders such as firemen and police) stating that they clearly heard multiple secondary explosions at the time of the "collapse" of all three buildings.

    This together with such glaring anomalies as the aircraft flying way in excess of their maximum speed for such a low altitude - with the amatuers at the controls seemingly able to pull off stunning aeronautical manouvres that senior pilots would have struggled to achieve without the bloody wings falling off!

    I could go on and on but this is a football forum - if you are genuinely interested then there is a wealth of information at your fingertips - please do spend some time looking into it.
    I imagine that the CIA and other agencies were quietly pleased with 9/11 as it gave them carte blanche to write their own budgets for the next 15 years.

    However, regarding the conspiracy theorists, I tried to pull 3 papers at random from that link -

    First one was a "404 file not found"

    Second one was an academic study which suggested that the accepted theory of why the towers collapsed on on themselves was plausible.

    The third one linked to a website containing blogs from people recovering from substance abuse - not to say it wouldnt be well written, but it was hardly published by Cambridge university.....

    Afraid 911truth.org does smack of some radge in a basement trawling the web for anything and everything to support their view.

  13. #192
    @hibs.net private member Bostonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by green day View Post
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    I imagine that the CIA and other agencies were quietly pleased with 9/11 as it gave them carte blanche to write their own budgets for the next 15 years.

    However, regarding the conspiracy theorists, I tried to pull 3 papers at random from that link -

    First one was a "404 file not found"

    Second one was an academic study which suggested that the accepted theory of why the towers collapsed on on themselves was plausible.

    The third one linked to a website containing blogs from people recovering from substance abuse - not to say it wouldnt be well written, but it was hardly published by Cambridge university.....

    Afraid 911truth.org does smack of some radge in a basement trawling the web for anything and everything to support their view.

    Look on the positive side, if you are in a basement when the CIA launch an attack in your area you should survive when the building collapses, it's what any good paranoid conspiracy theorist would do.

    "I did not need any persuasion to play for such a great club, the Hibs result is still one of the first I look for"

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  14. #193
    First Team Breakthrough andybev1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by green day View Post
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    I imagine that the CIA and other agencies were quietly pleased with 9/11 as it gave them carte blanche to write their own budgets for the next 15 years.

    However, regarding the conspiracy theorists, I tried to pull 3 papers at random from that link -

    First one was a "404 file not found"

    Second one was an academic study which suggested that the accepted theory of why the towers collapsed on on themselves was plausible.

    The third one linked to a website containing blogs from people recovering from substance abuse - not to say it wouldnt be well written, but it was hardly published by Cambridge university.....

    Afraid 911truth.org does smack of some radge in a basement trawling the web for anything and everything to support their view.
    I don't want to go through all of them but the glaring thing that you mention : 'an academic study which suggested that the accepted theory of why the towers collapsed on on themselves was plausible.' - there are many sites that can blow that out of the water but I suppose the most respected and well know is Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth - all of the scientific proof you would ever need to put the lie to the government (NIST) 'story' - http://www.ae911truth.org/info/23
    Last edited by andybev1; 14-11-2017 at 09:23 AM.

  15. #194
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by green day View Post
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    Afraid 911truth.org does smack of some radge in a basement trawling the web for anything and everything to support their view.
    ... And the Football Lads Alliance leader John Meighan would have been 15 years old on 9/11. Would he really have the cojones to pull off a scheme like that at that tender age

  16. #195
    First Team Breakthrough andybev1's Avatar
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    I will bow out to this - I have spent long enough on 9/11 sites and forums and come here for my love of Hibs. I just hope the people who believe the govt. story at least can look at the other side - I know i looked at both.

    p.s. to say that the people who do not believe the govt. version of what happened are tin hat wearing wierdos is to disrespect many of the mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers of the victims of 9/11. If that is the sum total of your research then you need to take a look at yourself before you slag off others.
    Last edited by andybev1; 14-11-2017 at 10:56 AM.

  17. #196
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    Jet fuel can't melt steel beams.

  18. #197
    I know that a lot of you are credulous muppets but at least you are Hibee credulous muppets. Don't worry though - cognitive dissonance is curable.

    I won't push this argument further because a) it's a Hibs forum for discussing matters Hibs and b) the evidence that the 911 official story is a pile of drivel is in the public domain for anyone tired enough of sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting "nyanyanya - tin hats" to have a look.

  19. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    So, to cut a long story short, you accept the burden does lie with you?

    If I accepted that, my post would have been an essay rather than a few bullet points which barely skim the surface of what's out there. People have eyes and ears and can look for themselves - but those that throw around lazy ignorant "tin hat" insults deserve to be challenged.

  20. #199
    @hibs.net private member CapitalGreen's Avatar
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    This is an interesting read on why people believe conspiracy theories, published in the wake of the Las Vegas shooting.

    https://psychcentral.com/blog/archiv...-believe-them/

    Having read this I no longer engage in arguments with conspiracy cranks as it is more than likely an issue of personality rather than knowledge or understanding of an event.

    "People who believe in conspiracy theories can feel “special,” in a positive sense, because they may feel that they are more informed than others about important social and political events." - Lantian et al (2017)

    Moulding et al. (2016) found that, consistent with their hypotheses, “endorsement of conspiracy theories related moderately-to-strongly with the alienation-related variables — isolation, powerlessness, normlessness and disengagement from social norms.”

    van Prooijen (2016) also found that self-esteem instability resulting in self-uncertainty also is a characteristic associated with a greater likelihood to believe in conspiracy theories.

  21. #200
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapitalGreen View Post
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    This is an interesting read on why people believe conspiracy theories, published in the wake of the Las Vegas shooting.

    https://psychcentral.com/blog/archiv...-believe-them/

    Having read this I no longer engage in arguments with conspiracy cranks as it is more than likely an issue of personality rather than knowledge or understanding of an event.

    "People who believe in conspiracy theories can feel “special,” in a positive sense, because they may feel that they are more informed than others about important social and political events." - Lantian et al (2017)

    Moulding et al. (2016) found that, consistent with their hypotheses, “endorsement of conspiracy theories related moderately-to-strongly with the alienation-related variables — isolation, powerlessness, normlessness and disengagement from social norms.”

    van Prooijen (2016) also found that self-esteem instability resulting in self-uncertainty also is a characteristic associated with a greater likelihood to believe in conspiracy theories.
    That's fine as an academic analysis, but the problem is that there is not a single definition of what constitutes a 'conspiracy theory' and what is just healthy scepticism about what you are told to believe by those who hold power in society.

    Im sure Hillsborough academic Phil Scraton was called a CT (and undoubtedly worse) by all those with something to hide between 1985 and 2015. As a term, It means nothing these days except as a tool to discredit a particular point of view.

  22. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by CapitalGreen View Post
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    This is an interesting read on why people believe conspiracy theories, published in the wake of the Las Vegas shooting.

    https://psychcentral.com/blog/archiv...-believe-them/

    Having read this I no longer engage in arguments with conspiracy cranks as it is more than likely an issue of personality rather than knowledge or understanding of an event.

    "People who believe in conspiracy theories can feel “special,” in a positive sense, because they may feel that they are more informed than others about important social and political events." - Lantian et al (2017)

    Moulding et al. (2016) found that, consistent with their hypotheses, “endorsement of conspiracy theories related moderately-to-strongly with the alienation-related variables — isolation, powerlessness, normlessness and disengagement from social norms.”

    van Prooijen (2016) also found that self-esteem instability resulting in self-uncertainty also is a characteristic associated with a greater likelihood to believe in conspiracy theories.

    I don't believe in "conspiracy theories" though - I simply refuse to disengage my brain and swallow one particular one. Neither do I conform to any of the personality disorders listed above - I'm in rude mental health and as stable as they come.

    You seem to be guilty of lazy thinking and/or the simple lack thereof on the other hand. Now I could probably think of some personality disorder or mental condition to justify that as well - oh wait, there is one - "cognitive dissonance".

    (Thinks - damn - I was supposed to be backing off this topic - your fault CapitalGreen lols)

  23. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by hibbycraig View Post
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    Jet fuel can't melt steel beams.
    It can soften it enough to make it virtually useless though (assuming you mean when jet fuel is burning and aren't just making a comment on the capabilities of room temperature jet fuel).

  24. #203
    @hibs.net private member Tinribs's Avatar
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    What with Elvis and double decker buses being found on the moon, I guess anything is possible.

  25. #204
    Old enough to know better. Stupid enough to do it anyway. Mr White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basehibby View Post
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    I know that a lot of you are credulous muppets



    I'm in rude mental health and as stable as they come.
    If you're ever faced with having to convince any medical professionals of your second statement there then I'd maybe consider leaving out the first. Or at least say it quietly and hope they dont hear you

  26. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    It can soften it enough to make it virtually useless though (assuming you mean when jet fuel is burning and aren't just making a comment on the capabilities of room temperature jet fuel).
    He’s just “memeing”.


  27. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr White View Post
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    If you're ever faced with having to convince any medical professionals of your second statement there then I'd maybe consider leaving out the first. Or at least say it quietly and hope they dont hear you
    OK - you are dissing my state of mental health and determinedly digging your head in the sand - so - one question for you only:

    Do you believe the testimony of the New York City Fire Fighters who attended (and survived) the 911 atrocity?

  28. #207
    @hibs.net private member flash's Avatar
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    So to sum up the "football lads alliance" were responsible for 9/11.

    Every day's a school day.

  29. #208
    Old enough to know better. Stupid enough to do it anyway. Mr White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basehibby View Post
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    OK - you are dissing my state of mental health and determinedly digging your head in the sand - so - one question for you only:

    Do you believe the testimony of the New York City Fire Fighters who attended (and survived) the 911 atrocity?
    Haha chill out I'm only pulling your leg. In case it's escaped your notice that was my first contribution to this part of the discussion...

  30. #209
    @hibs.net private member SRH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basehibby View Post
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    OK - you are dissing my state of mental health and determinedly digging your head in the sand - so - one question for you only:

    Do you believe the testimony of the New York City Fire Fighters who attended (and survived) the 911 atrocity?
    Do you think there is a concerted, Worldwide media effort to suppress news and evidence about it? Seems surprising that all the information is restricted to conspiracy sites and nowhere else.

    I think it’s a case of confirmation bias to be quite honest. I’ve read many conspiracy theories, and even the most ridiculous ones can be composed well enough to make them believable - especially if you don’t study both sides, which a lot of conspiracy theorists don’t in my opinion.

    I am not a structural engineer, or any type of scientist (outside a few years of uni education) so it’s impossible for me to say for certain one way or another which side is true, but the way the evidence stacks up, I know which story I believe.


  31. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr White View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Haha chill out I'm only pulling your leg. In case it's escaped your notice that was my first contribution to this part of the discussion...
    OK mate - no worries - would be interested in how all the oh-so-worldly-wise nay-sayers above would answer that though.

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