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  1. #1
    Promising Youngster Alfiembra's Avatar
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    How important is Grammar/Spelling these days?

    Have to admit, and much to my own annoyance, I'm a stickler for it myself, although I do slip up regularly, but hopefully not spoken only written. I get unnecessarily agitated when I see misspelled words and endless sentences with no punctuation or paragraphs.

    I'm no expert, and certainly not qualified to comment on others (only managed a C in O grade English) but I do wince when I hear "I seen" and "I done" etc. and often find myself correcting younger colleagues at work for it.

    One chap in particular I work with is quite bad for it, and the thing is technically he is a lot smarter than I am. I tell him that in years to come he will be in a more senior position and, rightly or wrongly, people judge you on the way you speak, write and present yourself. Also another colleague who is married to a schoolteacher and is the worst in the office for the I seen/I done clanger. If she lets him away with it what is she teaching her kids at school?

    Similarly on here and particularly over on the main board some of the grammar is woeful, and that's what annoys me about myself I can't let it go and just read it for what it is, someone's opinion.
    I feel with spell checking and autocorrect nowadays there's no excuse for it, certainly written work, just wish there was the same same technology for the spoken word.

    I do have to keep telling myself that I'm doing exactly what I resent in others, and forming an opinion based on what I see and hear, and most likely completely wrong.

    I need help.


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  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    I think context is important, what I would write on here (and the efforts I go to proof read and edit) compared to what I would produce at work in an email to a client are quite different.

    Although, on the whole, I disagree with you entirely. I feel communication is simply one person saying something and the other understanding it, regardless of it being perfectly "right".
    Mon the Hibs.

  4. #3
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    My mum is a retired primary school teacher who stressed upon us the importance of grammar, spelling and basic numeracy.

    I get really annoyed with myself when I make mistakes and do think about how to word things quite carefully - I struggled a bit to come up with the first line of this post.

    I'm not remotely concerned about hibs.net - there will be all sorts of different levels of education and literacy - it's a football forum and I find it pretty poor form when people pull up others for mistakes, paragraphs etc.

    Of far more concern to me is what is sometimes produced at my place of work to go to clients, and I own my own business. The command of the English language amongst youngsters these days is frankly atrocious. The lack of self-awareness and attention to detail is really alarming. We have had to put in place systems so that if anything is to be sent out then it must be proof read by one of the few people who actually have good skills in this area.

    I've actually found that foreign people tend to be better. They have a drive and desire to be the best they can possibly be in their adopted language, whereas young Scots just don't care.

    Older people put far greater emphasis on these skills and will make judgments on the quality of your business based on your communication.

    For youngsters good communication skills are more likely to be about how you communicate to 6 friends at once via text speak.

    In my opinion - it is a huge problem.

    (Cue a rush of people blaming whichever political party they hate the most).

  5. #4
    Promising Youngster Alfiembra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    I think context is important, what I would write on here (and the efforts I go to proof read and edit) compared to what I would produce at work in an email to a client are quite different.

    Although, on the whole, I disagree with you entirely. I feel communication is simply one person saying something and the other understanding it, regardless of it being perfectly "right".
    I absolutely agree with you, it's my own issues with, particularly what I hear that is so annoying to me. I'm glad in a way that I have never been in a position whereby my opinion of someone could have in some way influenced that persons career for example.

    I'm very judgemental I suppose, and find myself annoyed when I see someone on TV being interviewed and they have a very strong local dailect and is difficult for me to understand. I start to think if they are Scottish for example, that the whole nation will be judged by the way that person is speaking, and on the flip side I'm filled with pride if the person is clear and eloquent.

    Did say I need help.

  6. #5
    Testimonial Due Future17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danhibees1875 View Post
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    I think context is important, what I would write on here (and the efforts I go to proof read and edit) compared to what I would produce at work in an email to a client are quite different.

    Although, on the whole, I disagree with you entirely. I feel communication is simply one person saying something and the other understanding it, regardless of it being perfectly "right".
    The problem is, particularly with written communication, that certain rules of spelling and grammar exist to ensure that communication can be understood. When these rules are not followed, the likelihood of misunderstanding increases.

    It happens on here and in my work on a daily basis and it's always easily avoidable.

  7. #6
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    I'm as big a grammar-fascist as anyone. However, I have the same argument with myself (and others) every time this comes up.

    Language evolves, and with it so do its rules; given the pace of technological change, that evolution is so much quicker than it has ever been. What was "the correct way" when I was a lad wouldn't have been the case in the 30's, and sure as hell isn't the way nowadays. (just don't get me started on the use of the word "gender", FFS )

    Language is a tool of communication. As such, clarity and understandability are key. If that's achieved, then "who gives a **** about an Oxford comma"?

    Ironic LOL
    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 19-09-2017 at 10:29 AM.

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Old school: Vital
    New school: "What is gramur, m8"?

  9. #8
    @hibs.net private member Gatecrasher's Avatar
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    I worked in recruitment in my previous job and got emails written in text speak asking for work, those went straight in the bin. My new role requires very good English when I only consider myself mediocre, it depends on the environment for me as I'm happier to let things go on a forum such as this, twitter or facebook than I am in a professional environment.
    Dictionary is the only place that success comes before work. Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price. -Vince Lombardi

  10. #9
    Coaching Staff lyonhibs's Avatar
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    Wrecks my head to see slovenly grammar and spelling. It's one thing with auto correct on phones or whatever, but how can you hope to be taken seriously in a work environment if you can't correctly use your/you're or there/their?!?

    I do judge though, especially in the context of someone on Facebook going on some big spiel about religion or politics or just generally talking pish. Gives me a wee warm feeling to just correct some rudimentary grammar mistake and entirely ignore the topic on which they were so verbosely pontificating.

    If that makes me a knob then fair enough, I'm a knob.

  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyonhibs View Post
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    Wrecks my head to see slovenly grammar and spelling. It's one thing with auto correct on phones or whatever, but how can you hope to be taken seriously in a work environment if you can't correctly use your/you're or there/their?!?

    I do judge though, especially in the context of someone on Facebook going on some big spiel about religion or politics or just generally talking pish. Gives me a wee warm feeling to just correct some rudimentary grammar mistake and entirely ignore the topic on which they were so verbosely pontificating.

    If that makes me a knob then fair enough, I'm a knob.
    At least you're not a nob.

  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member Steve-O's Avatar
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    I don't know why, but I've always seemed to be quite naturally good at spelling (will probably spell something incorrectly in this post now) but I must admit I do tend to completely overreact to spelling errors by others, even in texts and the like. Just can't help myself and can't even seem to comprehend how such errors are made. A typo I can accept, we all make those mistakes, but an incorrect spelling of a word over and over again, I CANNOT ACCEPT IT!

    Incidentally, "would of" and "could of" are my real pet hates in grammar terms. I just cannot understand how anyone thinks that is how you say "would have" or "would've". Doesn't make any sense!

  13. #12
    I judge folk on their grammar all the time. If I see "should of" or a "where" instead of "were" I automatically think thicko.

    If I see it on a post on here I'm likely to either scroll straight past and not read the rest or I'll take the opposite side of the argument.

    Probably unfair but what can I do?

  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danderhall Hibs View Post
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    I judge folk on their grammar all the time. If I see "should of" or a "where" instead of "were" I automatically think thicko.

    If I see it on a post on here I'm likely to either scroll straight past and not read the rest or I'll take the opposite side of the argument.

    Probably unfair but what can I do?
    I've almost been there many times

    ... and then I remind myself that some people have dyslexia and the like, and their (well-intentioned and reasoned) opinions come across as "thick".

    And then there's those for whom English isn't their first language, like Fifers.

  15. #14
    @hibs.net private member SRH's Avatar
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    Don't think 'grammar/spelling' in the title should be capitalised. I could be wrong though.

    I've become less of a dick when it comes to grammar since I started posting solely with a phone or tablet.

  16. #15
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;5173505]I've almost been there many times

    ... and then I remind myself that some people have dyslexia and the like, and their (well-intentioned and reasoned) opinions come across as "thick".

    And then there's those for whom English isn't their first language, like Fifers.[/QUOTE]


    I suppose you could say they speak the King's English over there.

  17. #16
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    I suppose it depends if you want to help your uncle Jack off his horse or if you want to help your uncle jack off his horse.

  18. #17
    I actually didn't care until I went to uni and felt thick because I was being pulled up for sentence structure,use of apostrophes etc and I really didn't know where I was going wrong. I wish I had stuck in more at school when we were doing English,but it was so boring and pointless...at the time.

    I often cringe when rereading things where I have 'reverted to type'. Spellchecker has encouraged me to be even lazier though. So even as someone who gets annoyed by it, I still find myself falling I to the trap.

    Don't judge me guys, pacifically if I make some stupid mistakes...


    Edit: poor spelling😂

  19. #18
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beensaidbefore View Post
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    I actually didn't care until I went to uni and felt thick because I was being pulled up for sentence structure,use of apostrophes etc and I really didn't know where I was going wrong. I wish I had stuck in more at school when we were doing English,but it was so boring and pointless...at the time.

    I often cringe when rereading things where I have 'reverted to type'. Spellchecker has encouraged me to be even lazier though. So even as someone who gets annoyed by it, I still find myself falling I to the trap.

    Don't judge me guys, pacifically if I make some stupid mistakes...


    Edit: poor spelling😂
    I'm the same as you, or similar at least. I remember my first German as a foreign language course. It was full of students from all over the world who had obviously received a decent education regarding the building blocks of their own language and were all nodding approvingly when terms like past participle, article, nominative, accusative or genitive were used in lessons. For me it was like learning two foreign languages in stereo and simultaneously.

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    I'm the same as you, or similar at least. I remember my first German as a foreign language course. It was full of students from all over the world who had obviously received a decent education regarding the building blocks of their own language and were all nodding approvingly when terms like past participle, article, nominative, accusative or genitive were used in lessons. For me it was like learning two foreign languages in stereo and simultaneously.

    Sorry, could you speak English.😂

    It's something I am more aware of now, so suppose getting a bit better at.

    Funnily enough I took a intro to Spanish module and found that to be embarrassing. I hadn't given any thought to adjectives, verbs, masculine etc etc for a long time. Not much better now to be fair,but the nod to Latin helped me understand word structure and origins a bit better, or at least I seem to it a bit better. Eg carniverous, is not too different in Spanish and Italian, which means translating when abroad a bit easier.
    Last edited by beensaidbefore; 20-09-2017 at 05:56 PM.

  21. #20
    3pts away from home - i'm a happy glory hunter. jonty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    I've almost been there many times

    ... and then I remind myself that some people have dyslexia and the like, and their (well-intentioned and reasoned) opinions come across as "thick".

    And then there's those for whom English isn't their first language, like Fifers.
    write auld man, outside

  22. #21
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonty View Post
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    write auld man, outside
    I rest my case 🤣

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

  23. #22
    Coaching Staff lyonhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    I'm the same as you, or similar at least. I remember my first German as a foreign language course. It was full of students from all over the world who had obviously received a decent education regarding the building blocks of their own language and were all nodding approvingly when terms like past participle, article, nominative, accusative or genitive were used in lessons. For me it was like learning two foreign languages in stereo and simultaneously.
    In the UK we receive, or received at least, an absolutely shocking education in the grammatical building blocks of language beyond "noun" and "adjective"

    I spent a large portion of 1st year university French looking of the English definition of half the concepts/verb tenses we were getting taught.

  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lyonhibs View Post
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    In the UK we receive, or received at least, an absolutely shocking education in the grammatical building blocks of language beyond "noun" and "adjective"

    I spent a large portion of 1st year university French looking of the English definition of half the concepts/verb tenses we were getting taught.
    Conversely, at primary school I had a first-rate grounding in grammar. That made understanding, and learning, foreign languages much easier.

    It also made me the kind of old reactionary who thinks that, if I had to suffer that pain, then every other ****er should too.

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