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  1. #91
    @hibs.net proletariat member Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    Perhaps you are right. But what do you mean by feathering his own nest? If we assume for a moment that the edinburgh property was either his or his partner's before they became an item, what do you think they should have done with it? Are they not allowed to keep it and rent it out?

    And why don't you want him discussing Brexit? Do you think its just a ploy to do down the divine Jeremy? A proportion of people are talking about housing and rent controls, a very much larger number of people are talking about the number one threat facing our country - Brexit.

    Seems to me not talking about Brexit is the dereliction of duty. Now who is it that's trying to face every way on that one?
    Personally, I couldn't care less if it was his partners or he'd won it in a raffle, I'd have them sell it as a house shouldn't be viewed as an investment or a way to make money. Realistically, I know there is a place for private rented accommodation but it's gone far too far and like it or not, what Ian is doing is very much part of the problem. Probably for another thread but I expect our MP's, especially Labour ones, not to make investments like this when we're in the middle of a housing crisis.

    As for the Brexit thing, I'm actually split on what was discussed and how but that wasn't really my point.
    I made a comment in reply to another post who suggested Ian Murray was unhappy by suggesting a cheeky reason why he might be. Call me cynical but I can't help but feel that he (or anyone other one of the ironically named Progress crew) would have brought up Fish farming had it the potential to destabilise the divine Mr Corbyn.
    Here's another wee irony. Maybe if more collective attention had been paid to secondary things like the NHS, employment, housing and rail before 2016, we might not have had the protest vote and therefore wouldn't be having this conversation. 🤔
    Last edited by Pete; 01-10-2017 at 02:41 PM.


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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    Personally, I couldn't care less if it was his partners or he'd won it in a raffle, I'd have them sell it as a house shouldn't be viewed as an investment or a way to make money. Realistically, I know there is a place for private rented accommodation but it's gone far too far and like it or not, what Ian is doing is very much part of the problem. Probably for another thread but I expect our MP's, especially Labour ones, not to make investments like this when we're in the middle of a housing crisis.

    Can't make head nor tail of what you are calling for here. Is your demand that:
    a) Anyone with a spare property should be forced in law to sell it?
    b) Only an MP with spare property should be forced in law to sell it?
    c) An MP should be forced in law to sell it even if he only owns part of it?
    d) We should have some private rented accommodation but only a certain amount which should be decided how?
    e) It's okay for MPs to have these properties provided they bought or inherited them prior to the housing crisis, depending on how you determine what the crisis is and when it started?


    As for the Brexit thing, I'm actually split on what was discussed and how but that wasn't really my point.
    I made a comment in reply to another post who suggested Ian Murray was unhappy by suggesting a cheeky reason why he might be. Call me cynical but I can't help but feel that he (or anyone other one of the ironically named Progress crew) would have brought up Fish farming had it the potential to destabilise the divine Mr Corbyn.
    Here's another wee irony. Maybe if more collective attention had been paid to secondary things like the NHS, employment, housing and rail before 2016, we might not have had the protest vote and therefore wouldn't be having this conversation. 🤔
    So you do or don't think Ian Murray is banging on about Brexit to distract from the fact that he owns a property in London and another in Edinburgh? Call me cynical but I can't help feel that bringing up his 'property portfolio' is just a way of trying to attack him since he's not pro-Corbyn and won't keep quiet about Brexit. Brexit being just the most obvious issue on which Corbyn talks complete pi5h - "jobs first Brexit" my ar5e.

    I think if you want the answer to why we have Brexit you need to go all the way back to the global financial crash of 2008 and the persistent stagnation which has followed (particularly the decline in the real value of wages) to find the source of the angst all across Western democracies. Maybe if Corbyn hadn't lost the last election we'd be either negotiating a more constructive exit or revisiting the whole decision.

  4. #93
    @hibs.net proletariat member Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    Can't make head nor tail of what you are calling for here. Is your demand that:
    a) Anyone with a spare property should be forced in law to sell it?
    b) Only an MP with spare property should be forced in law to sell it?
    c) An MP should be forced in law to sell it even if he only owns part of it?
    d) We should have some private rented accommodation but only a certain amount which should be decided how?
    e) It's okay for MPs to have these properties provided they bought or inherited them prior to the housing crisis, depending on how you determine what the crisis is and when it started?
    What I want to see is safe housing that is affordable for everyone. A mass programme of social and affordable house building would provide that and take the heat out of the housing market, perhaps eliminating the need for restrictions regarding multiple property ownership. Rent controls and the end of tax breaks for buy-to-let landlords would also help.
    If I was in charge of the Labour Party, I would indeed make MP's sell any second homes they had. Like I said, I'm not keen on people making profit from residential property so I'd do it as a matter of principle...show you are committed to a true Socialist agenda or exit stage left.

    You in comrade?


    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    I think if you want the answer to why we have Brexit you need to go all the way back to the global financial crash of 2008 and the persistent stagnation which has followed (particularly the decline in the real value of wages) to find the source of the angst all across Western democracies. Maybe if Corbyn hadn't lost the last election we'd be either negotiating a more constructive exit or revisiting the whole decision.
    Firstly, it's a bit cruel to say that Corbyn "lost" the last election. The gains and momentum picked up were beyond all expectations and showed everyone that the left is indeed electable...after all these years of being told it was impossible too.
    I agree about the financial crash being responsible though. What angers me is the fact that only bland alternatives to austerity were on offer up until fairly recently. If people had realised earlier that socialism was a real alternative then we might indeed not be in this position.
    Better late than never though and no matter what happens regarding Brexit, I'm confident Mr. Corbyn will ensure that the British people will be the winners should he be the next PM
    Last edited by Pete; 01-10-2017 at 09:56 PM.

  5. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    What I want to see is safe housing that is affordable for everyone. A mass programme of social and affordable house building would provide that and take the heat out of the housing market, perhaps eliminating the need for restrictions regarding multiple property ownership. So far so good.

    Rent controls and the end of tax breaks for buy-to-let landlords would also help. Beginning to lose me here, rent controls tend to reduce supply and see landlords selling off into owner occupation - not helpful in terms of labour mobility or student accommodation certainly. Not sure how good the tax breaks really are.

    If I was in charge of the Labour Party, I would indeed make MP's sell any second homes they had. Like I said, I'm not keen on people making profit from residential property so I'd do it as a matter of principle...show you are committed to a true Socialist agenda or exit stage left. How would you propose to 'make' MP's sell second homes? I'm pretty sure that would be against their human rights. Would it be okay for the MP to transfer the ownership of the property to their partner? Or their children? Seems like pretty pointless gesture politics to me.

    You in comrade? Not on this agenda as it stands no.




    Firstly, it's a bit cruel to say that Corbyn "lost" the last election. The gains and momentum picked up were beyond all expectations and showed everyone that the left is indeed electable...after all these years of being told it was impossible too.
    I agree about the financial crash being responsible though. What angers me is the fact that only bland alternatives to austerity were on offer up until fairly recently. If people had realised earlier that socialism was a real alternative then we might indeed not be in this position.
    Better late than never though and no matter what happens regarding Brexit, I'm confident Mr. Corbyn will ensure that the British people will be the winners should he be the next PM
    No, it showed that even against a car crash Tory leader like May and with the worst Tory electoral campaign anyone can recall/ Corbyn was unable to win - 63 seats short in fact. He lost the election, if he hadn't he would be in No 10.

    There's only one way out of this and that is economic growth with the associated upswing in earnings, value of wages, tax receipts, increased public spending and reduced public debt. Quite apart from the question as to whether Corbyn's policies actually stack up in any meaningful way, the single biggest impediment to growth is Brexit.

    Brexit doesn't end austerity it prolongs it - yet Corbyn peddles the fallacy that there's such a thing as a jobs first Brexit. He's basically in the same policy position as the Tories on Brexit.

  6. #95
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    No, it showed that even against a car crash Tory leader like May and with the worst Tory electoral campaign anyone can recall/ Corbyn was unable to win - 63 seats short in fact. He lost the election, if he hadn't he would be in No 10.

    There's only one way out of this and that is economic growth with the associated upswing in earnings, value of wages, tax receipts, increased public spending and reduced public debt. Quite apart from the question as to whether Corbyn's policies actually stack up in any meaningful way, the single biggest impediment to growth is Brexit.

    Brexit doesn't end austerity it prolongs it - yet Corbyn peddles the fallacy that there's such a thing as a jobs first Brexit. He's basically in the same policy position as the Tories on Brexit.
    I often wondered about you and similar posters on here from the old new Labour/Blairrite wing, what had happened to your belief system, how you consoled yourselves in being spectacularly wrong about Labour's future under Corbyn. The answer, in your case, seems to be a spectacular refusal to accept reality. I mean, I don't believe for a minute that you actually believe the tosh you've posted above. It's just a need to argue a position, isn't it? The Tory administration was only a 'car crash' when the Labour campaign and manifesto started to make it so, by systematically beating it on every issue in the campaign. You cant seriously argue that the biggest swing to Labour since 1945 is anything else than a resounding success for Corbyn? Can you?

    The current sustained Labour lead in the UK polls is all the evidence you need of what has happened to Labour and the left over the last twelve months. Or do polls only have relevance when your horse happens to be ahead?

  7. #96
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    On the specific question of "tax-breaks" (a phrase that rips my knitting"), the reliefs available aren't all that attractive to those who pay basic-rate tax. They are even less attractive to higher-rate taxpayers. It's that latter group that I think most people have their gripe with.... those landlords who buy up cheap flats for their BTL portfolio, thus pricing many out of the market.

    Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

  8. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    I often wondered about you and similar posters on here from the old new Labour/Blairrite wing, what had happened to your belief system, how you consoled yourselves in being spectacularly wrong about Labour's future under Corbyn. The answer, in your case, seems to be a spectacular refusal to accept reality. I mean, I don't believe for a minute that you actually believe the tosh you've posted above. It's just a need to argue a position, isn't it? The Tory administration was only a 'car crash' when the Labour campaign and manifesto started to make it so, by systematically beating it on every issue in the campaign. You cant seriously argue that the biggest swing to Labour since 1945 is anything else than a resounding success for Corbyn? Can you?

    The current sustained Labour lead in the UK polls is all the evidence you need of what has happened to Labour and the left over the last twelve months. Or do polls only have relevance when your horse happens to be ahead?

    Oh you've really bought the whole thing haven't you?

    I often wondered about you and similar posters on here from the Corbynite wing, what had happened to your belief system, how you consoled yourselves in being spectacularly wrong about Labour's future under Corbyn. The answer in your case seems to be a spectacular refusal to accept the reality that he fought and lost the election. I mean, I don't believe for a minute that you actually believe the tosh you've posted above. It's just a need to defend the Corbynite position, isn't it?

    I didn't mention the Tory administration, I mentioned May as their Leader and their election campaign. If Labour was the cause of their slump (it wasn't, May's catastrophic performance and the bizarre associated policy developments on eg Death Tax were the cause as you well know) by beating the Tories on every issue in the campaign, why didn't Labour win?

    The biggest swing to Labour since 1945 isn't worth a light when it leaves you 63 seats from winning the election. An election which McDonnell said he and Corbyn would resign over if they lost BTW - when's that happening? And its worth even less in a politics where the other parties are ruthlessly squeezed.

    Your comment on Corbyn's success is the most important however. Corbyn's resounding success was just that - a resounding success for him, because he didn't crash and burn as expected. So yes, he won the election he was fighting, the one to keep himself as Labour leader. Not such a resounding success for the poorest, most vulnerable families who now have to wait another four years for Labour to try again, all because of Corbyn's 'success'.

    Maybe Labour can post copies of its opinion poll success to those people to cheer them up while they wait for an actual election in which governments can be changed. Though polls variously showing a marginal lead or level pegging won't bring a lot of four year comfort either.

    Only the Corbynite left could celebrate an election defeat as victory, claim they want to end austerity by failing to oppose the Brexit that will deepen it and then have the leader show such spinelessness that he won't even allow the subject to be debated and voted on at conference. So much for Jeremy's new open politics eh?

  9. #98
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    .....Only the Corbynite left could celebrate an election defeat as victory, claim they want to end austerity by failing to oppose the Brexit that will deepen it and then have the leader show such spinelessness that he won't even allow the subject to be debated and voted on at conference. So much for Jeremy's new open politics eh?
    Ahem, Ruth Davidson?

  10. #99
    Testimonial Due Glory Lurker's Avatar
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    This is guid!

  11. #100
    @hibs.net proletariat member Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    Oh you've really bought the whole thing haven't you?

    I often wondered about you and similar posters on here from the Corbynite wing, what had happened to your belief system, how you consoled yourselves in being spectacularly wrong about Labour's future under Corbyn. The answer in your case seems to be a spectacular refusal to accept the reality that he fought and lost the election. I mean, I don't believe for a minute that you actually believe the tosh you've posted above. It's just a need to defend the Corbynite position, isn't it?

    I didn't mention the Tory administration, I mentioned May as their Leader and their election campaign. If Labour was the cause of their slump (it wasn't, May's catastrophic performance and the bizarre associated policy developments on eg Death Tax were the cause as you well know) by beating the Tories on every issue in the campaign, why didn't Labour win?

    The biggest swing to Labour since 1945 isn't worth a light when it leaves you 63 seats from winning the election. An election which McDonnell said he and Corbyn would resign over if they lost BTW - when's that happening? And its worth even less in a politics where the other parties are ruthlessly squeezed.

    Your comment on Corbyn's success is the most important however. Corbyn's resounding success was just that - a resounding success for him, because he didn't crash and burn as expected. So yes, he won the election he was fighting, the one to keep himself as Labour leader. Not such a resounding success for the poorest, most vulnerable families who now have to wait another four years for Labour to try again, all because of Corbyn's 'success'.

    Maybe Labour can post copies of its opinion poll success to those people to cheer them up while they wait for an actual election in which governments can be changed. Though polls variously showing a marginal lead or level pegging won't bring a lot of four year comfort either.

    Only the Corbynite left could celebrate an election defeat as victory, claim they want to end austerity by failing to oppose the Brexit that will deepen it and then have the leader show such spinelessness that he won't even allow the subject to be debated and voted on at conference. So much for Jeremy's new open politics eh?
    You could have made that a lot shorter, something like:

    A more right-leaning Labour Party focusing more on Brexit would have done better and won the last election. Corbyn is selfish for thinking his style of politics is electable.

    Personally, I think youíre rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic but there you go. 😉

  12. #101
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    Oh you've really bought the whole thing haven't you?

    I often wondered about you and similar posters on here from the Corbynite wing, what had happened to your belief system, how you consoled yourselves in being spectacularly wrong about Labour's future under Corbyn. The answer in your case seems to be a spectacular refusal to accept the reality that he fought and lost the election. I mean, I don't believe for a minute that you actually believe the tosh you've posted above. It's just a need to defend the Corbynite position, isn't it?

    I didn't mention the Tory administration, I mentioned May as their Leader and their election campaign. If Labour was the cause of their slump (it wasn't, May's catastrophic performance and the bizarre associated policy developments on eg Death Tax were the cause as you well know) by beating the Tories on every issue in the campaign, why didn't Labour win?

    The biggest swing to Labour since 1945 isn't worth a light when it leaves you 63 seats from winning the election. An election which McDonnell said he and Corbyn would resign over if they lost BTW - when's that happening? And its worth even less in a politics where the other parties are ruthlessly squeezed.

    Your comment on Corbyn's success is the most important however. Corbyn's resounding success was just that - a resounding success for him, because he didn't crash and burn as expected. So yes, he won the election he was fighting, the one to keep himself as Labour leader. Not such a resounding success for the poorest, most vulnerable families who now have to wait another four years for Labour to try again, all because of Corbyn's 'success'.

    Maybe Labour can post copies of its opinion poll success to those people to cheer them up while they wait for an actual election in which governments can be changed. Though polls variously showing a marginal lead or level pegging won't bring a lot of four year comfort either.

    Only the Corbynite left could celebrate an election defeat as victory, claim they want to end austerity by failing to oppose the Brexit that will deepen it and then have the leader show such spinelessness that he won't even allow the subject to be debated and voted on at conference. So much for Jeremy's new open politics eh?
    Aye very good. Personally I dont think echoing my verbiage works as a debating technique but i'll let others judge.

    I'm genuinely astonished. Leaving aside the partiality, In a spirit of honesty, ask yourself if in twenty years time when books are written and politics lecturers discuss the 2016 UK General Election, will they describe it as a failure for Corbyn and the left?
    Last edited by hibsbollah; 02-10-2017 at 07:33 PM.

  13. #102
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    A more right-leaning Labour Party focusing more on Brexit would have done better and won the last election.


    I'll tell the jokes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    Ahem, Ruth Davidson?
    A fair point.

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    Coaching Staff One Day Soon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    You could have made that a lot shorter, something like:

    A more right-leaning Labour Party focusing more on Brexit would have done better and won the last election. Corbyn is selfish for thinking his style of politics is electable.

    Personally, I think youíre rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic but there you go. 😉

    Not my Titanic or my deckchairs.

    A less Jeremy leader I think might have won that election, or at least lost it less badly, without any policy changes.

  16. #105
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    Not my Titanic or my deckchairs.

    A less Jeremy leader I think might have won that election, or at least lost it less badly, without any policy changes.
    Like who? Be specific.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    Aye very good. Personally I dont think echoing my verbiage works as a debating technique but i'll let others judge.

    I'm genuinely astonished. Leaving aside the partiality, In a spirit of honesty, ask yourself if in twenty years time when books are written and politics lecturers discuss the 2016 UK General Election, will they describe it as a failure for Corbyn and the left?

    Politics lecturers in twenty years time? I think you're missing my point. It doesn't matter how right or left Labour is, if it doesn't win it is irrelevant. And that's a failure of Corbyn and the left in the last election and right now for the people who desperately need a Labour government. And the effect of losing the election is being compounded by the utter dishonesty over Brexit. It is pretty tragic that there is virtually no substantive policy difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson over Brexit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    Like who? Be specific.
    Thornberry, Starmer, Umuna, Gardiner, Rayner....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glory Lurker View Post
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    This is guid!
    It won't save the Nats GL. Corbyn will be enough to knacker them but not enough to beat the Tories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    Politics lecturers in twenty years time? I think you're missing my point. It doesn't matter how right or left Labour is, if it doesn't win it is irrelevant. And that's a failure of Corbyn and the left in the last election and right now for the people who desperately need a Labour government. And the effect of losing the election is being compounded by the utter dishonesty over Brexit. It is pretty tragic that there is virtually no substantive policy difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson over Brexit.
    Ok. But answer the question?

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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    Thornberry, Starmer, Umuna, Gardiner, Rayner....
    You had me with Rayner, then you had to spoil it with #3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    You had me with Rayner, then you had to spoil it with #3.
    I'm just a lot less tribal than you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    Ok. But answer the question?
    "in twenty years time when books are written and politics lecturers discuss the 2016 UK General Election, will they describe it as a failure for Corbyn and the left?"

    1. Who knows? We're not psychic.
    2. It probably depends on the result of the next election. If he loses that then the preceding election will be seen as a failure. If he wins it, it will be seen as a staging post.
    3. My best guess is nowhere near as catastrophic as 1983 but still a fail.
    4. Why does what politics lecturers think in twenty years time matter? This isn't an academic exercise.

  24. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    I'm just a lot less tribal than you.
    That's a bit rude and judgemental. Im not tribal at all. We were discussing electability, its irrelevant what I think of him personally. I just doubt Umunna has a chance of winning a general election.

  25. #114
    @hibs.net proletariat member Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    It won't save the Nats GL. Corbyn will be enough to knacker them but not enough to beat the Tories.
    Here we were being told that we werenít psychic.

    Consider the fact that more than twice as many voters under the age of 45 think Jeremy Corbynís Labour party is now ďon their sideĒ, compared with those who believe the same about the Conservative party.

    Itís all pointing in one direction.

  26. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    "in twenty years time when books are written and politics lecturers discuss the 2016 UK General Election, will they describe it as a failure for Corbyn and the left?"

    1. Who knows? We're not psychic.
    2. It probably depends on the result of the next election. If he loses that then the preceding election will be seen as a failure. If he wins it, it will be seen as a staging post.
    3. My best guess is nowhere near as catastrophic as 1983 but still a fail.
    4. Why does what politics lecturers think in twenty years time matter? This isn't an academic exercise.
    1. No we're not. But we can surmise. And its pretty obvious achieving a hung parliament, while overturning an apparent 20 point poll deficit in such a short time, will be considered as a spectacularly good result. If a party leader was elected for one electoral cycle only, and his job was to win tout de suite, regardless of the position he inherited, you'd be right. But its not, its a process. So you're wrong.
    2. If he loses the next election, why on earth would that affect how the preceding election would be viewed? His legacy perhaps, but not the election itself.
    3. OK. that's your guess.
    4. Because with a period of contemplation you tend to get less tribalism and partiality, and more objectivity.

  27. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    It won't save the Nats GL. Corbyn will be enough to knacker them but not enough to beat the Tories.
    Stay on topic, man. Isn't this thread supposed to be about Labour knocking lumps out of itself?
    Last edited by Glory Lurker; 02-10-2017 at 08:26 PM. Reason: Grammatical error thanks to being schooled under Labour LRC :-)

  28. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    That's a bit rude and judgemental. Im not tribal at all. We were discussing electability, its irrelevant what I think of him personally. I just doubt Umunna has a chance of winning a general election.
    He's not in the Corbynite tent, but he's certainly electable. Unless the judgment is being made on a partisan political basis.

  29. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    Here we were being told that we werenít psychic.

    Consider the fact that more than twice as many voters under the age of 45 think Jeremy Corbynís Labour party is now ďon their sideĒ, compared with those who believe the same about the Conservative party.

    Itís all pointing in one direction.

    Jolly good. Why didn't that translate into an election win then? Why is he misleading that very group of voters most concerned about Brexit as to its consequences?

  30. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    What I want to see is safe housing that is affordable for everyone. A mass programme of social and affordable house building would provide that and take the heat out of the housing market, perhaps eliminating the need for restrictions regarding multiple property ownership. Rent controls and the end of tax breaks for buy-to-let landlords would also help.
    If I was in charge of the Labour Party, I would indeed make MP's sell any second homes they had. Like I said, I'm not keen on people making profit from residential property so I'd do it as a matter of principle...show you are committed to a true Socialist agenda or exit stage left.

    You in comrade?




    Firstly, it's a bit cruel to say that Corbyn "lost" the last election. The gains and momentum picked up were beyond all expectations and showed everyone that the left is indeed electable...after all these years of being told it was impossible too.
    I agree about the financial crash being responsible though. What angers me is the fact that only bland alternatives to austerity were on offer up until fairly recently. If people had realised earlier that socialism was a real alternative then we might indeed not be in this position.
    Better late than never though and no matter what happens regarding Brexit, I'm confident Mr. Corbyn will ensure that the British people will be the winners should he be the next PM


    A lot to applaud in your first paragraph, I do want to ask though, about your point re. MPs selling second homes.

    How does that work for MPs from outside Greater London? How does an MP from Cardiff or Inverness or Edinburgh etc accommodate your position? Don’t serve their constituents in person much by living in London, or sleep in the cloakroom at Westminster on the very regular days they’re expected to do their job in the House of Commons, but have a bed somewhere else far far away?


    I (if anyone was daft enough to give me any power ) would create/acquire a flat/apartment in London that is assigned to each constituency (that requires one), and is the ‘MP’ home whilst there. The MP keeps their own home in their constituency. The MP is responsible for the decorating, upkeep etc of the apartment, and when they are voted out of office, they hand back the keys to the new incumbent/someone in Westminster tasked to manage these things. Any significant maintainance required (not wanted, required), the MP approaches the expenses controllers to discuss.

  31. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    1. No we're not. But we can surmise. And its pretty obvious achieving a hung parliament, while overturning an apparent 20 point poll deficit in such a short time, will be considered as a spectacularly good result. If a party leader was elected for one electoral cycle only, and his job was to win tout de suite, regardless of the position he inherited, you'd be right. But its not, its a process. So you're wrong.

    A spectacularly good result on whose terms? A well insulated group of academics pontificating with twenty years retrospection or the people left hung out to dry by his failure. "achieving a hung parliament" - Is that what its come to, how low the aspiration is? They said they'd resign if they didn't win. They themselves set the bar for failure pre-election and duly didn't clear it. Their words not mine.

    2. If he loses the next election, why on earth would that affect how the preceding election would be viewed? His legacy perhaps, but not the election itself.

    Because one result that led to a later victory might be regarded as a development stage. One result that led to nothing but more failure is likely to be judged more harshly.

    3. OK. that's your guess.
    4. Because with a period of contemplation you tend to get less tribalism and partiality, and more objectivity.
    Very nice, but it won't build a single home, fix the NHS or sort out our economy. I'm not interested in narrating the past, I'm interested in changing the present.

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