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  1. #61
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future17 View Post
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    I don't disagree with much of what you've said in your post but, in the interests of balance, this actually happened very recently:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/25/us...rnd/index.html
    Had to be one I suppose .... but what was notable was a member of the audience in Las Vegas saying that people who did have guns in their cars were afraid to try and use them in case the police thought they were the shooter and shot them.


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  3. #62
    @hibs.net private member easty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    You spoke too soon.

    The Donald has called the guy "sick". This before there has been any assessment of his mental health.

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    I don't see what's wrong with that?

  4. #63
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Not my opinion and just playing devil's advocate, but maybe there's a sense of "we told you so" from the rest of the world? Maybe there's a sense of it's all a mess of your own making?

    I personally think that people have become so accustomed to mass shootings in the US that it's taken on a kind of normality and the inevitable debate regarding the ownership weapons in the aftermath will take its usual course ensuring the next mass shooting is just around the corner.
    To be honest that thought entered my head this morning as well ....... after these type of events Facebook is usually awash with 'Pray for so & so' and 'OMG how terrible' etc etc, this morning there was barely a mention of it, in fact Tom Petty is getting more comments.

    Like you I really do think its got to the stage where its a bit like having a kid who burns themselves playing with matches .... there has to come a point where you either chastise the kid for not taking a telling about the danger of playing with matches and tell them the pain they are in is their own fault ..... or even better, you hide the bloody matches. Fail to take either option and its hard to have sympathy for the child and even harder to have sympathy for the parents ............. perhaps the Yanks should be referred to social services and have their population taken into the care of a responsible country until everybody grows up.

  5. #64
    @hibs.net private member Captain Trips's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapitalGreen View Post
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    It is so clear in fact that it is not clear whether it is the 4th or 5th floor.

    How can you be so certain that the light you see is a 2nd shooter when you can't even be certain what floor the light is emanating from?
    The Mandalay bay like most hotels over there its pretty hard to see what rooms are which as the windows are huge panels of reflective glass. That building is basically a massive mirror and that side of the building looks onto the airport. I would suggest that flashes are a reflection that could come from literally hundreds of lights out there. I assume again the windows do not open as every hotel I have stayed in over there the windows do not open.

    The Mandalay bay looks to me like the windows do not open so if there is a broken window where those flashes are then yeah it maybe a shooter who will have had to break windows like the main suspect will have had to do.
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  6. #65
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by easty View Post
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    I don't see what's wrong with that?
    Trump is not a mental health professional, so I'm not going to take any heed of his diagnosis. But many will.

    It's like the Pilot Wings episode. People with mental health issues are stigmatised, in the same way that Muslims are stigmatised by radical Islam.

    And all of that deflects from the main issue of gun control.

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  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Trump is not a mental health professional, so I'm not going to take any heed of his diagnosis. But many will.

    It's like the Pilot Wings episode. People with mental health issues are stigmatised, in the same way that Muslims are stigmatised by radical Islam.

    And all of that deflects from the main issue of gun control.

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    The GOP insists the vegas gunman's arsenal of weapons is a rite but the medical treatment for the multiple victims is merely a privilege.

  8. #67
    @hibs.net private member GreenLake's Avatar
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    I hope this guy left a note or laptop somewhere with the reason for his actions. It has to be the scariest thing that someone could just do something so horrible and deadly without any obvious motive.

    His brother said he had 'no history of violence. No history of anything couldn't give a s--- less about politics, religion, pointy hatted people etc, etc. He just wanted to get a royal flush."

    The worst mass shooting in US history was carried out by a gambler with unpredictable moods.

  9. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenLake View Post
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    The worst mass shooting in US history was carried out by a gambler with unpredictable moods.
    Modern US history, shirley?

  10. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan69 View Post
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    It clearly DOES look like the flashes coming from a rifle being fired.
    sorry but that could be anything

  11. #70
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    Yet another American gun tragedy, and this time it's the worst yet. It's incredible that one person could do so much damage in such a short space of time, but it's nothing new over there. Yet again there will be the handwringing from those politicians who take large contributions from the National Rifle Association and the gun manufacturers, and yet again nothing will be done to tighten gun control. It's staggering that in some states gun owners don't even need to register their weapons; that's before any discussion of limiting ownership!

    The Second Amendment fundamentalists have a strange definition of freedom to me. Free to bear arms with minimal oversight - well what about the freedom to live of those 59 people? It seems a rather fundamental freedom to have. The politicians who take their thirty pieces of silver from the gun lobby have blood on their hands; however, they don't seem to have a conscience, as they hide behind religion and talk of 'praying for the victims'. Crocodile tears as dozens of young lives are needlessly ended once again.
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  12. #71
    @hibs.net private member easty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Trump is not a mental health professional, so I'm not going to take any heed of his diagnosis. But many will.

    It's like the Pilot Wings episode. People with mental health issues are stigmatised, in the same way that Muslims are stigmatised by radical Islam.

    And all of that deflects from the main issue of gun control.

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    Saying someone is sick doesn't have to mean the same as saying someone has mental health problems though.

    I'm nae fan of Trump, but I don't think he's out of line calling the shooter sick and demented.

  13. #72
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by easty View Post
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    Saying someone is sick doesn't have to mean the same as saying someone has mental health problems though.

    I'm nae fan of Trump, but I don't think he's out of line calling the shooter sick and demented.
    I think he is, until the guy's motive and background have been established. How else will his words be interpreted, other than as mentally ill?

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  14. #73
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by easty View Post
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    Saying someone is sick doesn't have to mean the same as saying someone has mental health problems though.

    I'm nae fan of Trump, but I don't think he's out of line calling the shooter sick and demented.
    I read earlier that the gunman had a history of psychological problems, though the article gave no details. If that's the case, and if the guns were legally owned, there is something very wrong with a system which allows individuals with such case histories access to deadly weapons. Again, the blame lies with the legislators.
    HIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875

  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    I think he is, until the guy's motive and background have been established. How else will his words be interpreted, other than as mentally ill?

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    Is there any other way to describe some one who is responsible for such a act as anything but mentally ill? Surely they have to have had some sort of mental breakdown to consider this as an appropriate course of action before blowing their own head off?

  16. #75
    @hibs.net private member Steve-O's Avatar
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    There are many people who do terrible things who are not mentally ill. In fact the vast majority are not.

  17. #76
    @hibs.net private member Captain Trips's Avatar
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    Ok the guys a prick hows about that.
    If I choose to revert back to Carlsberg it will have to be The Carlsberg

  18. #77
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Is there any other way to describe some one who is responsible for such a act as anything but mentally ill? Surely they have to have had some sort of mental breakdown to consider this as an appropriate course of action before blowing their own head off?
    A senior official in Homeland Security, speaking on condition of anonymity, has told Reuters that there is " no evidence of mental illness or brain damage".

    Are they any more qualified than Trump to come to that conclusion? Possibly, possibly not.

    My point is that it is too easy to just label someone as "mad" when their actions don't fit in with so-called norms.

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  19. #78
    Scottish Cup Victory - Witness 2016 Scouse Hibby's Avatar
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    Describing someone who would commit such a horrendous crime as sick is fine with me. Once again It's a term often used that only some folk will choose to be offended by.
    "If a player is not interfering with play or seeking to gain
    an advantage, then he should be."

  20. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    A senior official in Homeland Security, speaking on condition of anonymity, has told Reuters that there is " no evidence of mental illness or brain damage".

    Are they any more qualified than Trump to come to that conclusion? Possibly, possibly not.

    My point is that it is too easy to just label someone as "mad" when their actions don't fit in with so-called norms.

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    Fair enough. There is 'so called norms' and their is killing almost 60 people and yourself...in my simple head that means he must have been mad / sick / off his rocker or whatever.

    I don't think using those terms will be conflated with people struggling with mental illness as even if medically he would be described as sane it's still an insane thing to do hence why there will be the use of such language to describe him and his actions.

    But I take your point and will leave it there as I'm sure we could debate definitions and labels all day long but honestly I'd rather not on this one.

  21. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenLake View Post
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    I hope this guy left a note or laptop somewhere with the reason for his actions. It has to be the scariest thing that someone could just do something so horrible and deadly without any obvious motive.

    His brother said he had 'no history of violence. No history of anything couldn't give a s--- less about politics, religion, pointy hatted people etc, etc. He just wanted to get a royal flush."

    The worst mass shooting in US history was carried out by a gambler with unpredictable moods.
    Little Knee Massacre was worst.

  22. #81
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan69 View Post
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    Little Knee Massacre was worst.
    Wounded knee?

    Bury my heart at wounded knee is a fantastic book by the way ....... after reading it you will be ashamed to be a white European

  23. #82
    @hibs.net private member GreenLake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Modern US history, shirley?
    Isn't all US history modern?

    I can't see one guy doing much damage reloading a musket but acknowledge groups of armed individuals massacred Native Americans.

  24. #83
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Wounded knee?

    Bury my heart at wounded knee is a fantastic book by the way ....... after reading it you will be ashamed to be a white European
    I've read it three times I think, one I always go back to.

  25. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Wounded knee?

    Bury my heart at wounded knee is a fantastic book by the way ....... after reading it you will be ashamed to be a white European
    thats the one...couldn't remember name clearly,great book!

  26. #85
    There are some odd stories going around about this:
    -Multiple shooters
    -Shots apparently seen fired from another floor
    -Some woman yelling to the crowd that they were all going to die about ten minutes before any shots were fired
    -Photos of the guy at some anti-Trump events previously

    As to the report that there was no evidence of mental illness, well that could just mean that he never saw a psychiatrist or took any prescribed mental health medication. I would suggest that doing this shooting points to some kind of mental health issues, even if they were not previously diagnosed.

  27. #86
    @hibs.net private member Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by What_the_deuce View Post
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    There are some odd stories going around about this:
    -Multiple shooters
    -Shots apparently seen fired from another floor
    -Some woman yelling to the crowd that they were all going to die about ten minutes before any shots were fired
    -Photos of the guy at some anti-Trump events previously

    As to the report that there was no evidence of mental illness, well that could just mean that he never saw a psychiatrist or took any prescribed mental health medication. I would suggest that doing this shooting points to some kind of mental health issues, even if they were not previously diagnosed.
    Utter codswallop - those of us that suffer from mental health conditions are stigmatised enough without every single act of mass violence (that isn't attributed to political/religious agendas) being attached to someone 'going nuts'. The amassing of the arsenal of weapons (undetected), the sending of his girlfriend away to the Phillipines (and transferring her the money he did) all suggest careful planning, conscious thought and an attention to detail, particularly to do all of this without triggering any suspicion.

    And of course there are odd stories going around - every single tragic event like this attracts the dissemination of false information and the tin-foil hat brigade.
    Okay, technically I'm a serial killer...

  28. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    Utter codswallop - those of us that suffer from mental health conditions are stigmatised enough without every single act of mass violence (that isn't attributed to political/religious agendas) being attached to someone 'going nuts'. The amassing of the arsenal of weapons (undetected), the sending of his girlfriend away to the Phillipines (and transferring her the money he did) all suggest careful planning, conscious thought and an attention to detail, particularly to do all of this without triggering any suspicion.

    And of course there are odd stories going around - every single tragic event like this attracts the dissemination of false information and the tin-foil hat brigade.
    All I meant was that someone capable of doing this may not have been completely "right in the head", which is obviously a pretty subjective term since people think that those with a different opinion are not "right in the head". It was an official statement that there was no evidence of mental health issues previously reported and that's all was referring to - it's a pretty meaningless statement to make.

    I have not looked at everything but there are various videos on YouTube and other sites where people claim to show footage of multiple muzzle flashes and flashes from a different floor than was reported. I'm not trying to substantiate any of them since I've not really looked into it myself. But just to accept the official report without question is not always a good approach either.

  29. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    I just get a cartoon drawing of a transmitter with an electric flash.
    Buy nothing online unless you check for free cashback here first. I've already earned 1,789.68!



  30. #89
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by What_the_deuce View Post
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    All I meant was that someone capable of doing this may not have been completely "right in the head", which is obviously a pretty subjective term since people think that those with a different opinion are not "right in the head". It was an official statement that there was no evidence of mental health issues previously reported and that's all was referring to - it's a pretty meaningless statement to make.

    I have not looked at everything but there are various videos on YouTube and other sites where people claim to show footage of multiple muzzle flashes and flashes from a different floor than was reported. I'm not trying to substantiate any of them since I've not really looked into it myself. But just to accept the official report without question is not always a good approach either.
    Has there has been an "official report"?

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  31. #90
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan69 View Post
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    Looks like a reflection to me. Also the sound of an AR would be much louder if they were that close to it.

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