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  1. #91
    @hibs.net private member SRH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimBHibees View Post
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    should this thread not be punted to the more political holy ground forum. just a thought.
    IMO, if these groups are actively recruiting Hibs fans I think it should stay on the main (busiest) board just to raise awareness as to what they actually represent.



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  3. #92
    First Team Breakthrough Lendo's Avatar
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    This is still a football forum isn’t it?

  4. #93
    @hibs.net private member Carheenlea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendo View Post
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    This is still a football forum isn’t it?
    It is, and this thread is about extremist groups recruiting football fans to their movements. Worthy of discussion and attention IMO.

  5. #94
    @hibs.net proletariat member Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baader View Post
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    Don't be fooled by the Tommy Robinsons and Nick Griffins of this world. Very careful never to say what they really mean and making themselves out to be some sort of advocates of 'freedom'. They are the opposite. Blackshirts in sheep's clothing.
    I think their ultimate aim is to become a celebrity.

    Celebrity racists.

  6. #95
    @hibs.net private member green day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    I think their ultimate aim is to become a celebrity.

    Celebrity racists.


    Like Nigel "never off the telly even though he is not the leader of his crappy wee party" Farage?

    I was born in the late 60s, and spent a few years as a child in west africa so have seen more than most what racist attitudes and colonialism were like - for my parents, casual and overt racism were normal behaviour - its calmed down a bit now, but we still get the chat about "the paki kids down the road".

    The likes of Farage play to the ugly stereotypes that exist in the Daily Mail and the Express and because the BBC allows a clown like him a platform, he is deemed to talk sense by people of my parents generation.

    I think this thread shows to an extent how a group like the FLA can gain traction - they wont admit it but the FLA etc are just the footsoldiers who lack Farage and Robinsons polish.


    The nazis appeared quite benign in Germany until they took power and started the real agenda.

  7. #96
    Some belting replies on this gave me a right chuckle.😂😂

  8. #97
    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRH View Post
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    IMO, if these groups are actively recruiting Hibs fans I think it should stay on the main (busiest) board just to raise awareness as to what they actually represent.
    Fair point.

  9. #98
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    Yes they are very racist you only need to find quotes from their membership and leadership to see how racist they are.

    They have members spouting the white privilege crap which is racist term and demanding white people hand over their homes to black or brown people, more racist crap from BLM. I have also seen signs at their protests stating kill all whites, whites are the devils etc.

    ANTIFA support this group so therefore they are associated with supporting racism and not to mention the other extreme left wing groups that make up ANTIFA.

    IMO ANTIFA are an extremist violent group and their actions support my views.
    I think you need to revise the difference between a racist group and a group with an element of racists within it. BLM were founded to resist the inequality between how the police treat blacks and whites in the US. There's no disputing the different treatment you're likely to receive from the police there and it's been well documented. To claim that the group is in it's core racist is laughable when it's whole existence is to promote equal rights and treatment, the way they go about that is up for debate but not their motives.

  10. #99
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRH View Post
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    I think with regards BLM it really depends on your idea of racism itself. There is most certainly a huge portion of BLM who are hugely anti-white as opposed to pro-black. A lot of liberal minded people are of the opinion that it’s logically impossible to be racist against white people due to our standing in society. I definitely disagree with this and I think groups like BLM cause more of a divide - thus more societal conflict - than anything, and aren’t really a net positive.
    It doesn't really matter whether you 'disagree' with the semantics of how you define racism. Racism exists within a context of power, that's a fact. It maybe hasn't been effectively explained to you before, but that's a very different thing.

    BLM doesn't 'cause a divide'. It responds to a divide. BLM exists because young black men are being killed by police with guns in extremely high numbers, out of all proportion to whites. I'd imagine if you were a young black male in the US you'd be more likely to think of BLM favourably than you clearly do. From what I've seen it advocates wholly peaceful protest, and unless I've missed it I've seen no evidence to the contrary.

    Also, BLM aren't recruiting at Hibs games to try to 'raise awareness' of their cause, the FLA are. That's the issue. And they are doing it because they like the idea of street level intimidation, because their ideals have been rejected at the ballot box again and again. Pretending to be 'concerned' citizens is straight out of the fascism how to manual.
    Last edited by hibsbollah; 03-11-2017 at 04:44 PM.

  11. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    I agree there needs to be a grown up discussion about extremism and how extremism is viewed and treated in different communities and also what is classified as extremism across cultural groups.

    Sadly in the modern political climate I don't see that happening.
    I’d like to see footballers, like Sane, Toure, Pogba, Ozil do this in communities, going in to mosques, showing that you can succeed in having a positive mindset, aimed at young people. I did email Leeann about this when El Alagui was here, but history is making it obvious we had some major in-house problems to sort out, but there’s a massive football support amongst young Muslims, even those who might’ve drawn to extremism. There is a lot being done by Muslims I know to combat extremism through arts, education and youth.

    As this is a football forum, I wouldn’t hesitate to suggest again reaching out through places like Annandale St or King St mosque through the football club, they are both in Leith too. Get the fans in from Leith and Edinburgh, whatever the background.

  12. #101
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by green day View Post
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    Like Nigel "never off the telly even though he is not the leader of his crappy wee party" Farage?

    I was born in the late 60s, and spent a few years as a child in west africa so have seen more than most what racist attitudes and colonialism were like - for my parents, casual and overt racism were normal behaviour - its calmed down a bit now, but we still get the chat about "the paki kids down the road".

    The likes of Farage play to the ugly stereotypes that exist in the Daily Mail and the Express and because the BBC allows a clown like him a platform, he is deemed to talk sense by people of my parents generation.

    I think this thread shows to an extent how a group like the FLA can gain traction - they wont admit it but the FLA etc are just the footsoldiers who lack Farage and Robinsons polish.


    The nazis appeared quite benign in Germany until they took power and started the real agenda.
    Your last point is an important one. Not everyone who voted for the Nazis was a frothing at the mouth racist, but they chose racism in what they thought was a socially acceptable form over equality and voted accordingly. The rest is history.

  13. #102
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 17SquirrelPower View Post
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    I’d like to see footballers, like Sane, Toure, Pogba, Ozil do this in communities, going in to mosques, showing that you can succeed in having a positive mindset, aimed at young people. I did email Leeann about this when El Alagui was here, but history is making it obvious we had some major in-house problems to sort out, but there’s a massive football support amongst young Muslims, even those who might’ve drawn to extremism. There is a lot being done by Muslims I know to combat extremism through arts, education and youth.

    As this is a football forum, I wouldn’t hesitate to suggest again reaching out through places like Annandale St or King St mosque through the football club, they are both in Leith too. Get the fans in from Leith and Edinburgh, whatever the background.

  14. #103
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    It doesn't really matter whether you 'disagree' with the semantics of how you define racism. Racism exists within a context of power, that's a fact. It maybe hasn't been effectively explained to you before, but that's a very different thing.

    BLM doesn't 'cause a divide'. It responds to a divide. BLM exists because young black men are being killed by police with guns in extremely high numbers, out of all proportion to whites. I'd imagine if you were a young black male in the US you'd be more likely to think of BLM favourably than you clearly do. From what I've seen it advocates wholly peaceful protest, and unless I've missed it I've seen no evidence to the contrary.

    Also, BLM aren't recruiting at Hibs games to try to 'raise awareness' of their cause, the FLA are. That's the issue. And they are doing it because they like the idea of street level intimidation, because their ideals have been rejected at the ballot box again and again. Pretending to be 'concerned' citizens is straight out of the fascism how to manual.

  15. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by 17SquirrelPower View Post
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    I’d like to see footballers, like Sane, Toure, Pogba, Ozil do this in communities, going in to mosques, showing that you can succeed in having a positive mindset, aimed at young people. I did email Leeann about this when El Alagui was here, but history is making it obvious we had some major in-house problems to sort out, but there’s a massive football support amongst young Muslims, even those who might’ve drawn to extremism. There is a lot being done by Muslims I know to combat extremism through arts, education and youth.

    As this is a football forum, I wouldn’t hesitate to suggest again reaching out through places like Annandale St or King St mosque through the football club, they are both in Leith too. Get the fans in from Leith and Edinburgh, whatever the background.
    Spot on.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  16. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    I think you need to revise the difference between a racist group and a group with an element of racists within it. BLM were founded to resist the inequality between how the police treat blacks and whites in the US. There's no disputing the different treatment you're likely to receive from the police there and it's been well documented. To claim that the group is in it's core racist is laughable when it's whole existence is to promote equal rights and treatment, the way they go about that is up for debate but not their motives.
    I see similarity between FLA & BLM, FLA started as anti-extremist group but are now fascist neo-nazi's (according to many) but then you chose to ignore BLM racist leaders and members who started as a group to fight inequality (Which is highly dubious when you look at stats - ie more whites are killed by the police - BLM seem to ignore or try and shift the blame about crimes black people are responsible for that put them in confrontation with the police - meaning more are getting shot and killed by the police. BLM are openly racist in their rhetoric and this does not sound like a group that promotes equality.

    For me it's more divide and rule both side left and right are getting played of each other to cause division. It reeks of double stands to call out onye set of racists but then turn blind eye to the other racists because they don't fit with the liberal idea that racism is mainly a white problem which of course Is totally wrong.
    Last edited by HomeTeam; 03-11-2017 at 05:14 PM.

  17. #106
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    I see similarity between FLA & BLM, FLA started as anti-extremist group but are now fascist neo-nazi's (according to many) but then you chose to ignore BLM racist leaders and members who started as a group to fight inequality (Which is highly dubious when you look at stats - ie more whites are killed by the police - BLM seem to ignore or try and shift the blame about crimes black people are responsible for that put them in confrontation with the police - meaning more are getting shot and killed by the police. BLM are openly racist in their rhetoric and this does not sound like a group that promotes equality.

    For me it's more divide and rule both side left and right are getting played of each other to cause division. It reeks of double stands to call out once set of racists but then turn blind eye to the other racists because the don't fit with the liberal idea that racism is mainly a white problem which of course Is totally wrong.
    Are you going to post some sort of evidence at any point for your daft, factually incorrect statements? (particularly your contention that BLM are 'openly racist'?) Sources? Links?

  18. #107
    @hibs.net private member SRH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    It doesn't really matter whether you 'disagree' with the semantics of how you define racism. Racism exists within a context of power, that's a fact. It maybe hasn't been effectively explained to you before, but that's a very different thing.

    BLM doesn't 'cause a divide'. It responds to a divide. BLM exists because young black men are being killed by police with guns in extremely high numbers, out of all proportion to whites. I'd imagine if you were a young black male in the US you'd be more likely to think of BLM favourably than you clearly do. From what I've seen it advocates wholly peaceful protest, and unless I've missed it I've seen no evidence to the contrary.

    Also, BLM aren't recruiting at Hibs games to try to 'raise awareness' of their cause, the FLA are. That's the issue. And they are doing it because they like the idea of street level intimidation, because their ideals have been rejected at the ballot box again and again. Pretending to be 'concerned' citizens is straight out of the fascism how to manual.
    I think it certainly does matter. We’ve ‘progressed’ to a state in society where we are being defined by our races even more, not less. The fact that there exists an antipathy for white people by ethnic minorities based purely on their existence alone signals the exact opposite of a progression. ‘Racism’ (or prejudice) towards white being normalised perpetuates the problem (which I’m not denying exists) and I feel is creating a “them vs us” narrative. The idea that it’s impossible to be racist to a white person is an unhealthy one.

    I fully understand there are issues (especially in the US) borne from the past. I also do think things are improving, and the statistics with young black males are a manifestation of past institutional racism (which has left huge amounts of African Americans living in below average conditions) and less of an issue concerning modern day racism. Regardless of reasoning, it is a problem that should be addressed. I just don’t think aggressive groups like BLM, Antifa etc. are raising awareness correctly. Apologies this is all a bit disjointed - on my phone.

    On topic, FLA should be nowhere near our fans.
    Last edited by SRH; 03-11-2017 at 05:18 PM.

  19. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    Are you going to post some sort of evidence at any point for your daft, factually incorrect statements? (particularly your contention that BLM are 'openly racist'?) Sources? Links?
    Why don't you simply type BLM racists into google and find out for yourself?

  20. #109
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRH View Post
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    . The fact that there exists an antipathy for white people by ethnic minorities based purely on their existence alone signals the exact opposite of a progression. The fact that ‘racism’ (or prejudice) towards white is being normalised perpetuates the problem (which I’m not denying exists) and I feel is creating a “them vs us” narrative. The idea that it’s impossible to be racist to a white person is an unhealthy one.
    .
    This whole passage above is just based on total misconceptions. How is racism against white people being normalised? I mean where do you get that from? Who says there is 'antipathy' towards white people by ethnic minorities? Who says its impossible for a black person to be racist to a white person? Misinformation on quite a large scale going on here.

    I'm glad you agree that the FLA have no place at ER. And if I see them walking up St Clair St I will tell them forcefully to GTF. Even if that makes me 'just as bad as them' in some peoples eyes

  21. #110
    @hibs.net private member Bostonhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    There's worrying tendency on here seemingly to equate the far right street gangs with the 'antifa', those protesting against the fascists. It's lazy and inaccurate, as if we've taken the 'both cheeks of the same erse' argument we use to define the old firm, and to argue that Celtic are just as bad as Rangers, to new levels of stupidity.

    There should only be two sides, fascists on one side and those who disapprove of fascism on the other. Anything else is ignoring what's right of front of your face. If you can't see the FLA for what they are you're very naive.
    Yep. Spot on. Healthy to be sceptical of fanatical groups of all political and religious wings. This lot do rather stand out from the crowd though. There'll be union jacks and the rangers tops in evidence but that'll be about it.

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  22. #111
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    Why don't you simply type BLM racists into google and find out for yourself?
    You're spouting the misinformation, why don't you do it?

  23. #112
    @hibs.net private member SRH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    This whole passage above is just based on total misconceptions. How is racism against white people being normalised? I mean where do you get that from? Who says there is 'antipathy' towards white people by ethnic minorities? Who says its impossible for a black person to be racist to a white person? Misinformation on quite a large scale going on here.

    I'm glad you agree that the FLA have no place at ER. And if I see them walking up St Clair St I will tell them forcefully to GTF. Even if that makes me 'just as bad as them' in some peoples eyes
    You do realise a lot of these groups purport that white people are inherently racist because of their privilege? If an idea like this is allowed to exist then I would say that’s bad.

    Who says it’s impossible for a black person to be racist to a white person? Have you not had the internet for the past couple of years? Articles like this are rife: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.elitedaily.com/life/culture/dear-white-people-why-black-people-cant-be-racist/1960206/amp.

    And it clearly brings us to your point about the true definition of racism. It’s fine to mock white people because of the past. Now, I’ll be honest, **** like this doesn’t really bother me, but it’s pretty clear that tarring all white people with the same brush is going to cause divisiveness. That article is a very tame example of the sentiment that exists too.

  24. #113
    For anyone more interested in facts than point scoring on this thread, there are plenty of videos if the FLA in action.

    Having looked through hoping to find something there seems to be very little racism taking place. Either very careful editing of thousands of people marching or, it's not quite as cut and dry as some on here would have us believe.

  25. #114
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRH View Post
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    You do realise a lot of these groups purport that white people are inherently racist because of their privilege? If an idea like this is allowed to exist then I would say that’s bad.

    Who says it’s impossible for a black person to be racist to a white person? Have you not had the internet for the past couple of years? Articles like this are rife: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.e...st/1960206/amp.

    And it clearly brings us to your point about the true definition of racism. It’s fine to mock white people because of the past. Now, I’ll be honest, **** like this doesn’t really bother me, but it’s pretty clear that tarring all white people with the same brush is going to cause divisiveness. That article is a very tame example of the sentiment that exists too.
    Which groups? BLM don't. Or at least that represents a skewed interpretation of what is demonstrable FACT, which is, Yes, black people can be as racist as white people are. But NO, white people cannot experience the same racism as black people do, because they do not live in a society where they arent the dominant group across all aspects of that society. Now when I say it doesn't matter whether or not you think that's fair or correct, i mean that you may as well dispute the facts of global warming. It is a fact, underpinned by a whole academic discipline. That is not the same as saying white people are inherently racist because of their privilege.

    I think it's fascinating that the far right is actually recruiting at ER and across Scottish football, a truly shocking state of affairs, and the focus on some peoples minds is on what a black civil rights organisation is saying about police brutality in the USA and whether this organisation is racist or not. It's almost like diversion is going on

  26. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by beensaidbefore View Post
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    For anyone more interested in facts than point scoring on this thread, there are plenty of videos if the FLA in action.

    Having looked through hoping to find something there seems to be very little racism taking place. Either very careful editing of thousands of people marching or, it's not quite as cut and dry as some on here would have us believe.

    Yeah check out their official Facebook Page and read threads like this one. Nicey nicey on the surface then you read the comments...out and out racism.

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...971447077&fs=5

  27. #116
    @hibs.net private member green day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    (Which is highly dubious when you look at stats - ie more whites are killed by the police

    Dear god you are like a dog chasing its tail - your statement above is 100% right in absolute terms, well done............but there are a lot more white people than black in the USA.

    As a black man you are 9 times more likely to be killed by the police than a white man.

    Thats why they are saying black lives matter, FFS.

    If you want to throw stats into an argument try a bit harder to make it sensible, eh?

  28. #117
    @hibs.net private member SRH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    Which groups? BLM don't. Or at least that represents a skewed interpretation of what is demonstrable FACT, which is, Yes, black people can be as racist as white people are. But NO, white people cannot experience the same racism as black people do, because they do not live in a society where they arent the dominant group across all aspects of that society. Now when I say it doesn't matter whether or not you think that's fair or correct, i mean that you may as well dispute the facts of global warming. It is a fact, underpinned by a whole academic discipline. That is not the same as saying white people are inherently racist because of their privilege.

    I think it's fascinating that the far right is actually recruiting at ER and across Scottish football, a truly shocking state of affairs, and the focus on some peoples minds is on what a black civil rights organisation is saying about police brutality in the USA and whether this organisation is racist or not. It's almost like diversion is going on
    Systematic racism does not affect white people, or at least nowhere near to the same degree. However racism towards white people does exist. On that we can both agree. I have seen plenty of evidence that BLM, or factions of it, would not agree with that statement.

    I really hope you’re not implying that I would be intentionally drawing negative attention away from FLA. I’m merely responding to an argument that was posited by someone in this thread.

  29. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibbyfraelibby View Post
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    Yeah check out their official Facebook Page and read threads like this one. Nicey nicey on the surface then you read the comments...out and out racism.

    https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...971447077&fs=5
    Links to right wing articles about Jeremy Corbyn are also a giveaway.

    “He hates Britain”, “Hates our armeh” and “He loves terrorists” are the comments of idiots. The billionaires in charge of these news outlets must love these utter mugs who would vote Tory out of principle even if it meant they were worse off.

    Looks like “Britain first” is back. They can GTF.

  30. #119
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    I see similarity between FLA & BLM, FLA started as anti-extremist group but are now fascist neo-nazi's (according to many) but then you chose to ignore BLM racist leaders and members who started as a group to fight inequality (Which is highly dubious when you look at stats - ie more whites are killed by the police - BLM seem to ignore or try and shift the blame about crimes black people are responsible for that put them in confrontation with the police - meaning more are getting shot and killed by the police. BLM are openly racist in their rhetoric and this does not sound like a group that promotes equality.

    For me it's more divide and rule both side left and right are getting played of each other to cause division. It reeks of double stands to call out onye set of racists but then turn blind eye to the other racists because they don't fit with the liberal idea that racism is mainly a white problem which of course Is totally wrong.
    If you can't differentiate between a group campaigning for civil rights and a group who's whole ideology is about isolating one group of the population for the hate treatment, then you obviously don't want to.

  31. #120
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    Why don't you simply type BLM racists into google and find out for yourself?
    I rest my case. Why would you want to type "BLM racists" into Google unless you didn't want to find a balanced view. Surely if you were looking for balance you would just type in "BLM"?

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