hibs.net Messageboard

Page 1 of 12 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 332

Thread: Catalonia

  1. #1

    Catalonia

    Surprised this hasn't attracted any comment given the obvious parallels.

    It all looks very messy atm. How do we see this ending up?


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #2
    Coaching Staff steakbake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Gate 38
    Posts
    7,614
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Surprised this hasn't attracted any comment given the obvious parallels.

    It all looks very messy atm. How do we see this ending up?
    Probably some kind of independence for Catalonia and with the EU sitting on the fence as they wouldn't want to upset Spain.

    Hopefully, people here will take notice.

  4. #3
    Testimonial Due
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,012
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Surprised this hasn't attracted any comment given the obvious parallels.

    It all looks very messy atm. How do we see this ending up?
    Whats happening there?

  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,192
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Surprised this hasn't attracted any comment given the obvious parallels.

    It all looks very messy atm. How do we see this ending up?
    Franco is back.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Whats happening there?
    Referendum coming soon.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Whats happening there?
    Catalan government (which is an uneasy coalition of centrist nationalists and leftist radicals) has called a referendum for October 1st and the Catalan parliament has passed a law stating a Yes vote will lead to independence asap.

    The Spanish courts have suspended both the referendum and the transition law. The Spanish government (led by the PP, more or less their version of the Tories) has vowed the referendum is illegal and will not happen and that Catalan secession would be against the Spanish constitution. They have threatened to imprison the Mayors of local authorities that co-operate with the vote.

    Catalan government says it will press on regardless ...

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member EH6 Hibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Leith
    Age
    39
    Posts
    1,793
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Catalan government (which is an uneasy coalition of centrist nationalists and leftist radicals) has called a referendum for October 1st and the Catalan parliament has passed a law stating a Yes vote will lead to independence asap.

    The Spanish courts have suspended both the referendum and the transition law. The Spanish government (led by the PP, more or less their version of the Tories) has vowed the referendum is illegal and will not happen and that Catalan secession would be against the Spanish constitution. They have threatened to imprison the Mayors of local authorities that co-operate with the vote.

    Catalan government says it will press on regardless ...
    I wonder if there is likely to be any trouble following the referendum, I'm booked to go to Salou on 13th October. I knew there was a referendum planned, but I didn't realise it was so soon.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by EH6 Hibby View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I wonder if there is likely to be any trouble following the referendum, I'm booked to go to Salou on 13th October. I knew there was a referendum planned, but I didn't realise it was so soon.
    Don't stand in front of the tanks and I'm sure you'll be fine.

  10. #9
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    10,278
    I can't see anything happening as the referendum has no legal status. But if they vote for it it should be allowed to happen but I don't see parallels with Scotland as we collectively rejected independence in a legal referendum

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I can't see anything happening as the referendum has no legal status. But if they vote for it it should be allowed to happen but I don't see parallels with Scotland as we collectively rejected independence in a legal referendum
    Can't imagine you looked very hard.

  12. #11
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    1000's of people's Barcelona
    Posts
    31,382
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Can't imagine you looked very hard.
    He did explain his reasoning, and in the same sentence.

    It seems it was you that didn't look too hard.
    Buy nothing online unless you check for free cashback here first. I've already earned 1,789.68!



  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He did explain his reasoning, and in the same sentence.

    It seems it was you that didn't look too hard.
    His reasoning was that Scotland voted no. The Catalans haven't even voted yet. And that our referendum was legal, that's fair enough.

    But you really can't see any other parallels between Catalonia/Spain and Scotland/UK?

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    His reasoning was that Scotland voted no. The Catalans haven't even voted yet. And that our referendum was legal, that's fair enough.

    But you really can't see any other parallels between Catalonia/Spain and Scotland/UK?
    The weather?

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by pollution View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The weather?
    Nah, it's the McGinn/Messi thing that should leap out.

  16. #15
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    46
    Posts
    17,236
    The polls are close but there is still a majority against secession, 49%-41%. And even if there's a last minute surge and the secessionists win, Madrid wouldnt honour it. Catalonia is too rich and important to the economy.

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The polls are close but there is still a majority against secession, 49%-41%. And even if there's a last minute surge and the secessionists win, Madrid wouldnt honour it. Catalonia is too rich and important to the economy.
    Actually the Yes side is almost certain to "win" because a high proportion of the No side are urging abstention, including Rajoy and the King. That's assuming the vote goes ahead.

    What happens in the aftermath of a clear Yes result but on a low turnout is anyone's guess? They need international recognition and support and I think are unlikely to get either.

  18. #17
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    46
    Posts
    17,236
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Actually the Yes side is almost certain to "win" because a high proportion of the No side are urging abstention, including Rajoy and the King. That's assuming the vote goes ahead.

    What happens in the aftermath of a clear Yes result but on a low turnout is anyone's guess? They need international recognition and support and I think are unlikely to get either.
    Why would No voters abstain? That seems self defeating

  19. #18
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    19,416
    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Why would No voters abstain? That seems self defeating
    Because they're making the point that the referendum is probably illegal, and certainly not binding?

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

  20. #19
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    46
    Posts
    17,236
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Because they're making the point that the referendum is probably illegal, and certainly not binding?

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
    I see. I haven't really been following it aside from the opinion poll mentioned already. It would be peculiar that the majority would oppose secession yet potentially lose a referendum on the subject.

  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    edinburgh
    Posts
    10,492
    It's completely un democratic of Spain not to recognise this vote. Politicians are elected to carry out the will of the people. If the Catalans want to have a vote they should be allowed to. Spain should do what the UK did and make the case for remaining a part of Spain.
    The vote will be irrelevant as the no campaign won't take part meaning the result will be illegitimate.
    [SIGPIC]

  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The polls are close but there is still a majority against secession, 49%-41%. And even if there's a last minute surge and the secessionists win, Madrid wouldnt honour it. Catalonia is too rich and important to the economy.
    That can't be right the Spanish version of project fear have said unemployment will be over 40% within days.

  23. #22
    Testimonial Due Glory Lurker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Miles from in the know
    Posts
    2,119
    From what I can tell, Spain's constitution is loaded against self-determination. That is completely undemocratic, but they don't seem to be bothered.

  24. #23
    Testimonial Due
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,012
    Interesting one. I knew a ref was in the offing, i didnt know it was now set.

    Hard to know how it will end up, and a bery tricky situation for the EU to potentially manahe, in terms of whether or not to recognise.

    Its not really a fight i personally habe much of an interest in, but as far as i know catalonia is far morw prosperous and wealthy than the rest of spain, so why wouldnt they?

    FC Barcelona could be the real losers thougj - thrown out of the spanish league?

  25. #24
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    7,916
    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's completely un democratic of Spain not to recognise this vote. Politicians are elected to carry out the will of the people. If the Catalans want to have a vote they should be allowed to. Spain should do what the UK did and make the case for remaining a part of Spain.
    The vote will be irrelevant as the no campaign won't take part meaning the result will be illegitimate.
    Why bother though...experience has shown that even if they did have a referendum and the Indy side lost they will merrily ignore the result and just plan another one.

    Spain has little to gain from a referendum and very much doubt their position will change on that front anytime soon.

  26. #25
    This may be misreporting but Juncker says that both the Spanish Constitutional Court *and* a Catalan yes vote would be respected.

    https://www.panorama.am/en/news/2017...rendum/1835086

    Also says Catalonia would have to apply to join the EU.

  27. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Interesting one. I knew a ref was in the offing, i didnt know it was now set.

    Hard to know how it will end up, and a bery tricky situation for the EU to potentially manahe, in terms of whether or not to recognise.

    Its not really a fight i personally habe much of an interest in, but as far as i know catalonia is far morw prosperous and wealthy than the rest of spain, so why wouldnt they?

    FC Barcelona could be the real losers thougj - thrown out of the spanish league?
    Armageddon!

    Could actually be the catalyst that sees cross border leagues accepted by UEFA.

    Yet another country that would give us a doing in qualifiers though.

  28. #27
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    8,192
    Things just ratcheted up another notch. It looks like Madrid is going to play hard ball.

    https://t.co/hAAKCse6zG

  29. #28
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    edinburgh
    Posts
    10,492
    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Why bother though...experience has shown that even if they did have a referendum and the Indy side lost they will merrily ignore the result and just plan another one.

    Spain has little to gain from a referendum and very much doubt their position will change on that front anytime soon.
    That's nonsense. You know fine well the reason that there was calls for another referendum here. The prime minister himself said a brexit vote would be grounds for a second referendum after the promises made in the original campaign.
    [SIGPIC]

  30. #29
    @hibs.net private member
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Posts
    7,916
    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    That's nonsense. You know fine well the reason that there was calls for another referendum here. The prime minister himself said a brexit vote would be grounds for a second referendum after the promises made in the original campaign.
    It's not nonsense...'Support the 45' was literally created the day after.

    It's clear to pretty much any observer that the Scottish referendum result was simply ignored by the nationalists the moment it was announced. It was clearly seen as 'losing a battle and not the war' and their actions and words since have proven that to be the case.

    The same happened in Canada with their Neverendum and I reckon it would happen in Spain as well so I stick by my view that there is little for Spain to gain by validating a vote as even if the vote was No the Catalan separatists will just carry on regardless.

  31. #30
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    edinburgh
    Posts
    10,492
    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's not nonsense...'Support the 45' was literally created the day after.

    It's clear to pretty much any observer that the Scottish referendum result was simply ignored by the nationalists the moment it was announced. It was clearly seen as 'losing a battle and not the war' and their actions and words since have proven that to be the case.

    The same happened in Canada with their Neverendum and I reckon it would happen in Spain as well so I stick by my view that there is little for Spain to gain by validating a vote as even if the vote was No the Catalan separatists will just carry on regardless.
    Of course they will carry on regardless, but it doesn't mean that the powers that be will grant another referendum. The situation in Scotland was pretty unique in that one of the biggest tools used by the no campaign turned out to be completely false. If you believe in something, you will continue to campaign for that belief. Had the the EU referendum gone the other way there wouldn't have been plans made for a second vote by the SNP.
    [SIGPIC]

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2012 All Rights Reserved