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Thread: Mls/usl/nasl

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    Mls/usl/nasl

    I really wish that the football pyramid would take a proper system with promotion and relegation. Seems like NASL is being killed off to favor USL, but I wonder if a pyramid system is in their plans with USL as a tier 2 as it is more than half a development league?

    Any thoughts on MLS expansion favorites? Really hoping for a Phoenix Rising FC team in the MLS.


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    I believe that they recently turned down huge TV investment - billions of $ IIRC - as the condition would be that promotion and relegation had to happen.

    So we won't be seeing that anytime soon!

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    Think the TV bid was not serious, but agreed doesn't look they want any part of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZhibee View Post
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    I really wish that the football pyramid would take a proper system with promotion and relegation. Seems like NASL is being killed off to favor USL, but I wonder if a pyramid system is in their plans with USL as a tier 2 as it is more than half a development league?

    Any thoughts on MLS expansion favorites? Really hoping for a Phoenix Rising FC team in the MLS.
    I think if it did the Galaxy would drop down to USL this year as they are not only losing but getting pasted each game. One of the new MLS teams, Atlanta United, hammered us 4.0 last week and they look very good in their first season. I think it is healthy that big franchises in MLS have bad seasons to show that there is competition in the league. LA fans are notoriously fair weather but I hardly miss a home game even when it gets brutal to watch!

    Minnesota United is the other new franchise this season but the next team to join will be LAFC in 2018. LA will then have what might be called the Hollywood Derby.

    I think Drogba might own part of the Pheonix team so that might help their cause but a Miami franchise owned by Beckham will probably join first.

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    Standard with North American sports though isn't it. With things like the draft and such teams can even deliberately bomb in order to finish last and get the top pick. Not sure if that is a thing in MLS but certainly in other sports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenLake View Post
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    I think if it did the Galaxy would drop down to USL this year as they are not only losing but getting pasted each game. One of the new MLS teams, Atlanta United, hammered us 4.0 last week and they look very good in their first season. I think it is healthy that big franchises in MLS have bad seasons to show that there is competition in the league. LA fans are notoriously fair weather but I hardly miss a home game even when it gets brutal to watch!

    Minnesota United is the other new franchise this season but the next team to join will be LAFC in 2018. LA will then have what might be called the Hollywood Derby.

    I think Drogba might own part of the Pheonix team so that might help their cause but a Miami franchise owned by Beckham will probably join first.
    Maybe the Inglewood Derby.
    Drogba is a part owner. Miami is in, Sac, Cincy, San Antonio, Nashville, Phx strong contenders for next 4. Phx has the stadium plan, city size, and no other team nearby...but a crowded competition. For fun I'd say give 8-12+ NASL or USL teams MLS II status and play for a promotion spot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZhibee View Post
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    For fun I'd say give 8-12+ NASL or USL teams MLS II status and play for a promotion spot.
    That is what they should do definitely.

    They should also take away the draft and allow teams to develop their own. USA football won't improve until the players are developed in a similar fashion to the rest of the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZhibee View Post
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    Maybe the Inglewood Derby.
    Drogba is a part owner. Miami is in, Sac, Cincy, San Antonio, Nashville, Phx strong contenders for next 4. Phx has the stadium plan, city size, and no other team nearby...but a crowded competition. For fun I'd say give 8-12+ NASL or USL teams MLS II status and play for a promotion spot.
    American sports don't have relegation but they have the draft and salary caps to enforce competition.

    Pheonix would be a nice away trip.

    Inglewood Derby will be Rams vs Chargers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenLake View Post
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    American sports don't have relegation but they have the draft and salary caps to enforce competition.

    Pheonix would be a nice away trip.

    Inglewood Derby will be Rams vs Chargers.
    In sports with no competition elsewhere. Unfortunately for American soccer, there is competition. And so the draft, caps etc hinder the teams ability to get and keep any significant talent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
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    In sports with no competition elsewhere. Unfortunately for American soccer, there is competition. And so the draft, caps etc hinder the teams ability to get and keep any significant talent.
    Indeed, salary cap doesn't work in football/soccer.

    I figure the only MLS will increase interest is by more matkets captured, which might need a 2+ tier system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
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    In sports with no competition elsewhere. Unfortunately for American soccer, there is competition. And so the draft, caps etc hinder the teams ability to get and keep any significant talent.
    There is competition within MLS which makes it more interesting for MLS fans. Eleven different teams have become MLS Champions since 1996 compared to two teams in Scotland winning the league since 1985. There are plenty of leagues outside of the US unable to get and keep any significant talent. MLS fans like to watch EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga and Serie A over here on TV and nobody thinks MLS is on the same level but nothing on TV gets close to watching a game in a stadium. That goes for most sports.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenLake View Post
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    There is competition within MLS which makes it more interesting for MLS fans. Eleven different teams have become MLS Champions since 1996 compared to two teams in Scotland winning the league since 1985. There are plenty of leagues outside of the US unable to get and keep any significant talent. MLS fans like to watch EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga and Serie A over here on TV and nobody thinks MLS is on the same level but nothing on TV gets close to watching a game in a stadium. That goes for most sports.
    There's plenty of competition inside it but it can't compete outside for talent which means it can never increase it's level above what it currently is. As a professional coach I can only say that the college system, draft, salary caps and roster restrictions are hampering the development of US talent.

    Christian Pulisic had the right idea leaving to play at a better level outside his comfort zone and earn some real money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenLake View Post
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    There is competition within MLS which makes it more interesting for MLS fans. Eleven different teams have become MLS Champions since 1996 compared to two teams in Scotland winning the league since 1985. There are plenty of leagues outside of the US unable to get and keep any significant talent. MLS fans like to watch EPL, La Liga, Bundesliga and Serie A over here on TV and nobody thinks MLS is on the same level but nothing on TV gets close to watching a game in a stadium. That goes for most sports.
    Indeed, MLS seems to know their level, they will not compete like the NFL, but can find success among football fans who view the MLS as their local football affiliation, but also watch EPL, La Liga or whatever else.

    Since there is no MLS team here, I barely follow it. It is as easier to watch to EPL on TV...or in my case watch Hibs TV.

    At Phx Rising FC games I see numerous EPL shirts, several Bundesliga's, lots of Real and Barca, the occassional Italian or French, some Mexico, an assortment of others including 1 Scottish one (Me-Hibs), and maybe 1 or 2 MLS tops and that is is it. Without a MLS club in town it is hard to generate enthusiasm, like you say TV doesn't replace a game in the stadium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
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    There's plenty of competition inside it but it can't compete outside for talent which means it can never increase it's level above what it currently is. As a professional coach I can only say that the college system, draft, salary caps and roster restrictions are hampering the development of US talent.

    Christian Pulisic had the right idea leaving to play at a better level outside his comfort zone and earn some real money.
    True that, seems that the MLS won't increase it level much, but that is fine provided they don't aspire too being in a level beyond their means (old NASL).

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZhibee View Post
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    True that, seems that the MLS won't increase it level much, but that is fine provided they don't aspire too being in a level beyond their means (old NASL).
    Which is fine and in some ways very sensible however USA men's football will never improve without changes to the format.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
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    There's plenty of competition inside it but it can't compete outside for talent which means it can never increase it's level above what it currently is. As a professional coach I can only say that the college system, draft, salary caps and roster restrictions are hampering the development of US talent.

    Christian Pulisic had the right idea leaving to play at a better level outside his comfort zone and earn some real money.
    I can't see MLS ever competing with European Leagues but they do a good job internally in my view.

    The US team is having problems for sure and I can't see a quick fix. Some of my mates here are gutted over recent performances. Maybe you can make some suggestions to Pam Perkins, an English lady who is the Manager of Special Projects at US Soccer Federation. She is really cool and might be interesting to know on a professional level. If you can't find her contact info at ussoccer.com I can pm you her email.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenLake View Post
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    I can't see MLS ever competing with European Leagues but they do a good job internally in my view.

    The US team is having problems for sure and I can't see a quick fix. Some of my mates here are gutted over recent performances. Maybe you can make some suggestions to Pam Perkins, an English lady who is the Manager of Special Projects at US Soccer Federation. She is really cool and might be interesting to know on a professional level. If you can't find her contact info at ussoccer.com I can pm you her email.
    Yes they do a good job internally and you're right - they'll never compete seriously with the European leagues. For me though the league could do a better job by encouraging better talent and keeping younger talent here if the wage structures weren't that ridgid.

    On developing US talent I don't think USSF can change all that much - the game is too expensive, the college system is flawed and the club's can't sign players to youth contracts so will lose any exceptional talent to Europe for free so there's little incentive for clubs to develop their own.

    And dont get me started on NYCFC playing in that ****hole in the Bronx...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
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    Yes they do a good job internally and you're right - they'll never compete seriously with the European leagues. For me though the league could do a better job by encouraging better talent and keeping younger talent here if the wage structures weren't that ridgid.

    On developing US talent I don't think USSF can change all that much - the game is too expensive, the college system is flawed and the club's can't sign players to youth contracts so will lose any exceptional talent to Europe for free so there's little incentive for clubs to develop their own.

    And dont get me started on NYCFC playing in that ****hole in the Bronx...

    Interesting! I don't foresee youth contracts in the US, but are the seeds of an academy present in the MLS development squads(Sounders 2, Timbers 2...) ? I have seen a couple of them play this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
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    Yes they do a good job internally and you're right - they'll never compete seriously with the European leagues. For me though the league could do a better job by encouraging better talent and keeping younger talent here if the wage structures weren't that ridgid.

    On developing US talent I don't think USSF can change all that much - the game is too expensive, the college system is flawed and the club's can't sign players to youth contracts so will lose any exceptional talent to Europe for free so there's little incentive for clubs to develop their own.

    And dont get me started on NYCFC playing in that ****hole in the Bronx...
    I don't watch college soccer but maybe I should.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenLake View Post
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    I don't watch college soccer but maybe I should.
    It's alright - the problem is that the players are all roughly the same age and level with no chance of playing higher until 21 at least because why would they give up a college degree -probably a scholarship?

    But the mls clubs can't sign players to youth contracts because then they're ineligible to play at college if they fail to make the grade - why would a player throw that chance away?

    However for the development of US talent that system doesn't work!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenLake View Post
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    I don't watch college soccer but maybe I should.
    I will probably see some JUCO soccer this weekend, or an NAIA Women's game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
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    It's alright - the problem is that the players are all roughly the same age and level with no chance of playing higher until 21 at least because why would they give up a college degree -probably a scholarship?

    But the mls clubs can't sign players to youth contracts because then they're ineligible to play at college if they fail to make the grade - why would a player throw that chance away?

    However for the development of US talent that system doesn't work!
    Perhaps recent events in college basketball will spur some change in several sports-where common sense finally comes in. Alma mater is in a heap of trouble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZhibee View Post
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    Perhaps recent events in college basketball will spur some change in several sports-where common sense finally comes in. Alma mater is in a heap of trouble.
    Is that the adidas thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
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    Is that the adidas thing?
    Yes, it is a bad day when the FBI arrests your assistant coach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZhibee View Post
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    Yes, it is a bad day when the FBI arrests your assistant coach.
    Just a tad!

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    How do you envision promotion and relegation working when the league owns all of the teams? The teams don't exist at all in a legal sense. You could do a MLS II, but there is no way a pyramid could work in practice.

    You are also incorrectly assuming that USL teams want to be promoted to the MLS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
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    It's alright - the problem is that the players are all roughly the same age and level with no chance of playing higher until 21 at least because why would they give up a college degree -probably a scholarship?

    But the mls clubs can't sign players to youth contracts because then they're ineligible to play at college if they fail to make the grade - why would a player throw that chance away?
    I don't want to pull a "you don't know what you're talking about and dash" but surely if you're a "professional coach" in the US you realise the problems with your two paragraphs.

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    They have given out large cards with yellow on one side and red on the other. Perhaps to assist the referee when Jones makes a tackle.

    Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYHibby View Post
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    I don't want to pull a "you don't know what you're talking about and dash" but surely if you're a "professional coach" in the US you realise the problems with your two paragraphs.
    I do recognise the problems in my paragraphs - it's what makes it so frustrating.

    EDIT: To clarify my position as it has kind of gotten lost: I currently do not think the system to develop US talent is any good. In part due to the MLS structure and set up and partly the college scholarship issue.

    I'd like to see the MLS/US soccer have a pyramid system but the way it's set up obviously stops that anyway.
    Last edited by Haymaker; 28-09-2017 at 01:21 AM.

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    Pyramid works when MLS expands enough to start a second division, the demand seems to be there. USL can be a blended development league with small independent clubs.

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    Read that 2 expansion bids will be announced December 19-20. Nashille seems to be producing fake news that they have been selected, keeping themselves in spotlight, while Sacramento started their stadium construction. Cincy continues to promote themself as well. Seem crazy competitive... Still think Phoenix has the population and lack of a team nearby, and supposed stadium plan, that keep them in competition.

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