What Can The Fans Do?

[The Harp Awakes]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's time to move on and stop wasting energy on this - I know the titles are tained, you know the titles are tainted and they know the titles are tainted.

What the board have advised is that anything further will likely lead to wasted effort, resource and time in a legal game of ping pong to get to the same conclusion.

If Hibs were robbed of a title or cup due to the EBT's then I might have more interest in pursuing an official investigation, but the reality is the only team that would benefit from any title stripping would be Celtic and I despise them as much as Rangers so who cares about them.

Let them keep ther tainted titles - we all know the truth (and so do they).

As so many others have said, this is not about stripping league titles or even Sevco now. It's about the SFA's conduct and the fact that the same guys are still in charge. If the SFA have nothing to fear let them instigate an independent review. The fact they are resisting a review makes it look like they have something to hide.

[MyJo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Those are just generalities. Do you have a link to the actual new rules?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

here is last seasons http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/ScottishFAPublications2016-17/Scottish%20FA%20Handbook%202016-17.pdf

7.2 Written agreements between Player and Club
7.2.1 In the case of a Player who has attained 18 years of age at the date of signing then such
Agreement between Player and Club may be for a period of time of not less than 28 days and
not more than 5 years. Any clause referring to a longer duration within the relative Agreement
between Player and Club who has attained 18 years of age at the date of signing shall only be
permitted if consistent with national laws.
7.2.2 In the case of a Player, who is under 18 years of age at the date of signing, then such
Agreement between Player and Club may not be for a period of time exceeding 3 years. Any
clause referring to a longer duration within the relative agreement between the Player and
the Club shall not be recognised and in such circumstances, the Agreement shall cease after 3
years, from the date of the Agreement.
7.2.3 The Agreement between Player and Club shall be signed by the Player and a Recognised
Official of the Club concerned and lodged with the Secretary via the Online Registration
Procedures or by post, email or fax together with the Professional Player’s Registration Form. A
duplicate, also signed by all parties, shall be given to the Player by the Club.
7.2.4 All payments, benefits, or considerations of any description which are made to a Player by
or on behalf of a Club in respect of or in connection with such Player’s playing or training
activities for such Club (other than re-imbursement of expenses actually incurred) must be
fully recorded upon the relevant written agreement contained at Annex 6 of the Registration
Procedures between the Club and the which must be submitted to the Scottish FA. No other
payments for his playing activities may be made to a Player via a third party or otherwise.
7.2.5 If the services of an Intermediary have been used in contractual negotiations the Clubs shall
ensure that the Intermediaries name and signature appears upon the relevant agreement.
7.2.6 If the services of an Intermediary have not been used then the Club must expressly state this
upon the relevant agreement.

[MyJo]

62. Powers of the Board
62.1 The management of the business and the control of the Scottish FA shall be vested in the Board, which
shall be entitled to exercise all such powers and carry out all such objects of the Scottish FA as are not by
these Articles or by statute expressly directed or required to be exercised or done by the Scottish FA in
general meeting subject, nevertheless, to any regulations from time to time made by the Scottish FA in
general meeting, provided that no regulation shall invalidate any prior act of the Board which would have
been valid if such regulation had not been made.
62.2 Without prejudice to the general powers conferred by Article 62.1 and of the other powers conferred by
these Articles, it is hereby expressly declared that the Board shall have the following powers:-
(a) it may make, alter and revoke all such rules, bye-laws and regulations relative to the use of
the property of the Scottish FA and to the conduct or holding of meetings, or for such other
purpose as it may deem fit and proper, provided that no rule, bye-law, or regulation shall be
made under the foregoing which would amount to such an addition to or alteration of these
Articles as could only by law be made by a resolution of the members;
(b) it may draw, make, accept, endorse, discount, execute and issue, respectively, promissory
notes, bills, cheques or other negotiable instruments, provided that every promissory note, bill,
cheque or other negotiable instrument drawn, made, accepted, endorsed, discounted, executed
or issued shall be signed by the President, the Vice-President and the Secretary or in such other
manner as the Board may determine;
(c) it may borrow any sum or sums of money not exceeding in all the sum of £10,000,000 on such
security and upon such terms as to interest or otherwise as it may deem fit;
(d) it may extend the playing season as from time to time it in its discretion shall deem necessary
or desirable;
(e) it may suspend the game entirely or in any district or districts or under the auspices of a
recognised football body as from time to time it in its absolute discretion may deem necessary
or desirable, provided that in the case of restricted stoppage it shall have power to exempt any
club or number of clubs or recognised football body from such stoppage;
(f) it may suspend or abandon or discontinue any or all of the competitions of the Scottish FA;
(g) it shall have power to call upon any recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other
member of Team Staff, player, referee or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA to
produce any books, letters, or documents or any other evidence at any time it desires;
(h) it shall have power to enquire into all and any financial arrangements between recognised
football bodies, clubs and players and to cancel any agreement between clubs and players
contrary to these Articles and to publish in the public press or otherwise the findings of the
Board in this regard and the substance of any and all evidence tendered in such enquiries;
(i) it shall have the power, where a recognised football body or club fails to make any payment to
the Scottish FA or to another recognised football body or club, to deduct and retain any sums
due to it and/or to another recognised football body or club from any monies, fund or account
held by the Scottish FA which would otherwise have been payable to the defaulting recognised
football body or club. Any such monies deducted or retained by the Scottish FA shall be
applied first to meet any payment due to the Scottish FA and thereafter to meet any payment
due by the defaulting recognised football body or club to another recognised football body
or club in which case if the sum deducted/retained is insufficient to pay all sums due to such
recognised football bodies or clubs, the remaining deducted/retained monies will be distributed
in equal portions between those recognised football bodies or clubs;
(j) it shall have power to affiliate any national football association within Scotland to which it may
or may not grant representation on the Congress;
(k) it shall have power to promulgate from time to time such regulations as it deems necessary in
respect of the requirements and standards of football stadia;
(l) it shall have power to pay reasonable travelling expenses, referees’ fees and expenses and other
sums where necessary in connection with all matches arranged by it;
(m) it may remove co-opted persons from any Committee or sub-committee by such procedures as
are prescribed by the Board from time to time;
(n) without prejudice to its common law rights in relation to compensation, retention, set off or
any other applicable legal principle, it shall have the power to deduct and retain or otherwise
withhold monies from members or recognised football bodies which fail to settle fines levied
by or any other financial obligations or liabilities of whatsoever nature, whether direct or
indirect, to the Scottish FA as determined by the Scottish FA (in its sole discretion) from any
monies, funds or account held by the Scottish FA which would otherwise have been payable to
the defaulting member or recognised football body, provided that this Article 62.2(n) shall be
without prejudice to any sanction otherwise imposed in terms of these Articles;
(o) it shall be entitled to revoke or alter as it considers appropriate any powers delegated by it from
time to time to the Professional Game Board, the Non-Professional Game Board or such other
Committee or sub-committee as may be formed by it subject to the terms of these Articles;
(p) it may disclose details of any registered player to such third party for commercial and regulatory
purposes; and
(q) it may appoint a commission formed entirely of co-opted persons (who need not be Directors
or ordinary members of Congress), all as it may think fit, to attend to and/or determine any
matter(s) referred to it by the Board.

[MyJo]

http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resource...20Protocol.pdf

page 78

[Ozyhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

62. Powers of the Board
62.1 The management of the business and the control of the Scottish FA shall be vested in the Board, which
shall be entitled to exercise all such powers and carry out all such objects of the Scottish FA as are not by
these Articles or by statute expressly directed or required to be exercised or done by the Scottish FA in
general meeting subject, nevertheless, to any regulations from time to time made by the Scottish FA in
general meeting, provided that no regulation shall invalidate any prior act of the Board which would have
been valid if such regulation had not been made.
62.2 Without prejudice to the general powers conferred by Article 62.1 and of the other powers conferred by
these Articles, it is hereby expressly declared that the Board shall have the following powers:-
(a) it may make, alter and revoke all such rules, bye-laws and regulations relative to the use of
the property of the Scottish FA and to the conduct or holding of meetings, or for such other
purpose as it may deem fit and proper, provided that no rule, bye-law, or regulation shall be
made under the foregoing which would amount to such an addition to or alteration of these
Articles as could only by law be made by a resolution of the members;
(b) it may draw, make, accept, endorse, discount, execute and issue, respectively, promissory
notes, bills, cheques or other negotiable instruments, provided that every promissory note, bill,
cheque or other negotiable instrument drawn, made, accepted, endorsed, discounted, executed
or issued shall be signed by the President, the Vice-President and the Secretary or in such other
manner as the Board may determine;
(c) it may borrow any sum or sums of money not exceeding in all the sum of £10,000,000 on such
security and upon such terms as to interest or otherwise as it may deem fit;
(d) it may extend the playing season as from time to time it in its discretion shall deem necessary
or desirable;
(e) it may suspend the game entirely or in any district or districts or under the auspices of a
recognised football body as from time to time it in its absolute discretion may deem necessary
or desirable, provided that in the case of restricted stoppage it shall have power to exempt any
club or number of clubs or recognised football body from such stoppage;
(f) it may suspend or abandon or discontinue any or all of the competitions of the Scottish FA;
(g) it shall have power to call upon any recognised football body, club, official, Team Official or other
member of Team Staff, player, referee or other person under the jurisdiction of the Scottish FA to
produce any books, letters, or documents or any other evidence at any time it desires;
(h) it shall have power to enquire into all and any financial arrangements between recognised
football bodies, clubs and players and to cancel any agreement between clubs and players
contrary to these Articles and to publish in the public press or otherwise the findings of the
Board in this regard and the substance of any and all evidence tendered in such enquiries;
(i) it shall have the power, where a recognised football body or club fails to make any payment to
the Scottish FA or to another recognised football body or club, to deduct and retain any sums
due to it and/or to another recognised football body or club from any monies, fund or account
held by the Scottish FA which would otherwise have been payable to the defaulting recognised
football body or club. Any such monies deducted or retained by the Scottish FA shall be
applied first to meet any payment due to the Scottish FA and thereafter to meet any payment
due by the defaulting recognised football body or club to another recognised football body
or club in which case if the sum deducted/retained is insufficient to pay all sums due to such
recognised football bodies or clubs, the remaining deducted/retained monies will be distributed
in equal portions between those recognised football bodies or clubs;
(j) it shall have power to affiliate any national football association within Scotland to which it may
or may not grant representation on the Congress;
(k) it shall have power to promulgate from time to time such regulations as it deems necessary in
respect of the requirements and standards of football stadia;
(l) it shall have power to pay reasonable travelling expenses, referees’ fees and expenses and other
sums where necessary in connection with all matches arranged by it;
(m) it may remove co-opted persons from any Committee or sub-committee by such procedures as
are prescribed by the Board from time to time;
(n) without prejudice to its common law rights in relation to compensation, retention, set off or
any other applicable legal principle, it shall have the power to deduct and retain or otherwise
withhold monies from members or recognised football bodies which fail to settle fines levied
by or any other financial obligations or liabilities of whatsoever nature, whether direct or
indirect, to the Scottish FA as determined by the Scottish FA (in its sole discretion) from any
monies, funds or account held by the Scottish FA which would otherwise have been payable to
the defaulting member or recognised football body, provided that this Article 62.2(n) shall be
without prejudice to any sanction otherwise imposed in terms of these Articles;
(o) it shall be entitled to revoke or alter as it considers appropriate any powers delegated by it from
time to time to the Professional Game Board, the Non-Professional Game Board or such other
Committee or sub-committee as may be formed by it subject to the terms of these Articles;
(p) it may disclose details of any registered player to such third party for commercial and regulatory
purposes; and
(q) it may appoint a commission formed entirely of co-opted persons (who need not be Directors
or ordinary members of Congress), all as it may think fit, to attend to and/or determine any
matter(s) referred to it by the Board.

Those are pretty wide ranging powers and yet Dave King can be found guilty by the takeover panel of acting as a concert party in the takeover of Sevco, he has ignored their order to make an offer for the rest of the club and this has not even raised an eyebrow at the SFA. New rules are only of use if they apply to everybody.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Deansy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Do you mean punished by their relegation?

[MyJo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Those are pretty wide ranging powers and yet Dave King can be found guilty by the takeover panel of acting as a concert party in the takeover of Sevco, he has ignored their order to make an offer for the rest of the club and this has not even raised an eyebrow at the SFA. New rules are only of use if they apply to everybody.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

the problem is the application of the rules on a consistant basis and the amount of people within the SFA that were complicit in helping the huns to cheat.

[blackpoolhibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That's exactly the problem.

It's a lot of people being really angry about something but not really knowing what they want to fix it. That obviously doesn't apply to everyone but a fair few seem to just be blowing up at anyone who disagrees with them.

If there was a clear objective and it was communicated well then I could see myself getting on board. As it is it just seems like a bit of a rabble.

Can only speak for myself, but I think a lot of folk are thinking the similar to me?

I believe a transparent investigation has to be done, not to strip them of titles, although I firmly believe that could still happen after aproper investigation.

The enquiry should be about who did what and when, and what were the consequences of these actions. And were there laws and rules broken by those making these decisions?

Can't for the life of me understand what anyone has to hide, if everything was done by the law?

[Basildon Hibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I also want an asterisk in the official records against every competition won by cheats. 100% not bothered about trying to punish Sevco for what Old Rangers did.

Same here.

[Basildon Hibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The Aberdeen fans issued a statement that was the opposite view of their chairman - can't we do the same ?

Aye. Here's their statement:

http://www.donssupporterstogether.co...ebt-statement/

[HIGHLANDLEITHER]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't disagree.

It it would have been absurd to admit Edinburgh City over Rangers though and would effectively have ended Rangers existence. A club of that size with the fan base and stadium with nowhere to play and instead bring in another part time outfit that would contribute nothing financially to the game just doesn't make sense.

Now I totally understand that would have been like Utopia to a lot of people but in reality it was just a crazy proposal and wishful thinking.

Nothing to do with utopia , that is just a supposition. How can it be absurd if the rules state how it should have been dealt with, and they were not applied.

[SunshineOnLeith]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Nothing to do with utopia , that is just a supposition. How can it be absurd if the rules state how it should have been dealt with, and they were not applied.

Because under the old rules when there was a vacant spot clubs that wanted in had to apply for it.

Only Rangers applied.

[HIGHLANDLEITHER]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Is this a rebrand of that? Think it might be. They are calling for an enquiry ...

http://scottishfsa.org/national-fans...rnance-issues/

I think this is the way ahead as sadly I don't think the board are going to change their minds. I hope they are getting the message ,given the number of posts on the subject, that they have let down the clubs supporters.
The fans organisation offers supporters of Aberdeen and all other clubs whose boards do not represent fans feelings to seek a proper investigation of the SFA and its officials.
I understand that not all Hibs fans want to pursue this through either a resignation that nothing will happen or just wanting to concentrate on their own club or a degree of apathy.
Personally I don't trust the SFA .Too much has happened that is plainly wrong and they don't want it examined.

[WhileTheChief..]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

that is just a supposition.

Eh?

[Stonewall]

For those of us who see a bigger picture, and don't want the issue swept under the carpet, I think we have to accept the club has bottled out on this. They may well have the support of the majority of our club's supporters.

I don't see any alternative other than to wait to see whether the Rangers Tax Case's attempt to find grounds for a judicial review bears fruit and then support it financially through crowd funding.

I can't believe the way I am being made to question my values, the values I was brought up to believe in, because of the attitudes of my club, many of my fellow supporters, the complicit media and the governing bodies ganging up to make me feel as if somehow I've mis-read and not understood the whole situation.

[Bishop Hibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The trouble is the best way to hit any business is where it hurts - in their pocket.

However, that of course damages the team as it'll affect our budget and ability to retain our best players and bring in new ones come January. So I don't see that as a realistic option.

That's one of the things that's so frustrating about this whole situation and the boards statement. It's left a large number of fans feeling voiceless and out of touch with the game and club they love.

Whatever your views on EBT's I hope everyone would agree that's not a good thing. And it's much harder to 'move on' when fans don't feel listened to our respected.

I'm honestly not sure what we can do. The club won't change their mind that's for sure. I suspect long term the good that's been done since Leanne joined will be partially undone leading to an alienated support.

In the short term the statement is putting pressure on Lennon and the players. The atmosphere won't be great on Saturday and if we don't progress as as well as hoped this season then questions will be asked about the direction and leadership of the club. Again not good for the manager, players or organisation.

I'll be there on Saturday and don't think I'll miss any games because of this but I definitely feel deflated.

Pretty much how I feel. I'd have packed Hibs in if The rangers had been allowed to start life in the top league. So would a substantial number of others. That's the only reason Hibs board took the stance they did to placate the fans. It's quite obvious from this statement that they don't give a damn about fair governance of Scottish football. Depressing really but Petrie, Dempster etc know the fans won't stay away over this.

[lyonhibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

For those of us who see a bigger picture, and don't want the issue swept under the carpet, I think we have to accept the club has bottled out on this. They may well have the support of the majority of our club's supporters.

I don't see any alternative other than to wait to see whether the Rangers Tax Case's attempt to find grounds for a judicial review bears fruit and then support it financially through crowd funding.

I can't believe the way I am being made to question my values, the values I was brought up to believe in, because of the attitudes of my club, many of my fellow supporters, the complicit media and the governing bodies ganging up to make me feel as if somehow I've mis-read and not understood the whole situation.

If the contents of 1 Hibs board statement are making you question your core values that you've had since childhood, I suspect you're taking the whole thing a tad too seriously.

[lapsedhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I can't believe the way I am being made to question my values, the values I was brought up to believe in, because of the attitudes of my club, many of my fellow supporters, the complicit media and the governing bodies ganging up to make me feel as if somehow I've mis-read and not understood the whole situation.

Agree. Almost surreal what's gone on and is still going on. Patently obvious to anyone brought up with a sense of honesty that the old huns' recent titles should have been invalidated years go. Whether it's now possible or worthwhile to do this, it should have been done with scarcely a moment's reflection.

[Robinho08]

Surely fans' groups of different clubs across Scotland can come together and organise petitions, crowd funding etc. 😕

[jgl07]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Because under the old rules when there was a vacant spot clubs that wanted in had to apply for it.

Only Rangers applied.

Correction:

Only The Rangers applied.

[Andy74]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Agree. Almost surreal what's gone on and is still going on. Patently obvious to anyone brought up with a sense of honesty that the old huns' recent titles should have been invalidated years go. Whether it's now possible or worthwhile to do this, it should have been done with scarcely a moment's reflection.

We've also been brought up to live within the rue of law, so what you might think is the right outcome becomes difficult when there are rules around it, or lack of rules that didn't cover it at the time.

[southsider]

If the branches of the Hibs Supporters Association based at Sunnyside feel strongly enough then an EGM can be called and an alternative statement from the Football Club can be given to the press. " This is what we, the fans, think about the situation."

[Curried]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

We've also been brought up to live within the rue of law, so what you might think is the right outcome becomes difficult when there are rules around it, or lack of rules that didn't cover it at the time.

Stop slavering

[green day]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If the branches of the Hibs Supporters Association based at Sunnyside feel strongly enough then an EGM can be called and an alternative statement from the Football Club can be given to the press. " This is what we, the fans, think about the situation."

It wont be a statement from the Football Club, it will be from fans organisations.

n.b. Aberdeen fans have done this.

Dont think it did much in the papers.

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It wont be a statement from the Football Club, it will be from fans organisations.

n.b. Aberdeen fans have done this.

Dont think it did much in the papers.

Their statement did receive press coverage. Statements will make no difference at all, without action it smacks of "down with this sort of thing."

[Andy74]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Stop slavering

In amongst all this I'm afraid this is about the only thing that isn't slaver.

We can all say how upset we are about what's right or wrong but what has happened was covered by rules, or in this case, was not catered for in the rules. All bodies that have looked at this including lawyers and courts have agreed that whilst it might not be palatable, the club were punished to the extent allowed for and there are no legal avenues available to change that.

So suggesting the club are somehow morally bankrupt or making us all question or values is the thing that is wrong here - the actual facts of the thing are that if it the justice part you are looking for, it isn't happening.

[Baldy Foghorn]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If the branches of the Hibs Supporters Association based at Sunnyside feel strongly enough then an EGM can be called and an alternative statement from the Football Club can be given to the press. " This is what we, the fans, think about the situation."

HSA can't speak on behalf of all the fans. It has 2,500 members, so no doubt, lots of "they are not talking for me" chat

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

HSA can't speak on behalf of all the fans. It has 2,500 members, so no doubt, lots of "they are not talking for me" chat

They could and should speak on behalf of their members though. Assuming they feel there's an overwhelming majority opinion one way or the other, that is.

[marinello59]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They could and should speak on behalf of their members though. Assuming they feel there's an overwhelming majority opinion one way or the other, that is.

Unless any statement suggests a way forward to see justice done then what's the point? The clubs know already how the fans feel. It's action that's needed now if people feel strongly enough about this.

[JeMeSouviens]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

In amongst all this I'm afraid this is about the only thing that isn't slaver.

We can all say how upset we are about what's right or wrong but what has happened was covered by rules, or in this case, was not catered for in the rules. All bodies that have looked at this including lawyers and courts have agreed that whilst it might not be palatable, the club were punished to the extent allowed for and there are no legal avenues available to change that.

So suggesting the club are somehow morally bankrupt or making us all question or values is the thing that is wrong here - the actual facts of the thing are that if it the justice part you are looking for, it isn't happening.

The SPFL have a legal opinion saying an attempt to impose further sanctions on "Rangers", by which they mean the New Huns, for the same offences the Old Huns were already found guilty of by LNS would probably fail.

Is the SPFL stating that it considers its own competition in certain seasons when it was won by a club found guilty of cheating actually a "further sanction"? Or is it merely tidying up an obvious loose end?

And by the way, since you mentioned courts, don't forget that the courts that have considered the Old Huns' tax shenanigans, including the Court of Session and the Supreme Court, ultimately found them guilty as well. As far as I'm aware that's the only courts they've faced.