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    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    Borders roads are quiet enough that there's no real need to have closed roads for cycling on, and the sportives there that are on open roads are much cheaper to enter (20-25 against 60-70). On balance I'm with the elderly blokes, though they should have used bread sticks rather than drain rods.

    Free link (without any Latin in the report): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-borders-road/

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    @hibs.net private member Sergio sledge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Borders roads are quiet enough that there's no real need to have closed roads for cycling on, and the sportives there that are on open roads are much cheaper to enter (20-25 against 60-70). On balance I'm with the elderly blokes, though they should have used bread sticks rather than drain rods.

    Free link (without any Latin in the report): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-borders-road/
    If you've got 2,000 cyclists you can't have that on open roads. Smaller sportives, yes, but not an event with 2,000 people.

    I understand the farmers issues, sometimes harvest can be a stressful time trying to find a window in the weather and if you have to do certain things on a certain day then it just has to be done. Maybe the event organisers should think about running it another weekend when it isn't such a busy time for farmers?

    However the way they protested it is not on and potentially very dangerous, I'm sure the police will be knocking on their doors pretty soon for a chat.

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    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Borders roads are quiet enough that there's no real need to have closed roads for cycling on, and the sportives there that are on open roads are much cheaper to enter (20-25 against 60-70). On balance I'm with the elderly blokes, though they should have used bread sticks rather than drain rods.

    Free link (without any Latin in the report): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-borders-road/
    I'm doing the Glasgow-Edinburgh ride on Sunday.

    Bread sticks (and bananas) would be most welcome, thanks.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio sledge View Post
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    If you've got 2,000 cyclists you can't have that on open roads. Smaller sportives, yes, but not an event with 2,000 people.
    First Tour of the Borders (2013) was on open roads. It's a while since I did it, but don't think Pedal for Scotland (then 8,000+) was entirely closed (though it may be now).

    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    I'm doing the Glasgow-Edinburgh ride on Sunday.

    Bread sticks (and bananas) would be most welcome, thanks.
    If the 45-ish-miler, it's mostly flat and easy and there's enough feed stations along the way to ensure that you'll end up heavier than you started.

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    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    First Tour of the Borders (2013) was on open roads. It's a while since I did it, but don't think Pedal for Scotland (then 8,000+) was entirely closed (though it may be now).


    If the 45-ish-miler, it's mostly flat and easy and there's enough feed stations along the way to ensure that you'll end up heavier than you started.
    Most of PFS is on closed (country) roads. There's a wee issue with the roads getting out of Glasgow, and through the likes of Cheesetown, where the ride has to stop for traffic sometimes. Imagine if it was in France at harvest time; they'd be out with their slurry-hoses.

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    @hibs.net private member Just Alf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Most of PFS is on closed (country) roads. There's a wee issue with the roads getting out of Glasgow, and through the likes of Cheesetown, where the ride has to stop for traffic sometimes. Imagine if it was in France at harvest time; they'd be out with their slurry-hoses
    .
    Hmmm,....






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    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio sledge View Post
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    If you've got 2,000 cyclists you can't have that on open roads. Smaller sportives, yes, but not an event with 2,000 people.

    I understand the farmers issues, sometimes harvest can be a stressful time trying to find a window in the weather and if you have to do certain things on a certain day then it just has to be done. Maybe the event organisers should think about running it another weekend when it isn't such a busy time for farmers?

    However the way they protested it is not on and potentially very dangerous, I'm sure the police will be knocking on their doors pretty soon for a chat.
    Heaven forbid they may have to consider the disruption their little day of fun has on the rest of the selfish world.

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    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    I'm doing the Glasgow-Edinburgh ride on Sunday.

    Bread sticks (and bananas) would be most welcome, thanks.
    You lot are screwing up me getting to the event I'm going to. Get your own <beep beep> bananas!

  11. #10
    I did the Tour o' the Borders last Sunday but didn't see these two loonies. Everyone at the side of the road that I saw was pretty supportive.

  12. #11
    Gentleman of Leisure Doddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    Heaven forbid they may have to consider the disruption their little day of fun has on the rest of the selfish world.

    My thoughts - the weather has been very mixed and the harvest decides many farmers' income for the year. Sports events are SO very important - everything else has to take second place for them. Closing roads for a cycle race this time of year in a farming area like the Borders is inconsiderate to say the least. I don't like the idea of the old boys going after them with drain rods, but I can understand why they did. I'm sure none of the cyclists would appreciate farmers obstructing THEM going about their daily work.

    There's an annual 'fun run' in my area that causes any amount of disruption to the roads. There's supposed to be proper supervision - non-existent - and cyclists aren't supposed to ride more than two abreast - they ride in large numbers right out to the white line and beyond - and getting anywhere by road that day is a nightmare. I've even seen an ambulance (lights flashing) trying unsuccessfully to get out onto the main road and no one giving way.

    One of my neighbours in the Highlands (where another of these events took place annually) had been in the Commandos during WW2. HE recommended cheese-wire. It worked with the Germans, after all ....

    I think I might have had a wee accident on a blind corner with a muck-spreader.
    Last edited by Doddie; 09-09-2017 at 12:52 PM.


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  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    I'm sure none of the cyclists would appreciate farmers obstructing THEM going about their daily work.
    Yeah, because we never see farmer's tractors holding up rush-hour traffic...

    By the way, Borders Council wouldn't allow the roads to be closed if the cycling event (it wasn't a race) wasn't worth it to the area financially.

  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    Yeah, because we never see farmer's tractors holding up rush-hour traffic...

    By the way, Borders Council wouldn't allow the roads to be closed if the cycling event (it wasn't a race) wasn't worth it to the area financially.
    I've yet to feel any financial gain from major sporting events in my county. I look forward to my eventual windfall with much joy.

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    I've yet to feel any financial gain from major sporting events in my county. I look forward to my eventual windfall with much joy.
    I'm the same with the Edinburgh Festival. My share must have got lost in the post.

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    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    I did the Tour o' the Borders last Sunday but didn't see these two loonies. Everyone at the side of the road that I saw was pretty supportive.
    Hijack alert.

    How long is it and how difficult?

    Asking for a friend.....

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Hijack alert.

    How long is it and how difficult?

    Asking for a friend.....
    Tell your pal that it was around 5 hours for a 'normal'! It was brutal, especially the Wall of Talla. Way tougher than the Etape Caledonia, if that helps.

  18. #17
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    Tell your pal that it was around 5 hours for a 'normal'! It was brutal, especially the Wall of Talla. Way tougher than the Etape Caledonia, if that helps.
    He says "**** that".....I mean "thank you".

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

  19. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Hijack alert.

    How long is it and how difficult?

    Asking for a friend.....

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
    It's a bit longer than Pedal for Scotland, and a good bit hillier. Talla is a complete beast of a climb but you won't get disqualified for dismounting and walking up some or most of it.

    Once you've done a sportive in the Borders (Tour of the Borders or Tour of Tweeddale, which is much the same route but 40-50 cheaper; or the Skinny Tweed which is the shortest and has most official cake stops per mile of the three) you'll likely never go back to Pedal for Scotland.

    Cycling in the Borders will take your breath away, literally (at first) and otherwise (always)!

  20. #19
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    It's a bit longer than Pedal for Scotland, and a good bit hillier. Talla is a complete beast of a climb but you won't get disqualified for dismounting and walking up some or most of it.

    Once you've done a sportive in the Borders (Tour of the Borders or Tour of Tweeddale, which is much the same route but 40-50 cheaper; or the Skinny Tweed which is the shortest and has most official cake stops per mile of the three) you'll likely never go back to Pedal for Scotland.

    Cycling in the Borders will take your breath away, literally (at first) and otherwise (always)!
    Cheers for that.

    The Skinny seems like my next target. I was buzzing after last year's PFS, which is the longest I'd ever ridden. I didn't find it easy, but easier than I'd expected.

    And, after watching Contador this afternoon.........

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  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...race-1-4556917

    Police are looking for someone who goes under the street-name Snooky.....


  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Cycling in the Borders will take your breath away, literally (at first) and otherwise (always)!
    Agreed. The reservoir/valley right before Talla was stunning.

  23. #22
    Gentleman of Leisure Doddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    Yeah, because we never see farmer's tractors holding up rush-hour traffic...

    By the way, Borders Council wouldn't allow the roads to be closed if the cycling event (it wasn't a race) wasn't worth it to the area financially.

    Beefster, what do you mean by "worth it to the area"? If you mean "people living within the area", who specifically are they? In this case, certainly not the farmers. And the Borders economy is largely an agricultural economy, surely?

    And btw - farmer's tractors are subject to the same laws as the rest of the traffic, and mostly they're at work, or going to or from work - in other words, they have to be where they are at any given time. I can't recollect any of my farmer friends deciding to take the John Deere and a 10-ton cattle float out for a joyride on a Sunday afternoon.

    The people who are benefitting from this event clearly aren't the farmers trying to get their work done - bring in their harvest or move their livestock at a very busy time of the year when the weather tends to be unsettled and pressure is mounting. Loss of a field of grain can mean the difference between a decent year and a disaster in farming.

    So maybe this cycling event benefits cyclists? Local dignitaries who get their photos in the papers? Vendors of high-energy drinks and protein bars? On-line suppliers of fluorescent skin-tight apparel? Chemists selling haemorrhoid cream? It's a farming area. How does one benefit the area but not the people who work there?

    There's an event that takes place every year (on a Sunday when no one ever goes anywhere, of course) around the Caldercruix-Slamannan area. Every year it causes great inconvenience to the locals. There are supposed to be marshals to ensure the obstruction's kept to a minimum - I never saw any. The cyclists are supposed to obey the normal rule of the road - most of them don't seem to know the rule of the road, and the others show no sign of paying any heed to it at all.

    What the event does is it feeds a hostility that exists in many people's minds against cyclists. The impression given is of a large number of people taking over the roads without the slightest concern for anyone else's convenience or needs. I've seen an ambulance with it's flashing lights on trying to get out of a side road and being totally ignored by these people. Personally, when I'm in the car in traffic and I see that, if no one else stops to let them out, I do. Don't you?

    The irony is that there's an off-road track for walkers and cyclists running from Airdrie to Bathgate which could easily be closed to pedestrians for that one Sunday, but cyclists' groups insist on using the A89 and other local roads. I used to use the walkway when I lived in the area to walk my dog. I always had the dog under full control; I kept to one side of the hard surface, and I kept my eyes and ears open for other users. I early lost count of the number of times a cyclist or cyclists would speed past from behind me with no warning given and many of them within two or three inches of my shoulder. Usually with a demand for me to "Get that f*****g dog under control", or to "F*** off, this is a cycle track", which it isn't - not exclusively. Those who gave a timely warning call or rang their bell caused no problem at all, but they were very much the minority.

    Half a dozen mountain-bikers once almost creamed me and my poor dog on a logging track up a hill in Sutherland. I was at walking speed, and my dog was with me and under control. They were travelling at high speed and not looking where they were going. I mentioned this later to my Church Officer, a local man of very good character who had served in Special Services during WW2. (He invaded Northern France about 2 years before the rest of the Allied Armies and made himself a total pain in the backside to the Wehrmacht, actually.) His remedy for the problem? Cheese-wire. It worked for the Germans, he said, in the War.

    Now I'm basically a peaceable guy; I have friends who are keen cyclists, and I don't cut cyclists up when I'm driving. I give them space and slow down when passing them. I really do try to be tolerant and co-operative.

    But there are times, just now and then, when I find myself wondering whether my old friend wasn't right after all.
    Last edited by Doddie; 12-09-2017 at 02:58 PM.


    "Once one accepts that one has bear-hugged full-blown barking there is great comfort in the bright lights and noises of the wibble-wibble show ..."

  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.co...race-1-4556917

    Police are looking for someone who goes under the street-name Snooky.....

    On yer bike. I take that as a personal at-tack.

    Besides, I'm more a "dig-a-6-foot-trench" man

  25. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    Beefster, what do you mean by "worth it to the area"?
    The council has to okay the event and the road closures. Presumably they don't do that for free.

    As I said before, the Festival is a massive pain in the nuts for a lot of folk who live or work in Edinburgh. Most are sensible enough to realise that bringing money into the area and promoting tourism is important to the well-being of an area though.
    Last edited by Beefster; 12-09-2017 at 05:50 PM.

  26. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    Beefster, what do you mean by "worth it to the area"? If you mean "people living within the area", who specifically are they? In this case, certainly not the farmers. And the Borders economy is largely an agricultural economy, surely?
    Don't have the relevant figures* (sorry) but big sportives like Tour o the Borders and Etape Caledonia attract folk from far enough way to need to stay overnight. Shirley tourism is a reasonably substantial part of the Borders economy?

    * For whole of Scotland, "106m" here: http://mediacentre.visitscotland.org...lution-2098699
    and "345m" here: https://www.sustrans.org.uk/news/new...ottish-economy

  27. #26
    Gentleman of Leisure Doddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Don't have the relevant figures* (sorry) but big sportives like Tour o the Borders and Etape Caledonia attract folk from far enough way to need to stay overnight. Shirley tourism is a reasonably substantial part of the Borders economy?

    * For whole of Scotland, "106m" here: http://mediacentre.visitscotland.org...lution-2098699
    and "345m" here: https://www.sustrans.org.uk/news/new...ottish-economy

    Those links refer to visitors touring the country by cycle - not 'events' requiring the closure of roads to accommodate lots of cyclists all going the same way at the same time. I lived in the Highlands for 15 years - I'm well aware of the growth in the number of tourists travelling round Scotland on bikes. They don't demand the exclusive use of the roads all to themselves.

    Properly organised, charity 'fun' days and - what would you call them - rallies? - shouldn't be a major problem either. The problem is that the ones we're talking about here aren't properly organised and cause major disruption and aggravation to the people actually living in the areas concerned.

    I would seriously doubt that there can be any economic advantages accruing from the 'fun run' I'm talking about taking place annually through the Caldercruix area - it's just an 8-hour pain in the backside for the locals.


    "Once one accepts that one has bear-hugged full-blown barking there is great comfort in the bright lights and noises of the wibble-wibble show ..."

  28. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    Those links refer to visitors touring the country by cycle - not 'events' requiring the closure of roads to accommodate lots of cyclists all going the same way at the same time. I lived in the Highlands for 15 years - I'm well aware of the growth in the number of tourists travelling round Scotland on bikes. They don't demand the exclusive use of the roads all to themselves.

    Properly organised, charity 'fun' days and - what would you call them - rallies? - shouldn't be a major problem either. The problem is that the ones we're talking about here aren't properly organised and cause major disruption and aggravation to the people actually living in the areas concerned.

    I would seriously doubt that there can be any economic advantages accruing from the 'fun run' I'm talking about taking place annually through the Caldercruix area - it's just an 8-hour pain in the backside for the locals.
    I don't think roads should be closed for cycle rides at all, so no argument from me there.

    I do generally spend money in Peebles when I do a sportive from there.

    What's the event you refer to - is it this?

    As for cyclists riding too close to you on cycle paths, got to side with the cyclists there. It's great fun to 'buzz' old folks like yourself. I often unclip and kick their walking sticks away from them too. Conversely, when I'm out walking myself and a nearby cyclist is dressed offensively garishly, I hit him with my stick.

  29. #28
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    Don't have the relevant figures* (sorry) but big sportives like Tour o the Borders and Etape Caledonia attract folk from far enough way to need to stay overnight. Shirley tourism is a reasonably substantial part of the Borders economy?

    * For whole of Scotland, "106m" here: http://mediacentre.visitscotland.org...lution-2098699
    and "345m" here: https://www.sustrans.org.uk/news/new...ottish-economy
    I haven't had anybody stay at my house so no economic benefit received by me - ever.
    Plenty disruption though.

  30. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    I haven't had anybody stay at my house so no economic benefit received by me - ever.
    Plenty disruption though.
    It sounds like your marketing needs a bit more zip. I generally look on Booking.com so maybe something to consider. If you offer a free cooked breakfast, I'm confident that you'll get a guest one year.

  31. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    I haven't had anybody stay at my house so no economic benefit received by me - ever.
    Plenty disruption though.
    Many (though not all - some are too concerned about the extra weight) cyclists carry some cash with them when they go on long rides. If personal economic benefit is your main concern then why not mug a couple not too far into the course, before they've had a chance to spend it on a coffee stop?

    In this light, what you call 'disruption' may be viewed as 'a steady stream of opportunities for personal gain'.

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