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  1. #1
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    How can the Govt treat people like this?

    It's so unnecessary and cruel.

    Man born and raised in UK told he is not a British citizen

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard


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  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    It's so unnecessary and cruel.

    Man born and raised in UK told he is not a British citizen

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard
    The Law is/was/and forever will be, a complete ass.
    Tell him to sail out a mile or so in a dingy, turn back and land on a beach somewhere. Problem solved.

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    It's so unnecessary and cruel.

    Man born and raised in UK told he is not a British citizen

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...y_to_clipboard
    Now that the alarm has been raised by the media, it will get sorted right away, as is usually the case. However, they'll be thousands of people who don't get picked up by the media who will be shipped off "back" to a country that they never came from in the first place.

  5. #4
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    Now that the alarm has been raised by the media, it will get sorted right away, as is usually the case. However, they'll be thousands of people who don't get picked up by the media who will be shipped off "back" to a country that they never came from in the first place.
    Wrong country or skin colour.

  6. #5
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    Now that the alarm has been raised by the media, it will get sorted right away, as is usually the case. However, they'll be thousands of people who don't get picked up by the media who will be shipped off "back" to a country that they never came from in the first place.
    Thousands? People born in the UK shipped off?

    Are you serious?
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  7. #6
    Everydays a school day eh? And here was me thinking if you were born in the UK you were automatically a UK citizen.

    BTW, his mum's been about it. Kids to 3 different fathers.... :

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Thousands? People born in the UK shipped off?

    Are you serious?
    Yeah. Get them back to Hyperbole whence they came.

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  9. #8
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    It's a strange old story...

    Not least because he doesn't even have seemed to question why he didn't get a UK passport approved.

    And there is no response from the Home Office for them to explain the situation

    Or any confirmation when the law that effects him was made, should his parents have done something that they didn't?

    Reads more like a Sun story in that way rather than a serious piece of news...that said the poor lad must be a bit shocked and stunned!

  10. #9
    When hibs went up to lift the Scottish cup, I was there!
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    something doesn't add up there. He is declined for a british passport but just goes "never mind i'll just get an Australian one instead" yet is shocked to be told a year later that he "technically" isn't a british citizen.

    What person gets declined for a passport by the country they were born and raised in and doesn't question why and if he knew to apply for the Australian one then he surely knew that his nationality/citizenship wasn't strictly British.




    #persevered

  11. #10
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    You are born, grow up, are educated and then pay taxes in a country yet you are denied citizenship of that country. I guess I would look at obtaining citizenship of my mother's country too.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  12. #11
    Testimonial Due Future17's Avatar
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    Sounds like a mistake. If his mother was a British citizen when he was born, he can become one too.

  13. #12
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    Sounds to me that an essential part of this story has been ignored or left out for whatever reason. The initial refusal of the British passport application was instrumental in highlighting the issue. Press use half a story to create headline as usual.

  14. #13
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    My son too was refused British Citizenship. To be honest with hindsight I'm relieved otherwise I'd now be looking to get him German citizenship, so they've inadvertently saved me the hassle.

  15. #14
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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  16. #15
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    I read in another article where the guy said something along the lines of "I was born here and vote and pay my taxes unlike other immigrants who just play the system". He sounded like a UKIP supporter, now wouldn't that be ironic?

  17. #16
    Coaching Staff steakbake's Avatar
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    Citizenship isn't by birth in the UK and hasn't been since 1983.

    In most cases, it comes down to the parents' status at the time of birth and the location of birth. When this guy was born, the requirement was that the parents had to be married for British citizenship to pass from father to son. His Mum was an Australian citizen.

    According to the rules, it's right but the rules should apply equally to people whether they're "born and bred" white Lancastrians or not.

    But then I think the interesting thing in this situation is that the surprise element in the story that's caught the public attention is that you wouldn't expect a white Lancastrian to have an issue there.

    An eye-opener is to google the name "Cynsha Best". See how many newspapers latched on to her story. Then to google "Shane Ridge".

    On the idea he should just float out to sea, land on a beach and he'll somehow be handed a British passport - probably deserves a longer reply. But it is, of course, simplistic as you'd expect. There'd be a Dublin Convention consideration, then an asylum process (more than 60% of which are turned down at the first stage), an outcome, possibly an appeal, then at least five years of being in refugee status, possibly then longer to indefinite leave to remain. Then a 12 month wait on ILR, an English Language exam and a Life in the UK test, then a naturalisation application and, if you get through all of that a citizenship ceremony and eventually a passport.

    Besides, if he just swam out to sea and got washed up, he's probably not someone fleeing persecution or an imminent threat to his life, so he'd probably have his asylum claim turned down. Too bad, eh?
    Last edited by steakbake; 31-08-2017 at 05:25 PM.

  18. #17
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Great post Steaky. 👍
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  19. #18
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steakbake View Post
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    Citizenship isn't by birth in the UK and hasn't been since 1983.

    In most cases, it comes down to the parents' status at the time of birth and the location of birth. When this guy was born, the requirement was that the parents had to be married for British citizenship to pass from father to son. His Mum was an Australian citizen.

    According to the rules, it's right but the rules should apply equally to people whether they're "born and bred" white Lancastrians or not.

    But then I think the interesting thing in this situation is that the surprise element in the story that's caught the public attention is that you wouldn't expect a white Lancastrian to have an issue there.

    An eye-opener is to google the name "Cynsha Best". See how many newspapers latched on to her story. Then to google "Shane Ridge".

    On the idea he should just float out to sea, land on a beach and he'll somehow be handed a British passport - probably deserves a longer reply. But it is, of course, simplistic as you'd expect. There'd be a Dublin Convention consideration, then an asylum process (more than 60% of which are turned down at the first stage), an outcome, possibly an appeal, then at least five years of being in refugee status, possibly then longer to indefinite leave to remain. Then a 12 month wait on ILR, an English Language exam and a Life in the UK test, then a naturalisation application and, if you get through all of that a citizenship ceremony and eventually a passport.

    Besides, if he just swam out to sea and got washed up, he's probably not someone fleeing persecution or an imminent threat to his life, so he'd probably have his asylum claim turned down. Too bad, eh?
    In this case, I would feel I was being persecuted if I was him.

  20. #19
    Coaching Staff steakbake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    In this case, I would feel I was being persecuted if I was him.
    Why? Who is persecuting him? As daft and as outmoded as those rules were, no one is persecuting him. They're simply applying the rules which in this case, mean he's not eligible for citizenship under the rules that were in place when he was born.

    Far be it from me to stick up for UKVI, but you've a raft of people who moan about the borders not being controlled then get all upset when the rules are applied.
    Last edited by steakbake; 01-09-2017 at 10:06 AM.

  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    It has been confirmed the Home office made a total arse of this.
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  22. #21
    Coaching Staff steakbake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    It has been confirmed the Home office made a total arse of this.
    They've found that his grandmother was born in the UK and so his mother has right of abode in the UK, so applying the rules, both his parents were settled status at the time of his birth.

    Wouldn't say they've necessarily blundered (which they do all the time!), but looks like he has a lifeline.

  23. #22
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steakbake View Post
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    Why? Who is persecuting him? As daft and as outmoded as those rules were, no one is persecuting him. They're simply applying the rules which in this case, mean he's not eligible for citizenship under the rules that were in place when he was born.

    Far be it from me to stick up for UKVI, but you've a raft of people who moan about the borders not being controlled then get all upset when the rules are applied.
    Like all rules, they suddenly become flexible (or not) when it suits the people who enforce them.

  24. #23
    @hibs.net private member Speedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steakbake View Post
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    Citizenship isn't by birth in the UK and hasn't been since 1983.

    In most cases, it comes down to the parents' status at the time of birth and the location of birth. When this guy was born, the requirement was that the parents had to be married for British citizenship to pass from father to son. His Mum was an Australian citizen.

    According to the rules, it's right but the rules should apply equally to people whether they're "born and bred" white Lancastrians or not.

    But then I think the interesting thing in this situation is that the surprise element in the story that's caught the public attention is that you wouldn't expect a white Lancastrian to have an issue there.

    An eye-opener is to google the name "Cynsha Best". See how many newspapers latched on to her story. Then to google "Shane Ridge".

    On the idea he should just float out to sea, land on a beach and he'll somehow be handed a British passport - probably deserves a longer reply. But it is, of course, simplistic as you'd expect. There'd be a Dublin Convention consideration, then an asylum process (more than 60% of which are turned down at the first stage), an outcome, possibly an appeal, then at least five years of being in refugee status, possibly then longer to indefinite leave to remain. Then a 12 month wait on ILR, an English Language exam and a Life in the UK test, then a naturalisation application and, if you get through all of that a citizenship ceremony and eventually a passport.

    Besides, if he just swam out to sea and got washed up, he's probably not someone fleeing persecution or an imminent threat to his life, so he'd probably have his asylum claim turned down. Too bad, eh?
    I see what you are suggesting but I don't think that's relevant.

    Both cases conflict with the spirit of the law and it would be nonsense to do anything other than sort it out so they can both stay in the UK.

  25. #24
    Coaching Staff steakbake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    Like all rules, they suddenly become flexible (or not) when it suits the people who enforce them.
    As in his case, it seems.

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