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  1. #121
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    No, I don't think Arsenal are as cavalier - they'll lose too many goals to compete, not through being too cavalier but through being totally inept defensively.

    I agree, it would be great to see Liverpool do it. But will they manage to beat the big, pragmatic teams in the big games? I could see a streetwise Mourinho team just picking them off. Even this early I think it looks like Mourinho has built his favourite kind of 2-0 win machine.

    Even the stuffy, tricky teams like WBA and Stoke might frustrate Liverpool. Do Liverpool have enough to grind out wins when things don't go their way or when they don't play particularly well?

    Liverpool will be the choice of the romantics. But the pragmatists have a better track record of getting over the line.
    Your last paragraph is of course true, but I'm an old romantic and I hope they do it.

    United we stand here....


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  3. #122
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
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    When I was a kid Liverpool were winning everything.

    Man United hadn't won the league in ages and only had the odd cup here or there to show for their efforts. They always had loads of fans and big crowds though, and they were always respected as a big club who just hadn't won much for a while.

    It's a bit like Liverpool now. They haven't won much for a while (although there has been the odd notable European Cup over the past few decades) but they're still a massive brand and a big club with huge appeal. Big players will still want to play for them. They might not be able to offer the ££££££ that City or Chelsea can, but they can still offer players an awful lot.

    And that's before you get into the whole "global football" thing. Liverpool must still be up there with the biggest of them on that front.

    Or am I just an 80s child who is a bit out of touch?
    If you are a top player, then Liverpool won't be on your radar. For most of those who want to come to England, they will want to play for around 5 clubs before them if they get the choice.

    Top players will only come north for the two Manchester clubs if the London clubs don't want them or can't afford them.

  4. #123
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Another thing, for all Chelsea and Man City's money, have they really been that successful? One Champions league between them. City have won two titles, despite throwing hundreds of millions at it. Chelski have won 5 titles in 20 years of big investment, suppose it's decent, but neither of them have dominated in the way that Liverpool did in 70's-80's or Man U in the 90's-2000's.

  5. #124
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfuddyhibby View Post
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    Another thing, for all Chelsea and Man City's money, have they really been that successful? One Champions league between them. City have won two titles, despite throwing hundreds of millions at it. Chelski have won 5 titles in 20 years of big investment, suppose it's decent, but neither of them have dominated in the way that Liverpool did in 70's-80's or Man U in the 90's-2000's.
    You say Man City have thrown hundreds of millions at it, but I'm pretty sure they've turned a pretty large profit in the last few years.

    United we stand here....

  6. #125
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    Your last paragraph is of course true, but I'm an old romantic and I hope they do it.
    Leaving aside the romantic thing (although when Liverpool were winning everything in my childhood they weren't always an attractive side to watch...)the pragmatic argument is with Klopp they have a genuinely world class manager who achieved something with Dortmund.

  7. #126
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    Leaving aside the romantic thing (although when Liverpool were winning everything in my childhood they weren't always an attractive side to watch...)the pragmatic argument is with Klopp they have a genuinely world class manager who achieved something with Dortmund.
    And he can do it again with Liverpool imo. It's not like he's some novice who's winging it. As you say he's been over the course before and he could easily do it again.

    United we stand here....

  8. #127
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    You say Man City have thrown hundreds of millions at it, but I'm pretty sure they've turned a pretty large profit in the last few years.
    Profit doesn't make prizes.

  9. #128
    @hibs.net private member greenlex's Avatar
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    Did Liverpool unearth Danny Wilson?

  10. #129
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfuddyhibby View Post
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    Profit doesn't make prizes.
    I didn't say it did. My point was about Man City throwing money at it. They've undoubtedly spent a lot of money to get where they are, but it looks like money well spent when you're making £30m a year.

    United we stand here....

  11. #130
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenlex View Post
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    Did Liverpool unearth Danny Wilson?
    Danny Wilson hasn't been unearthed, he's in the bowels of the earth.

  12. #131
    @hibs.net private member Lancs Harp's Avatar
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    Blackpool had Danny Wilson on loan when he was at Liverpool. He was bloody awful. Not quite as bad as Andy Halliday was though.

  13. #132
    Testimonial Due pacorosssco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfuddyhibby View Post
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    I would like your posts more if you could be bothered to write in plainEnglish and not some bizarre form of newspeak. Are you a fan of George Orwell or just a lazy barsteward?
    Thank you i doubt ill ever be compared to orwell again:)

  14. #133
    Coaching Staff Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfuddyhibby View Post
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    Another thing, for all Chelsea and Man City's money, have they really been that successful? One Champions league between them. City have won two titles, despite throwing hundreds of millions at it. Chelski have won 5 titles in 20 years of big investment, suppose it's decent, but neither of them have dominated in the way that Liverpool did in 70's-80's or Man U in the 90's-2000's.
    Thats the sort of money it takes to simply compete at the top end and nowadays and while they are certainly doing that, it doesn't guarantee anything.
    The more "traditional" high-end clubs, ones who are crowdfunded by glory hunters, are throwing about similar amounts yet they aren't dominating either. I don't believe that one source of financing is any more acceptable or organic than the other tbh. I'll accept it when these traditional "big" clubs like Liverpool and Manchester United draw their support and funding primarily from the areas they represent. Until that happens again, they're all as fake as each other.

    I can't see anyone dominating again like what happened in the 70's to the early noughties. However, its almost as if the saturation of money has meant the game in England has went full circle as far as competition goes and at least there are now several contenders.

    Feel dirty saying that though.

  15. #134
    Testimonial Due pacorosssco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    Thats the sort of money it takes to simply compete at the top end and nowadays and while they are certainly doing that, it doesn't guarantee anything.
    The more "traditional" high-end clubs, ones who are crowdfunded by glory hunters, are throwing about similar amounts yet they aren't dominating either. I don't believe that one source of financing is any more acceptable or organic than the other tbh. I'll accept it when these traditional "big" clubs like Liverpool and Manchester United draw their support and funding primarily from the areas they represent. Until that happens again, they're all as fake as each other.

    I can't see anyone dominating again like what happened in the 70's to the early noughties. However, its almost as if the saturation of money has meant the game in England has went full circle as far as competition goes and at least there are now several contenders.

    Feel dirty saying that though.
    Dont feel dirty. Top players today are mainly contract focussed and not medals. Its a money game

  16. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    And just to close out, Steven Gerrard was well and truly in the bracket of 'world class' - those putting him down a notch or two because he never had a great international tournament are a little short-sighted. How much international success can you truly say Ronaldo or Messi have had? He had one of the best passing games in the business, knew how to manage his players around him and was one of the better tacklers in the game.
    Well Ronaldo has won the European championships and Messi has made copa America and world cup finals. Gerrard didn't get past the quarter finals of any major tournament.

    But apart from that you're quite correct, Gerrard was definitely world class and it's strange to argue otherwise.

  17. #136
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    I didn't say it did. My point was about Man City throwing money at it. They've undoubtedly spent a lot of money to get where they are, but it looks like money well spent when you're making £30m a year.
    I wasn't aware that City made any profit from their football dealings. Is £30m really the motivation for the investment though?


    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    Thats the sort of money it takes to simply compete at the top end and nowadays and while they are certainly doing that, it doesn't guarantee anything.
    The more "traditional" high-end clubs, ones who are crowdfunded by glory hunters, are throwing about similar amounts yet they aren't dominating either. I don't believe that one source of financing is any more acceptable or organic than the other tbh. I'll accept it when these traditional "big" clubs like Liverpool and Manchester United draw their support and funding primarily from the areas they represent. Until that happens again, they're all as fake as each other.

    I can't see anyone dominating again like what happened in the 70's to the early noughties. However, its almost as if the saturation of money has meant the game in England has went full circle as far as competition goes and at least there are now several contenders.

    Feel dirty saying that though.
    There have always been contenders in the English game. Even at the height of Liverpool's powers Nottingham Forest managed a League title and two European Cups. Ipswich ran Liverpool very close for the tilte (twice), as did QPR earlier in the 70's. Aston Villa and Everton also won League titles in the 80's, as did Derby in the 70's.

    Leicester's win was the exception that proves the rule though. Teams like Forest and Villa won leagues based on brilliant management and wise expenditure. They splashed some cash, but it wasn't done in the excessive frenzy of todays transfer market.

    I don't really understand the crowdfunding point you make though? Are the teams you refer to the likes of Liverpool, Spurs, Man Utd? I don't know the details of how those teams are funded. I suppose Sours and Liverpool are spending a lot of money on developing their grounds, that will curtail investment in players probably. Equally, the massive rise in television coverage helps ensure that folk ( like people in Scotland) form attachments to teams far away from where they stay-that comes with the territory in modern football.

    It is debateable whether there is a hierarchy of morality when it comes to the modern game. Whether the cash is spalshed by dubious Russian oligarchs, oil rich Sheikhs or faceless corporate conglomerates, do most fans care? Possibly not.

  18. #137
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    Thats the sort of money it takes to simply compete at the top end and nowadays and while they are certainly doing that, it doesn't guarantee anything.
    The more "traditional" high-end clubs, ones who are crowdfunded by glory hunters, are throwing about similar amounts yet they aren't dominating either. I don't believe that one source of financing is any more acceptable or organic than the other tbh. I'll accept it when these traditional "big" clubs like Liverpool and Manchester United draw their support and funding primarily from the areas they represent. Until that happens again, they're all as fake as each other.

    I can't see anyone dominating again like what happened in the 70's to the early noughties. However, its almost as if the saturation of money has meant the game in England has went full circle as far as competition goes and at least there are now several contenders.

    Feel dirty saying that though.
    All as fake as each other? I think you're forgetting how clubs like Man U and Liverpool actually formed their world wide fan bases from being so successful when drawing their local support.

  19. #138
    @hibs.net private member Aldo's Avatar
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    Just a young man but far superior player to Moreno!

    Good luck to him

  20. #139
    Coaching Staff Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeping Scouse View Post
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    All as fake as each other? I think you're forgetting how clubs like Man U and Liverpool actually formed their world wide fan bases from being so successful when drawing their local support.
    I know the reasons why they have such big "supports". The clubs were either half decent in the past, they are winning now or they are a bit stylish. There's basically a form of glory to be had.

    All these people who are chasing this glory have collectively skewed things just as much as the Sheiks of this world have. All these Liverpool fans in China and Sweden have just as much to do with Liverpool as Abramovich has to do with London...absolutely nothing.

    I fully expect the "that's ridiculous, people can support who they like" argument to be flung back at me but I suspect it would be different if I were speaking to a Doncaster United fan from Doncaster, or any other fan who primarily supports a club who's low status is at the expense of the bigger boys. ;-)

    I think it's great that City are shaking things up, as I think all the moaning from people who shouldn't really be bothered is hilarious.
    Last edited by Pete; 26-08-2017 at 02:39 PM.

  21. #140
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    I know the reasons why they have such big "supports". The clubs were either half decent in the past, they are winning now or they are a bit stylish. There's basically a form of glory to be had.

    All these people who are chasing this glory have collectively skewed things just as much as the Sheiks of this world have. All these Liverpool fans in China and Sweden have just as much to do with Liverpool as Abramovich has to do with London...absolutely nothing.

    I fully expect the "that's ridiculous, people can support who they like" argument to be flung back at me but I suspect it would be different if I were speaking to a Doncaster United fan from Doncaster, or any other fan who primarily supports a club who's low status is at the expense of the bigger boys.

    I think it's great that City are shaking things up, as I think all the moaning from people who shouldn't really be bothered is hilarious.
    I have no idea how you can associate income on a drip feed from a world wide support to a weathly investor providing a seemingly bottomless pit of money as one and the same thing? There really is no comparison. Liverpool even with their limited success of late still have that fan base however it offers nothing compared to the wealth that City, Chelsea and to a lesser extent other investors like at Liverpool can provide. Those are the facts and are the only reasons City and Chelsea have risen so high.

    I actually have no problem with it to be honest, it's up to Liverpool to try and compete just like it was up to other teams to try and compete with Liverpool when their success was generating the income and enabling them to buy whoever they really wanted. The game has changed and that's how it is, I am also fortunate that I have seen Liverpool win everything there was to win in their glory days. My next project is Hibs, ticked off the League Cup, Scottish Cup just waiting on the league and then Europe.

  22. #141
    Coaching Staff Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeping Scouse View Post
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    I have no idea how you can associate income on a drip feed from a world wide support to a weathly investor providing a seemingly bottomless pit of money as one and the same thing? There really is no comparison. Liverpool even with their limited success of late still have that fan base however it offers nothing compared to the wealth that City, Chelsea and to a lesser extent other investors like at Liverpool can provide. Those are the facts and are the only reasons City and Chelsea have risen so high.

    I actually have no problem with it to be honest, it's up to Liverpool to try and compete just like it was up to other teams to try and compete with Liverpool when their success was generating the income and enabling them to buy whoever they really wanted. The game has changed and that's how it is, I am also fortunate that I have seen Liverpool win everything there was to win in their glory days. My next project is Hibs, ticked off the League Cup, Scottish Cup just waiting on the league and then Europe.
    You'll be waiting a while for the last two I think.

    Unless you know any Sheiks?

  23. #142
    Testimonial Due DTS's Avatar
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    As a Liverpool fan I'd argue that we are still one of the biggest teams in the world however can we attract the best players that are of a world class standing I'm not sure, but no players that are world class are going to the premiership bar a few they're coming young and developing. That being said selling one player to Man City doesn't mean we're a selling club, every team in the world is a selling team when Barca or real come that's the way it is. Will we win the league playing the way we do? No. Will we progress to the later stages of the CL such as quarter finals playing the way we do? No. Will we win more points against the top 6 than bottom 6 this year with or style of play? Yes. We can't defend to save ourselfs and when we play teams that don't attack we struggle funnily enough Liverpool remind me so much of hibs at times

  24. #143
    You go anywhere in the world and everyone knows Liverpool. Man City on the other hand nah dont think so. Even the guy that bought them thought he was buying Man U. Mibbe more investment but bigger never. Im not even a Liverpool fan. Dont care for english fitba.

  25. #144
    A thread on a young Scottish prospect who really is living the dream has descended in to cock measuring over the size of English clubs. Strange.

    I wish Andy all the best. Learning at a club that has a proud history and top training facilities will hopefully mature Andy immediately and improve every season.

    What a left side we'll have if we can get Tierney and Robbo in the same line up

  26. #145
    Coaching Staff Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenNWhiteArmy View Post
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    A thread on a young Scottish prospect who really is living the dream has descended in to cock measuring over the size of English clubs. Strange.


    I know, it's a farce.

  27. #146
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenNWhiteArmy View Post
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    A thread on a young Scottish prospect who really is living the dream has descended in to cock measuring over the size of English clubs. Strange.

    I wish Andy all the best. Learning at a club that has a proud history and top training facilities will hopefully mature Andy immediately and improve every season.

    What a left side we'll have if we can get Tierney and Robbo in the same line up
    Not really. Most threads on here digress and take tangents, that's what I like about Hibs. Net. There is probably only so much most of us can say about Robertson. Probably saw him play live, but mibbies naw. Beyond that, who the **** knows really?

  28. #147
    Coaching Staff jgl07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil MaGlass View Post
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    You go anywhere in the world and everyone knows Liverpool. Man City on the other hand nah dont think so. Even the guy that bought them thought he was buying Man U. Mibbe more investment but bigger never. Im not even a Liverpool fan. Dont care for english fitba.
    Probably because you know ***** all about it? Or anything else judging by your comments. Maybe you shouldn't post whilst pissed?

    When ADUG bought City they considered Liverpool but rejected them because of the state of Anfield at the time. They considered a number of of other teams, including Everton but felt that City were the best option. They weren't wrong as whatever they spent on buying the club and investing in the playing staff and stadium expansion, they have benefited from the increase in value of the club. They got most of their investment back by selling a minority stake to the Chinese last year.

  29. #148
    Testimonial Due pacorosssco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    I know the reasons why they have such big "supports". The clubs were either half decent in the past, they are winning now or they are a bit stylish. There's basically a form of glory to be had.

    All these people who are chasing this glory have collectively skewed things just as much as the Sheiks of this world have. All these Liverpool fans in China and Sweden have just as much to do with Liverpool as Abramovich has to do with London...absolutely nothing.

    I fully expect the "that's ridiculous, people can support who they like" argument to be flung back at me but I suspect it would be different if I were speaking to a Doncaster United fan from Doncaster, or any other fan who primarily supports a club who's low status is at the expense of the bigger boys. ;-)

    I think it's great that City are shaking things up, as I think all the moaning from people who shouldn't really be bothered is hilarious.
    Global support as general support comes from winning. Chelsea City are global teams to rival Liverpool already. Im happy to support local side and wish andy robertson well with establishing himself to gain move to bigger side:)

  30. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleeping Scouse View Post
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    Liverpool are a far bigger club on any stage than Manchester City there is no real comparison. Manchester City lol.
    Other than winning trophies and signing the best payers these days....30 years without a league title isn't really the heritage of a top side....I would say Liverpool in performance terms are now tier 2 in Europe..not denying their brand has a wide appeal, but they are no longer seen as one of the top performing sides in Europe...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  31. #150
    This thread's title really needs changed ...

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