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View Poll Results: Are you happy with Hibs' statement on an EBT enquiry?

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  • Yes, I support the board

    49 11.14%
  • Not bothered either way

    109 24.77%
  • No, I want an enquiry

    282 64.09%
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  1. #91
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    I'm trying to focus on the football for once. Joy rather than more turmoil is the aim.


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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by .Sean. View Post
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    I'm about as far from happy as possible, the board are cowards to a man (and woman). Congratulations on smashing a big dent in the feel-good factor that's taken years to build.

    Every single supporter in Scotland who bought tickets during the EBT years were conned as it was a rigged competition, yet our club seemingly deem this as acceptable and brush it under the carpet for some reason.

    I honestly can't understand folk giving it let's just move on chat, if the Huns can get away with it once would you be surprised to see them pulling another ****s trick? Seems they're getting the running of Scottish football and when one of the supposed bigger clubs (US) have completely shat it in coming together and taking them to task then that speaks volumes.

    This isn't just any club either. Have the board forgotten the lies perpetrated and how Rangers portrayed our club after the Cup Final?
    Well said Sean, totally agree with every word mate.

  4. #93
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadtom View Post
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    I think this is indicative of this whole sorry sh**storm.
    The constant lies and misinformation that the authorities have allowed to be spouted so often they are now passed as facts.

    The point is, and its a crucial one, rankgers were NOT demoted to the bottom tier. They ceased to exist, started again and were given a helping hand INTO the bottom tier. Completely at odds with the ruling bodies own guidelines and rules, a blind eye was turned to HELP newco f.c. as they did not fit the criteria, it was not to punish oldco f.c.
    As this has never been forcefully argued by the authorities it has allowed this lie to become passed of as fact.

    I guess they have always been fearful of riling the nutters connected with sevco and that decisions have been made with their personal safety as paramount.
    A deeper concern is that they are culpable, including RP and are concerned their collusion and compliance will be outed.
    Its a poor show from Hibs.
    Some good points made there, ST.

  5. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thecat23 View Post
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    Brilliant post. Those are real facts, yet some still won't except it.
    If we already know the real facts, why do we need an enquiry?

  6. #95
    @hibs.net private member MrSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunshineOnLeith View Post
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    If we already know the real facts, why do we need an enquiry?
    I'd be happy to skip right to the prosecutions!

  7. #96
    @hibs.net private member Cropley10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunshineOnLeith View Post
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    If we already know the real facts, why do we need an enquiry?
    To call to account our corrupt so-called governing body

  8. #97
    @hibs.net private member Cropley10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy74 View Post
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    That's a lot of vague notions. What specifically would an enquiry address?
    How they could continue to lead with such high standards of governance, perhaps?

  9. #98
    @hibs.net private member Cropley10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    Do you think they weren't aware of supporter feeling?

    When the reps are appointed, people should be voting for those you trust to represent you, not somebody that comes on here (for example) evrey 5 minutes asking what they should do.
    You sir are what the ignore function was designed for.

    More folk should just mute you, you tedious, boring troll.

  10. #99
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cropley10 View Post
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    You sir are what the ignore function was designed for.

    More folk should just mute you, you tedious, boring troll.
    Eh? You've lost me there.

  11. #100
    @hibs.net private member Cropley10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    Nonsense. We don't know what was said during board meetings. Maybe they put across the supporters' points of view very well.

    It's also possible (likely?) that copies of any legal studies/reports were to hand. If lawyers say that there's no point in proceeding then I'd believe them, especially given that they'd be the only ones to benefit financially win or lose (a Rangers appeal against official sanctions would result in thousands of billable hours on both sides).

    As for the decision being unanimous, I for one want want board members, fans' reps or not, to vote with their heads and not their hearts.
    My final word - this whole farrago has all the legal status of a decision made at your local golf club.

    There is nothing stopping a judicial review of the SFA or their decisions.

  12. #101
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cropley10 View Post
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    My final word - this whole farrago has all the legal status of a decision made at your local golf club.

    There is nothing stopping a judicial review of the SFA or their decisions.
    That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I'd like you to give an example of me trolling though.

  13. #102
    First Team Breakthrough Skol's Avatar
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    I am not sure what people expect to gain from anything more on this.

    OK, I hate Rangers as much as the next man. The broke the rules on many fronts and as a result ceased to exist. Our authorities rightly didnt allow them to reform and retain their place but bent the rules to allow them to start in the 4th tier. Many have issues with this, but I dont. The new club though are a new club. They just happen to have the same supporters and infrastructure. However for all their bold claims, they have no honours other than those won since they re-formed.

    Yes what Rangers did was wrong, but the club that cheated no longer exist and so whats the point of an enquiry. I dont believe the SFA or SPFL knew anything of what was going on at the time.

  14. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
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    I am not sure what people expect to gain from anything more on this.

    OK, I hate Rangers as much as the next man. The broke the rules on many fronts and as a result ceased to exist. Our authorities rightly didnt allow them to reform and retain their place but bent the rules to allow them to start in the 4th tier. Many have issues with this, but I dont. The new club though are a new club. They just happen to have the same supporters and infrastructure. However for all their bold claims, they have no honours other than those won since they re-formed.

    Yes what Rangers did was wrong, but the club that cheated no longer exist and so whats the point of an enquiry. I dont believe the SFA or SPFL knew anything of what was going on at the time.
    It's not really a question of whether they knew at the time. It's what they did or didn't do when they found out.

  15. #104
    First Team Breakthrough Skol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    It's not really a question of whether they knew at the time. It's what they did or didn't do when they found out.
    The club didnt exist by that time

  16. #105
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    It's not really a question of whether they knew at the time. It's what they did or didn't do when they found out.
    I'd imagine they took legal advice every step of the way and on every decision that was taken. At the time Rod Petrie spoke publicly of sporting integrity and, if he was comfortable with how the matter was dealt with at the time (in regulatory terms) then maybe it's normal that he doesn't accept the need for a potentially very expensive enquiry.

  17. #106
    @hibs.net private member Cropley10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
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    I dont believe the SFA or SPFL knew anything of what was going on at the time.
    Sadly they did. They were in on it all. And that's why we need an enquiry.

  18. #107
    First Team Breakthrough Skol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cropley10 View Post
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    Sadly they did. They were in on it all. And that's why we need an enquiry.
    I dont believe anyone outwith Celtic supporters really think that way.

  19. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
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    The club didnt exist by that time
    And?

  20. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
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    I am not sure what people expect to gain from anything more on this.

    OK, I hate Rangers as much as the next man. The broke the rules on many fronts and as a result ceased to exist. Our authorities rightly didnt allow them to reform and retain their place but bent the rules to allow them to start in the 4th tier. Many have issues with this, but I dont. The new club though are a new club. They just happen to have the same supporters and infrastructure. However for all their bold claims, they have no honours other than those won since they re-formed.

    Yes what Rangers did was wrong, but the club that cheated no longer exist and so whats the point of an enquiry. I dont believe the SFA or SPFL knew anything of what was going on at the time.
    Seriously?

    Campbell Ogilvie was SFA Vice President while getting paid by a ******g ebt!

  21. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    I'd imagine they took legal advice every step of the way and on every decision that was taken. At the time Rod Petrie spoke publicly of sporting integrity and, if he was comfortable with how the matter was dealt with at the time (in regulatory terms) then maybe it's normal that he doesn't accept the need for a potentially very expensive enquiry.
    And I'd imagine that the reason the SFA are so determined that no inspection of their behaviour should take place is because one or more of its members (past or present, and not necessarily RP) would be embarrassed about something or other. Didn't you find anything at all odd about the LNS report, for example?

  22. #111
    @hibs.net private member Cropley10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
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    I dont believe anyone outwith Celtic supporters really think that way.
    What makes you say that.

  23. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Seriously?

    Campbell Ogilvie was SFA Vice President while getting paid by a ******g ebt!
    Doesnt mean he told anyone at the SFA. In fact if he knew it was dodgy or illegal, why would you ? Means CO is corrupt but not the SFA

  24. #113
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    While I agree sevco in any other normal set up would lose titles but this is Scotland with its unique sectarian issues and a governing body run for the two so called big clubs. Milne at Aberdeen has said the same as Ld and only celtic are wanting to go for the tItles being stripped. Of course the tItles should be stripped but we all know it ain't gonna happen and like the charities hertz bumped justice isn't gonna happen. Better to move on but point out at every opportunity that the sevco titles are tainted as we're the two cups hertz won using millions they never had. They are both huge embarrassments to Scottish football and always will be.

  25. #114
    @hibs.net private member Cropley10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Seriously?

    Campbell Ogilvie was SFA Vice President while getting paid by a ******g ebt!
    And thats just for starters! Thank you.

  26. #115
    @hibs.net private member Cropley10's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
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    Doesnt mean he told anyone at the SFA. In fact if he knew it was dodgy or illegal, why would you ? Means CO is corrupt but not the SFA
    You must be at the wind up.

  27. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
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    I am not sure what people expect to gain from anything more on this.

    OK, I hate Rangers as much as the next man. The broke the rules on many fronts and as a result ceased to exist. Our authorities rightly didnt allow them to reform and retain their place but bent the rules to allow them to start in the 4th tier. Many have issues with this, but I dont. The new club though are a new club. They just happen to have the same supporters and infrastructure. However for all their bold claims, they have no honours other than those won since they re-formed.

    Yes what Rangers did was wrong, but the club that cheated no longer exist and so whats the point of an enquiry. I dont believe the SFA or SPFL knew anything of what was going on at the time.
    You don't believe Campbell Ogilvie, on the board of the SFA, EBT recipient and the man who signed of the first of the ebt's knew what was going on?
    That's incredible.


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  28. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cropley10 View Post
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    Sadly they did. They were in on it all. And that's why we need an enquiry.
    Imagine how raging Cropley10 would be if there was an enquiry and it found that nobody was 'in on it'.

    That's why we need an enquiry into the enquiry!

  29. #118
    Testimonial Due sadtom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crabis View Post
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    So, they are culpable of turning a blind eye to their own rules regarding the recruitment of newco to the bottom tier?

    In other words, that is the worrst that an enquiry could conclude?

    And you still want an enquiry?

    Why?
    No. That is not the point i'm trying to make.
    That was merely to show that the authorities and their acolytes in the press could have shot down the myth that derhun were 'punished' every time the 'demoted' nonsense was spouted. They chose not to. This allowed the 'demoted' myth to gain currency, to be constantly repeated until such time it became the common byline to accompany newco's participation in the bottom tier. This was one of the main factors in derhun creating a 'victim' complex around their second coming. It allowed them to view themselves as 'persecuted' to justify their misplaced, beetroot faced (blue nosed) rage against everyone who stood up to them. When in fact their crimson complexion, should have been attributed to feelings of shame and embarrassment for cheating their way to success and robbing every paying punter in Scottish football.
    That one simple option, 'to refute the 'demoted tag' (that seemed to accompany any comment on the subject, in the msm in particular) from the outset was not taken up.
    The truth is they actually joined in with the fallacy that oldco were demoted. This ultimately contributed to derhun being able to establish a self justified, victim, seige mentality, that saw them spit venom and lash out threats of retribution, boycotts and revenge with impunity. This came from every random hunmonkey who had a mic shoved in their face, right up to king-of-derhun, Wattie Smith.
    Instead of showing contrition and regret, while offering apology and begging for forgiveness, after receiving assistance NOT punishment from the Scottish football community.
    They instead reverted to type and felt (self)justified in presenting the epitome of the cartoon hun. Pompous, swaggering, self-righteous, defiant, angry-faced wee bigots. With a hugely over inflated opinion of their place in the world never mind Scottish football.

    Why did those individuals in positions of power within Scottish football not chose to quash the myth of 'demotion and punishment'?
    I would guess there are several reasons.
    As i suggested earlier. I reckon they were probably sh*t-scared for their own safety. Lets face it, derhun have plenty previous when it comes to intimidation and violence.
    They were most likely being 'leant on' by people in positions of power in Scottish/British society, both inside and outside the footballing world.
    I think they overestimated the financial importance of oldco to Scottish football. It certainly became obvious that the game could survive and even flourish without the odious stench of their boorish bigotry.
    It dont think it can be discounted that their may also have been more corrupt or sinister reasons during the whole 5 year process, from possible financial impropriety, to mutually beneficial arrangements.
    I think its more than likely that accusations of mismanagement and incompetence have validity.

    Whatever the case. This is why i want a full independent, investigation of the whole sorry, shambolic affair.
    To hold the officials and the organisations to account. If they have nothing to hide then i would think they would welcome the opportunity to clear themselves and remove the dark cloud that hangs over the game.

    And yes, i absolutely believe that the titles from the EBT years should be removed from the dead club's record. You dont reward theft by allowing the thief to retain their ill-gotten gains.
    If it takes an independent revue to establish this then so-be-it.

    For the record i believe oldco's 'crimes' date well before the EBT years. Back to the mid/late 80's and the beginning of Murray's tenure. Though i dont believe it would be correct to strip the titles back that far.

    What has always angered me most is the introduction of Murray into Scottish football signaled the 'boom and bust' that followed.
    The braggadocios claim that 'for every 5 celtc spent, he'd spend 10. The reckless spending (12 million on T A Flo - still gives me a chuckle) and the running up of debts on the 'never never'. Would be the thing that put the whole of Scottish football in peril.
    Oldco going bust was the pimple popping but the pus had been building up for years and had infected all around it.
    Of course all individual club are responsible for their own decisions but the reality is that oldco's scattercash approach pretty much forced the hands of all the other clubs into overspending (in their own smaller pro-rata scales) and living outwith their means. This led several clubs to the brink, including our own.
    I think it is particularly pertinent to us. We saw our 'golden generation' sold to furnish our debts and keep the wolf from the door. At a time when we could have been challenging a much weaker oldco who should have been less financially able to entice our players away.
    They didnt just rob titles...they stole our potential too. That's what really grates.

    As far as i'm concerned there is no question that the gung-ho financial abandonment shown by oldco over the last 25 years of their history was what ultimately led to the serious malaise that engulfed the whole of Scottish football.
    The unfair sporting advantage gained during the EBT years is without question. The fact that it was illegal means that there is a rock solid case for those titles to be removed.
    If there is any justice that comes from all this then, despite the noisy protestations (see what i did there ), made by the followers of the tribute act, the posthumous record of their parent club should rightly be partially diminished and a further part tainted and recalled by them in hushed tones.
    Last edited by sadtom; 13-09-2017 at 01:17 AM.

  30. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by sadtom View Post
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    No. That is not the point i'm trying to make.
    That was merely to show that the authorities and their acolytes in the press could have shot down the myth that derhun were 'punished' every time the 'demoted' nonsense was spouted. They chose not to. This allowed the 'demoted' myth to gain currency, to be constantly repeated until such time it became the common byline to accompany newco's participation in the bottom tier. This was one of the main factors in derhun creating a 'victim' complex around their second coming. It allowed them to view themselves as 'persecuted' to justify their misplaced, beetroot faced (blue nosed) rage against everyone who stood up to them. When in fact their crimson complexion, should have been attributed to feelings of shame and embarrassment for cheating their way to success and robbing every paying punter in Scottish football.
    That one simple option, 'to refute the 'demoted tag' (that seemed to accompany any comment on the subject, in the msm in particular) from the outset was not taken up.
    The truth is they actually joined in with the fallacy that oldco were demoted. This ultimately contributed to derhun being able to establish a self justified, victim, seige mentality, that saw them spit venom and lash out threats of retribution, boycotts and revenge with impunity. This came from every random hunmonkey who had a mic shoved in their face, right up to king-of-derhun, Wattie Smith.
    Instead of showing contrition and regret, while offering apology and begging for forgiveness, after receiving assistance NOT punishment from the Scottish football community.
    They instead reverted to type and felt (self)justified in presenting the epitome of the cartoon hun. Pompous, swaggering, self-righteous, defiant, angry-faced wee bigots. With a hugely over inflated opinion of their place in the world never mind Scottish football.

    Why did those individuals in positions of power within Scottish football not chose to quash the myth of 'demotion and punishment'?
    I would guess there are several reasons.
    As i suggested earlier. I reckon they were probably sh*t-scared for their own safety. Lets face it, derhun have plenty previous when it comes to intimidation and violence.
    They were most likely being 'leant on' by people in positions of power in Scottish/British society, both inside and outside the footballing world.
    I think they overestimated the financial importance of oldco to Scottish football. It certainly became obvious that the game could survive and even flourish without the odious stench of their boorish bigotry.
    It dont think it can be discounted that their may also have been more corrupt or sinister reasons during the whole 5 year process, from possible financial impropriety, to mutually beneficial arrangements.
    I think its more than likely that accusations of mismanagement and incompetence have validity.

    Whatever the case. This is why i want a full independent, investigation of the whole sorry, shambolic affair.
    To hold the officials and the organisations to account. If they have nothing to hide then i would think they would welcome the opportunity to clear themselves and remove the dark cloud that hangs over the game.

    And yes, i absolutely believe that the titles from the EBT years should be removed from the dead club's record. You dont reward theft by allowing the thief to retain their ill-gotten gains.
    If it takes an independent revue to establish this then so-be-it.

    For the record i believe oldco's 'crimes' date well before the EBT years. Back to the mid/late 80's and the beginning of Murray's tenure. Though i dont believe it would be correct to strip the titles back that far.

    What has always angered me most is the introduction of Murray into Scottish football signaled the 'boom and bust' that followed.
    The braggadocios claim that 'for every 5 celtc spent, he'd spend 10. The reckless spending (12 million on T A Flo - still gives me a chuckle) and the running up of debts on the 'never never'. Would be the thing that put the whole of Scottish football in peril.
    Oldco going bust was the pimple popping but the pus had been building up for years and had infected all around it.
    Of course all individual club are responsible for their own decisions but the reality is that oldco's scattercash approach pretty much forced the hands of all the other clubs into overspending (in their own smaller pro-rata scales) and living outwith their means. This led several clubs to the brink, including our own.
    I think it is particularly pertinent to us. We saw our 'golden generation' sold to furnish our debts and keep the wolf from the door. At a time when we could have been challenging a much weaker oldco who should have been less financially able to entice our players away.
    They didnt just rob titles...they stole our potential too. That's what really grates.

    As far as i'm concerned there is no question that the gung-ho financial abandonment shown by oldco over the last 25 years of their history was what ultimately led to the serious malaise that engulfed the whole of Scottish football.
    The unfair sporting advantage gained during the EBT years is without question. The fact that it was illegal means that there is a rock solid case for those titles to be removed.
    If there is any justice that comes from all this then, despite the noisy protestations (see what i did there ), made by the followers of the tribute act, the posthumous record of their parent club should rightly be partially diminished and a further part tainted and recalled by them in hushed tones.
    Agree wholeheartedly, well said!!

  31. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Skol View Post
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    Doesnt mean he told anyone at the SFA. In fact if he knew it was dodgy or illegal, why would you ? Means CO is corrupt but not the SFA
    You have to be at the wind up or are just a breathtaking simpleton.

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