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  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I've never really understood why there's such a focus on the outcome rather than the behaviour itself? Surely the offence of recklessly endangering life while driving drunk is the same whether or not you actually hit someone and kill them?

    Or attempted murder, you get a lesser sentence bonus for being crap at murdering.
    So if you speed you should be sentenced to life imprisonment because you could’ve killed someone?

    Sorry, but it’s absolutely ludicrous to say the outcome makes no difference.


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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
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    So if you speed you should be sentenced to life imprisonment because you could’ve killed someone?
    Speeding and recklessly endangering life are not the same though.

  4. #33
    @hibs.net private member Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Speeding and recklessly endangering life are not the same though.
    Why not? “Speed kills” is common mantra used by traffic police is it not?

    Is there even a “recklessly endangering life” charge??
    Last edited by Steve-O; 18-10-2017 at 09:16 AM.

  5. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
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    Why not? “Speed kills” is common mantra used by traffic police is it not?

    Is there even a “recklessly endangering life” charge??
    If you drive a car on to a busy pavement you are recklessly endangering life, whether or not someone actually dies as a result. If you drive at 24mph along Melville Drive the worst you are doing is holding up traffic. Two entirely different sins imo.

  6. #35
    Coaching Staff HUTCHYHIBBY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
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    You’d be wrong then. If you INTENDED to kill someone, weapon used is largely irrelevant.
    Depends if intent could be proven but, folk seem to get lighter sentences if they kill someone using a car. I dinnae really want a debate about it as I cannae drive anyway.

  7. #36
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    As an expat of a decade or so I was utterly shocked at the standard of driving in Scotland when I was over for the cup final. I hired a car at Edinburgh airport and was all over the country on the trip from east coast, to Ayrshire, Glasgow and up to the Highlands. Whether people are drinking or not I was amazed at some of the risks people take - trying to overtake on blind bends, last minute changes of decisions and indicators going unused. Maybe I've just gotten older and more sensible, less rushed, and it was always like that but it seemed much worse.

    On the alcohol side, there's no doubt anyone who sinks 6 pints then decides to drive home deserves to get the book thrown at them, but you'd have to imagine there won't be a lot of that. more likely booze busts will have on tough and go morning after stuff when people need to make a deadline for going to work.

    How has the reduction in the limit worked out in Scotland, my anecdotal take on it was people had become utterly paranoid. It's ironic as the limit is the exact same here in NSW and it is not viewed as the same, for a couple of major reasons - firstly guidance - all drinks bottle or draft have a standard unit of alcohol and the authorities give you advice on what is likely to keep you under the limit - 2 units in the first hour, 1 unit thereafter and secondly governance - the 6 pint guy would also get the book thrown at them but should you be just over 0.05 but below 008 (England) then fines and demerit points can be given, it's not immediately a ban. I understand this is not the case in Scotland a bawhair over the limit is still a fail?

    The other thing I've wondered on - for those country pubs where you'd get couples going for a meal and having a pint with it - but that pint might throw you over so not worth the risk, in NSW we have the schooner glass which is 2/3rds of a pint. I thought this would be a good marketing opportunity for country pubs to offer schooners so diners can enjoy a beer with their meal in comfort they would not be over the limit, and crucially more than a half pint which hardly seems worth the bother at all.

  8. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by jockodile View Post
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    Whether people are drinking or not I was amazed at some of the risks people take - trying to overtake on blind bends, last minute changes of decisions and indicators going unused. Maybe I've just gotten older and more sensible, less rushed, and it was always like that but it seemed much worse.
    There was a series of tellybox programmes not that long ago where young drivers were being assessed for their readiness to have a car of their own and I couldn't believe what was regarded by the assessors as acceptable. It often seemed like if you didn't actually hit anything you were considered a satisfactory driver. Imo there is way too much emphasis in this country on whether you have a trace of alcohol in your system and not nearly enough on the quality of your driving.

    I don't know anyone now who calculates what proportion of a glass of wine they can have before they reach .05. It's not worth the trouble (even if you did carefully calculate, there would be others tut-tutting around you and giving it 'there's no safe level of alcohol in the system, you murderer').

  9. #38
    A work colleague of mine was caught drink driving in Norway and was sentenced to jail. It was not the "hardcore" jail, but jail none the less. Zero percent policy is the only way to be. I'm proud of this law in most of Scandinavia.

  10. #39
    First Team Breakthrough The Tubs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
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    Nearly every bike I see has a bell end on the saddle.��

    Funny, many cars I see have people shaped like bells behind the wheel.
    Last edited by The Tubs; 01-11-2017 at 11:02 PM.

  11. #40
    @hibs.net private member Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY View Post
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    Depends if intent could be proven but, folk seem to get lighter sentences if they kill someone using a car. I dinnae really want a debate about it as I cannae drive anyway.
    They get lighter sentences because there is almost always no intent to injure, let alone kill, a person. The sentence is for the driving offence, and the consequences of that driving offence are taken into account at sentencing.

    What good does it really do to keep someone in prison for multiple years who has killed someone accidentally, albeit through some driving error. There is a world of difference between that and someone who has intentionally murdered someone.

    Unfortunately, no sentence of any length is going to change the fact that the victim is dead.

  12. #41
    Coaching Staff HUTCHYHIBBY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
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    They get lighter sentences because there is almost always no intent to injure, let alone kill, a person. The sentence is for the driving offence, and the consequences of that driving offence are taken into account at sentencing.

    What good does it really do to keep someone in prison for multiple years who has killed someone accidentally, albeit through some driving error. There is a world of difference between that and someone who has intentionally murdered someone.

    Unfortunately, no sentence of any length is going to change the fact that the victim is dead.
    Thats all very good but, as I said in my initial post if you did intend to kill someone a car would be the weapon of choice if you were looking for a comparitively light sentence.

  13. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibby View Post
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    Nearly every bike I see has a bell end on the saddle.😅
    Absolutely outrageous restriction on personal liberty here. Fascists.

  14. #43
    @hibs.net private member Steve-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY View Post
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    Thats all very good but, as I said in my initial post if you did intend to kill someone a car would be the weapon of choice if you were looking for a comparitively light sentence.
    Not so, unless you managed to convince the Police / Judge / Jury that it was an accident. If it could be shown it was deliberate, you'd be charged with murder, not causing death via reckless driving or the like.

  15. #44
    Coaching Staff HUTCHYHIBBY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve-O View Post
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    Not so, unless you managed to convince the Police / Judge / Jury that it was an accident. If it could be shown it was deliberate, you'd be charged with murder, not causing death via reckless driving or the like.
    Aye, I know.

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