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  1. #31
    Testimonial Due Future17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steakbake View Post
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    An interesting first post!


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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Rationality is also dependant on people's personal moral compass.
    Not a dig at you, ive noticed a few mentions in this thread, but when the **** did 'moral compass' become normal languahe to use?? What happened to just morals?

    Yeah of course, hence my context caveat.

  4. #33
    Testimonial Due Nameless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Rationality is also dependant on people's personal moral compass.
    That's a fair point.

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  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I disagree a bit - i think context dependant ( a huge caveat admittedly) it can be the rational thing to do, in a 'rational self interest kind' of way
    I think I'm justifying it by Western "standards", so your right. To a desert tribesman, killing someone who is trying to steal your camel would be rational, so in that context killing someone could be a rational decision.

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  6. #35
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Not a dig at you, ive noticed a few mentions in this thread, but when the **** did 'moral compass' become normal languahe to use?? What happened to just morals?

    Yeah of course, hence my context caveat.
    Moral compass is better descriptive of the many different morals and moral standards witnessed amongst humans. We share many but race, religion, upbringing and origins all play a role in what direction someone's compass points. There's no one set of morals that are correct.

    Some people eat goats, some **** goats and others covet their neighbour's goat, all perfectly acceptable in some circles.

  7. #36
    Gentleman of Leisure Doddie's Avatar
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    I firmly believe that given the 'right' (i.e. the 'wrong') circumstances, everyone has at least one killing in him or her.

    All we need is the incentive and a way of justifying it to ourselves. It helps if we have accomplices, too. Then it's not 'just us' taking the law into our own hands - we have social reinforcement. Rage helps, too. Rage makes it easier to justify at the actual moment.

    And I would say that in most cases, once we've 'broken our duck', so to speak, the second time would be a lot easier.


    "Once one accepts that one has bear-hugged full-blown barking there is great comfort in the bright lights and noises of the wibble-wibble show ..."

  8. #37
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    I firmly believe that given the 'right' (i.e. the 'wrong') circumstances, everyone has at least one killing in him or her.

    All we need is the incentive and a way of justifying it to ourselves. It helps if we have accomplices, too. Then it's not 'just us' taking the law into our own hands - we have social reinforcement. Rage helps, too. Rage makes it easier to justify at the actual moment.

    And I would say that in most cases, once we've 'broken our duck', so to speak, the second time would be a lot easier.
    People can be conditioned to kill and by that I don't just mean intentionally like a soldier but also by their environment.

  9. #38
    Gentleman of Leisure Doddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    People can be conditioned to kill and by that I don't just mean intentionally like a soldier but also by their environment.

    The Stanford Experiment of August 1971 proved quite decisively that ordinary people could very easily be induced to abuse, torment and torture others who up till a short time previously had been unknown to them.

    I believe only one person, a woman, objected to what was going on; everyone else was drawn into increasingly enthusiastic co-operation. Christopher Browning's book "Ordinary Men" showed how very easily ordinary military policemen were persuaded to engage fully in all the activities of the Final Solution, right up to outright brutality and mass murder.

    But we don't require peer-pressure or military discipline to kill. Castaway sailors have regularly resorted to killing and eating shipmates when drifting lost at sea in a lifeboat. It was called "the custom of the sea" and it was only brought to court in the UK in the latter years of the 19th century - and although the accused (three men who had eaten their cabin boy) were found guilty and condemned to death, the sentence was commuted to life imprisonment before they were quietly released (maybe with a warning not to do it again?).

    I don't think one needs to be deprived, or badly brought up, or abused in childhood, to kill. Look at the case of Loeb and Leopold in 1924 - Clarence Darrow's finest hour, you might say.

    Push me far enough, or place me in a position where I feel threatened and angry and where I have no reasonable recourse to sorting things out legally or peaceably, and I would be more than capable of killing. Threaten one of my loved ones, threaten me, stand between me and something I really need and desire (even if only in my own twisted mind) and I could very easily kill. I perhaps should say 'would' very easily kill.

    And if I got away with it once, I suspect I could very easily acquire the taste for blood ...
    Last edited by Doddie; 05-09-2017 at 07:59 PM.


    "Once one accepts that one has bear-hugged full-blown barking there is great comfort in the bright lights and noises of the wibble-wibble show ..."

  10. #39
    @hibs.net private member cammy1969's Avatar
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    An ex girlfriend told me years ago that she was molested as a child, and it went hru my mind a lot of her pain scared she must have been. It played on my mind a lot at the time I believe I could have killed him no problem whether I could have went thru with it I don't know but I truly believe i could have carried on without remorse for him


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  11. #40
    Gentleman of Leisure Doddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cammy1969 View Post
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    An ex girlfriend told me years ago that she was molested as a child, and it went hru my mind a lot of her pain scared she must have been. It played on my mind a lot at the time I believe I could have killed him no problem whether I could have went thru with it I don't know but I truly believe i could have carried on without remorse for him


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    Yup. Totally identify with this. I might have given you an alibi ...


    "Once one accepts that one has bear-hugged full-blown barking there is great comfort in the bright lights and noises of the wibble-wibble show ..."

  12. #41
    Coaching Staff Betty Boop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    The Stanford Experiment of August 1971 proved quite decisively that ordinary people could very easily be induced to abuse, torment and torture others who up till a short time previously had been unknown to them.

    I believe only one person, a woman, objected to what was going on; everyone else was drawn into increasingly enthusiastic co-operation. Christopher Browning's book "Ordinary Men" showed how very easily ordinary military policemen were persuaded to engage fully in all the activities of the Final Solution, right up to outright brutality and mass murder.

    But we don't require peer-pressure or military discipline to kill. Castaway sailors have regularly resorted to killing and eating shipmates when drifting lost at sea in a lifeboat. It was called "the custom of the sea" and it was only brought to court in the UK in the latter years of the 19th century - and although the accused (three men who had eaten their cabin boy) were found guilty and condemned to death, the sentence was commuted to life imprisonment before they were quietly released (maybe with a warning not to do it again?).

    I don't think one needs to be deprived, or badly brought up, or abused in childhood, to kill. Look at the case of Loeb and Leopold in 1924 - Clarence Darrow's finest hour, you might say.

    Push me far enough, or place me in a position where I feel threatened and angry and where I have no reasonable recourse to sorting things out legally or peaceably, and I would be more than capable of killing. Threaten one of my loved ones, threaten me, stand between me and something I really need and desire (even if only in my own twisted mind) and I could very easily kill. I perhaps should say 'would' very easily kill.

    And if I got away with it once, I suspect I could very easily acquire the taste for blood ...
    Are you not a man of the Church now then ?

  13. #42
    Put one of those evil b******, (e.g. one whose sole purpose in life is now to kill as many innocent members of the public as possible, or a monster capable of things I don't want to type) in front of me, and assure me I'll not get in any bother.

    Then yes, absolutely.

  14. #43
    @hibs.net private member Pete's Avatar
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    Could I murder someone?

    I suppose it depends how horny I get.

  15. #44
    Gentleman of Leisure Doddie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betty Boop View Post
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    Are you not a man of the Church now then ?

    I'm a man, and capable of anything a man is capable of. Including murder.

    I haven't killed anyone - yet. But I've been angry enough at times to do so.


    "Once one accepts that one has bear-hugged full-blown barking there is great comfort in the bright lights and noises of the wibble-wibble show ..."

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