What Can The Fans Do?

[Captain Trips]

It is hard at times just concentrating on Hibs but thats what I would prefer to do. Im happy enough to be able to rib any of my Rangers fans friends that their club is dead etc etc.

I have honestly had enough of Rangers oldco, their new club has already made sure they are about as popular and will forever get it tight vs us.

[worcesterhibby]

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Who were here the guys (Hibees - was it WorcesterHibee?) that setup the first football survey? They passed the baton on and iirc surveys are now controlled by some other entity. Presumably they didn't sign a gagging order maybe they could canvass opinion again?

Can't take credit for that I'm afraid..wasn't me.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Can't take credit for that I'm afraid..wasn't me.

It was Cheshire Hibee - seen one obscure English county, seen them all.

[Andy74]

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After yesterdays statment there seems to be lot of anger directed at the club and a lot of lashing out. Some of it seems bordering on uncontrolled which I don't think helps anybody.

I've always believed when you want change and want to make a point having a clear head, a clear strategy and a clear aim is important. Turning on fellow supporters and directing anger at all the wrong places helps no one.

So realistically in what way can those who wish to do so make their feelings clear? It seems a lot of people want to make a point but don't really know how to do it. I don't just mean in the short term and specifically Hibs fans either. Can fans from across a range of clubs work together to achieve whatever their aim is? Bearing in mind boycotts rarely gain much support and abusing the board only leads to an unpleasant atmosphere for the team to play in.

Given the Hibs statement is hardly the first indication that nothing further is going to happen I assume the wheels are already in motion re some plans of coordinated action? It would be a shame if an issue that some people feel so strongly about is reduced to scattergun criticisms across social media.

What is it the fans actually want?

I haven't really seen a consistent aim of any action.

It also has to be realistic in what is achievable in law.

[we are hibs]

Talk of boycotts and not attending games is almost as pathetic as the statement. Hibs are so far in the wrong here it's unreal but what difference is it going to make to Petrie, who is clearly still running the show, who is playing a waiting game to get his head role at the SFA? He doesn't care about hibs or the hibs fans.

[Ozyhibby]

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Talk of boycotts and not attending games is almost as pathetic as the statement. Hibs are so far in the wrong here it's unreal but what difference is it going to make to Petrie, who is clearly still running the show, who is playing a waiting game to get his head role at the SFA? He doesn't care about hibs or the hibs fans.

Think you are the first person to mention boycott on this thread?


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[High-On-Hibs]

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What is it the fans actually want?

I haven't really seen a consistent aim of any action.

It also has to be realistic in what is achievable in law.

Recognition from the SFA that The Rangers are a new entity with no major titles to their name would be a good start. Recognition that they were given a helping hand into the bottom tier of the Scottish Professional Football League (not punished) would also be helpful. Also futher details on the "new rules" which will apparently prevent a repeat of before and an explaination as to why they weren't implemented before.

I think this would satisfy most, if not all fans who are outraged with the current outcome.

[JeMeSouviens]

How about a minute's applause (for the dead Huns) in the 54th minute?

There would have to be some publicity out to say that was what it was for but it would be obvious how much of the stadium agreed (or not?)

[Badger0762]

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What is it the fans actually want?

I haven't really seen a consistent aim of any action.

It also has to be realistic in what is achievable in law.

Good question. I've talked about this with a few and most agree that they don't really care about continuing to punish Sevco, it's more about who knew what, when, and who was complicit in it all. I'm bothered by the levels or either corruption or incompetence (or likely elements of both) that exists with the SFA. If an investigation comes to show the top levels of the SFA knew, and either covered it up, or turned a blind eye to it all, they have to go. I may be wrong but it seems that there are too many people in the same or similar positions who were there or there about when this was all happening. Some heads in the SFA need to roll, and if Mr Petrie is one of them, so be it. That is achievable with an independent investigation imo.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Good question. I've talked about this with a few and most agree that they don't really care about continuing to punish Sevco, it's more about who knew what, when, and who was complicit in it all. I'm bothered by the levels or either corruption or incompetence (or likely elements of both) that exists with the SFA. If an investigation comes to show the top levels of the SFA knew, and either covered it up, or turned a blind eye to it all, they have to go. I may be wrong but it seems that there are too many people in the same or similar positions who were there or there about when this was all happening. Some heads in the SFA need to roll, and if Mr Petrie is one of them, so be it. That is achievable with an independent investigation imo.

We need heads on sticks to make sure the next set of incumbents know they have no leeway to *******ise the rules.

[JeMeSouviens]

I also want an asterisk in the official records against every competition won by cheats. 100% not bothered about trying to punish Sevco for what Old Rangers did.

[Keith_M]

I think the answer to the question is, sadly, nothing. We don't have a genuine concensus among the fans and, unlike Aberdeen, no particularly strong fans group to put our views forward.


For whatever reason, every club except Celtc have decided to move on and I think we just have to accept defeat and leave them to it.

[lapsedhibee]

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Good question. I've talked about this with a few and most agree that they don't really care about continuing to punish Sevco, it's more about who knew what, when, and who was complicit in it all. I'm bothered by the levels or either corruption or incompetence (or likely elements of both) that exists with the SFA. If an investigation comes to show the top levels of the SFA knew, and either covered it up, or turned a blind eye to it all, they have to go. I may be wrong but it seems that there are too many people in the same or similar positions who were there or there about when this was all happening. Some heads in the SFA need to roll, and if Mr Petrie is one of them, so be it. That is achievable with an independent investigation imo.

Continuing to punish? When have Sevco ever been punished?

[Andy74]

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Recognition from the SFA that The Rangers are a new entity with no major titles to their name would be a good start. Recognition that they were given a helping hand into the bottom tier of the Scottish Professional Football League (not punished) would also be helpful. Also futher details on the "new rules" which will apparently prevent a repeat of before and an explaination as to why they weren't implemented before.

I think this would satisfy most, if not all fans who are outraged with the current outcome.

I think your response illustrates why this won't happen.

A focused review of whether current rules and governance arrangements might be of some use but the waters are too muddied with expectations like yours above. Everyone seems to have a pretty different idea on what this is about.

[Tornadoes70]

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I think your response illustrates why this won't happen.

A focused review of whether current rules and governance arrangements might be of some use but the waters are too muddied with expectations like yours above. Everyone seems to have a pretty different idea on what this is about.

Two key points to start with would be -

Were the rules regarding the ineligible registrations adequately enforced?

Was Lord Nimmo Smith's interpretation there was no sporting advantage obtained by the EBT's the right one especially post Supreme Court ruling?

Its not rocket science. However I'm trusting in the Board that they've taken a decision in the best interests of Hibernian.

[Pretty Boy]

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What is it the fans actually want?

I haven't really seen a consistent aim of any action.

It also has to be realistic in what is achievable in law.

That's exactly the problem.

It's a lot of people being really angry about something but not really knowing what they want to fix it. That obviously doesn't apply to everyone but a fair few seem to just be blowing up at anyone who disagrees with them.

If there was a clear objective and it was communicated well then I could see myself getting on board. As it is it just seems like a bit of a rabble.

[WhileTheChief..]

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Continuing to punish? When have Sevco ever been punished?

Dress it up any way you like but Rangers fans had to watch their team play their way through the divisions. That would be classed as a punishment in most people's book if we leave the semantics aside.

[ballengeich]

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I think the answer to the question is, sadly, nothing. We don't have a genuine concensus among the fans and, unlike Aberdeen, no particularly strong fans group to put our views forward.


For whatever reason, every club except Celtc have decided to move on and I think we just have to accept defeat and leave them to it.

We'll not know whether other clubs have moved on until after the next SPFL meeting on 21/9. At the last meeting there was a vote for an inquiry. Some who didn't support that have come out in public, in what looks to me like a co-ordinated effort with the SFA to cover things up, but there may still be a silent majority prepared to act as a group even if they're unwilling to face the consequences of making individual public statements.

[Bostonhibby]

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Dress it up any way you like but Rangers fans had to watch their team play their way through the divisions. That would be classed as a punishment in most people's book if we leave the semantics aside.

That's because the original club decided to go into liquidation to avoid paying their debts, the new club applied to join Scottish football in the same way the other clubs that were trying to get in did. The League did them a favour and granted them entry and a licence well ahead of the teams that technically qualified.

It wasn't a punishment, its the same thing any new side has to do when they are allowed in, or qualify to get in, Edinburgh City being an example.

[Ozyhibby]

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What is it the fans actually want?

I haven't really seen a consistent aim of any action.

It also has to be realistic in what is achievable in law.

I want complete transparency on who knew what and when. I want to know why Andrew Dickson is still employed by the SFA in a compliance role after administering the illegal dual contract scheme. I want to know why Campbell Ogilvie was allowed to remain as president of the SFA long after it was discovered that he helped set up the dual contract scheme. I want to know why Greame Souness received an EBT 10 years after leaving Rangers about the same time he bought Tugay from them using £1.3m of Blackburn's money. I want to know why Walter Smith was given an EBT while manager of Everton?
Why did the SFA let the SPFL set up the LNS enquiry when the SFA is in charge of player registrations? Why has there not been a single disciplinary procedure from the SFA despite Rangers playing these players in the Scottish cup?
The SFA were informed after the Boumsong raid that there was a problem with Rangers contracts and HMRC asked for all SFA copies to be sent to them. Why did they not investigate then?
I could go on and on and on. There are hundreds of questions needing answered.
As far as I'm concerned I would take an enquiry that promised no title stripping as long as there was absolute full disclosure of everything that went on. Kind of like a plea bargain. You can keep the titles but we want absolutely every bit of information on every individual involved.
From that it's just possible that we can put in place a system of governance that everyone in Scottish football can trust. Without full disclosure, we have no chance.



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[lapsedhibee]

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Dress it up any way you like but Rangers fans had to watch their team play their way through the divisions. That would be classed as a punishment in most people's book if we leave the semantics aside.

No need to dress it up any way at all, and especially not as huns, the MSM and now you have done.

The Thes were done a huge favour being allowed in to the fourth tier. They've not been punished for anything.

[WhileTheChief..]

I don't disagree.

It it would have been absurd to admit Edinburgh City over Rangers though and would effectively have ended Rangers existence. A club of that size with the fan base and stadium with nowhere to play and instead bring in another part time outfit that would contribute nothing financially to the game just doesn't make sense.

Now I totally understand that would have been like Utopia to a lot of people but in reality it was just a crazy proposal and wishful thinking.

[oldbutdim]

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No need to dress it up any way at all, and especially not as huns, the MSM and now you have done.

The Thes were done a huge favour being allowed in to the fourth tier. They've not been punished for anything.

It's strange how 'punishments' and 'consequences' have become interchangeable in the last few years.

[MyJo]

Any boycott of league games by supporters is only going to hurt the clubs we support and the SPFL who are actually pushing for an enquiry.

The problem is the SFA so the obvious solution for any boycott would be things that are run by the SFA including the Scottish Cup & National teams, any events at Hampden and all the associated sponsors of these things.

[lapsedhibee]

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I don't disagree.

It it would have been absurd to admit Edinburgh City over Rangers though and would effectively have ended Rangers existence. A club of that size with the fan base and stadium with nowhere to play and instead bring in another part time outfit that would contribute nothing financially to the game just doesn't make sense.

Now I totally understand that would have been like Utopia to a lot of people but in reality it was just a crazy proposal and wishful thinking.

Just like it would have been absurd to run a top tier without The Thes in it. Crazy. Financial Armageddon.

[Tornadoes70]

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I don't disagree.

It it would have been absurd to admit Edinburgh City over Rangers though and would effectively have ended Rangers existence. A club of that size with the fan base and stadium with nowhere to play and instead bring in another part time outfit that would contribute nothing financially to the game just doesn't make sense.

Now I totally understand that would have been like Utopia to a lot of people but in reality it was just a crazy proposal and wishful thinking.

There's a great deal of truth in this. The governing bodies and a number of clubs took this viewpoint at the time which was the pragmatic one. I'm not saying it was the morally correct one as it wasn't, however they had a dilemma and a decision to make and chose what they thought to be the wiser one.

[Bostonhibby]

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I don't disagree.

It it would have been absurd to admit Edinburgh City over Rangers though and would effectively have ended Rangers existence. A club of that size with the fan base and stadium with nowhere to play and instead bring in another part time outfit that would contribute nothing financially to the game just doesn't make sense.

Now I totally understand that would have been like Utopia to a lot of people but in reality it was just a crazy proposal and wishful thinking.

Fair comment, but what we are seeing is the rules becoming flexible there but no one in authority able to apply a bit of flexible thinking to the previous rules which they say leaves them with no remedy to the now defuncts conduct.

A wee bit of similar imagination could see the current encumbents saying its a civil matter, we believe there's enough info now, including Murrays own statement about gaining an advantage and the now obvious illegality of the hidden side letters (not the EBT's which are another issue) and voiding the trophies gained in that period in some way. An asterisk in the record books would do me.

To my mind that takes some of the pressure off and restores a bit faith for the future they are asking us to buy into.

The separate issue of the enquiry needs to then run it's course. It looks like a battle of those who have the info and the need to supress it, and the stamina and finances of those who really want to do something about it. The rangers are now ahead on points as they get to dip in and out of the history of the now defunct Glasgow rangers when it suits them.

I only know two huns and they've both sent me jokey wee texts thanking Hibs for our support.

[lapsedhibee]

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It's strange how 'punishments' and 'consequences' have become interchangeable in the last few years.

Indeed. The drip, drip, drip of slime coming out of the fat slug Traynor's gob and repeated by a supine MSM over the last five years has had its intended effect.

[SunshineOnLeith]

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Think you are the first person to mention boycott on this thread?


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There's a poster on the first page who says they're boycotting rangers games st Easter road.

[JeMeSouviens]

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There's a great deal of truth in this. The governing bodies and a number of clubs took this viewpoint at the time which was the pragmatic one. I'm not saying it was the morally correct one as it wasn't, however they had a dilemma and a decision to make and chose what they thought to be the wiser one.

The governing bodies and most of the SPL clubs (I'm now pretty certain that included ours) would have put the New Huns straight into the top league and tried to carry on as "normal" in the name of pragmatism. It was only threatened boycotts by supporters that stopped them.

The new club did get a leg up into the SFL bottom division but as there had never been a hard and fast set of rules about who (if anyone) was allowed in*, most people were content to let that go. If the New Huns follow their predecessors down the pan then Third Rangers might not get that so easy now that there's the Highland/Lowland pyramid and play off.

* see for example, the fast track given to ICT.