Celtc = The Rangers

[barcahibs]

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I'm willing to bet there are a lot more Hibbies who consider themselves British above all else on this board, in the pubs and at games, than we think and their silence is the real story as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I know one or two.

As for the Hibsbollah stuff, there are similarities but there's a difference between that and what Celtic have done with their sniper imagery. At worst, one is a play on words that gives an indication of an informal groups political leanings while the other is an officially sanctioned attempt at something similar. There's also geographical context...this is the UK, and references to the troubles will cause more offence to more people than the other conflict/ situation. If Hearts and ourselves were involved in a historical Lebanese tit-for-tat and we officially came out with Hibsbollah banter then that would be comparable.

P.s. For the record, I'm still not 100% comfortable with it. No offence to anyone.

If we're talking nationality/patriotism, when i think about it at all (which isnt often), i consider myself British above all other nationalities.

Not above all else though, I'm probably a Hibby before I'm British :)
The point should be that noone should feel uncomfortable bringing any national flag to Easter Road. Because, no katter any other politics/causes we're all Hibbies. Thats why politics has no place in Easter Road.

Be proud of who you are, wave your flag, cheer on the Hibs.

That should be all that matters.

If the weirdoes in Glasgow can't grasp that... Well thats their problem.

And FWIW i dislike celtc more than the zombie huns. Mainly due to the holier than thou attitude of the lesser greens - along with the condescending ideas of us being their cousins the East.

I know a couple of zombie fans that I'd call good guys. The only celtc fan i know well is a total prick. That probably colours my opinion as well mind you.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

The justification I see from celtic fans on twitter is that it's "no different to the Scotland national anthem"

Hmmmm

[heretoday]

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The justification I see from celtic fans on twitter is that it's "no different to the Scotland national anthem"

Hmmmm

They're past masters at giving (and taking) offence, like their neighbours in Govan.

[Pete]

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If we're talking nationality/patriotism, when i think about it at all (which isnt often), i consider myself British above all other nationalities.

Not above all else though, I'm probably a Hibby before I'm British :)
The point should be that noone should feel uncomfortable bringing any national flag to Easter Road. Because, no katter any other politics/causes we're all Hibbies. Thats why politics has no place in Easter Road.

Be proud of who you are, wave your flag, cheer on the Hibs.

That should be all that matters.

If the weirdoes in Glasgow can't grasp that... Well thats their problem.

And FWIW i dislike celtc more than the zombie huns. Mainly due to the holier than thou attitude of the lesser greens - along with the condescending ideas of us being their cousins the East.

I know a couple of zombie fans that I'd call good guys. The only celtc fan i know well is a total prick. That probably colours my opinion as well mind you.

Good post. We should welcome everyone and show them how it's done.

[pacoluna]

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I'm willing to bet there are a lot more Hibbies who consider themselves British above all else on this board, in the pubs and at games, than we think and their silence is the real story as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I know one or two.

As for the Hibsbollah stuff, there are similarities but there's a difference between that and what Celtic have done with their sniper imagery. At worst, one is a play on words that gives an indication of an informal groups political leanings while the other is an officially sanctioned attempt at something similar. There's also geographical context...this is the UK, and references to the troubles will cause more offence to more people than the other conflict/ situation. If Hearts and ourselves were involved in a historical Lebanese tit-for-tat and we officially came out with Hibsbollah banter then that would be comparable.

P.s. For the record, I'm still not 100% comfortable with it. No offence to anyone.

I'm willing to bet that more hibbies will call themselves Scottish before all else on this bored.

[Pete]

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I'm willing to bet that more hibbies will call themselves Scottish before all else on this bored.

I don't doubt that mate. I said there are probably more who consider themselves British than indications suggest.

[connerg]

Scottish.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I think this thread has veered off topic slightly

[Phil MaGlass]

What I dont get is when the hell will UEFA take steps to properly discipline sellik, huns and the SFA/SPFL, it seems almost every time one of them is in Europe there are disciplinary cases brought against them and small paltry fines are given out, really doesnt deter them.

[JimBHibees]

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What I dont get is when the hell will UEFA take steps to properly discipline sellik, huns and the SFA/SPFL, it seems almost every time one of them is in Europe there are disciplinary cases brought against them and small paltry fines are given out, really doesnt deter them.

Or when Football authorities and clubs in this country will do something about it. Shameful.

[Carheenlea]

Celtic must surely be skating on thin ice with theses latest charges taking them into double figures of offences. I had more trust in UEFA taking a firmer stance than our own authorities, but with each token fine I'm having serious doubt. Utterly pointless continuing to charge a club and handing out fines that can be taken out of the petty cash if proper sanctions are not going to be administered.
As for the paramilitary banner, try taking one of them along to Ibrox in a couple of weeks time and see how you get on - the police will have you out of there and up in court as quick as you can say easy target.

[Kavinho]

Any banner displaying military or paramilitary leanings should never be allowed in a football stadium.

It is divisive and unnecessary, and is intended as provocation of one sort or another.

[Pretty Boy]

The issue with pushing for 'strict liability' or similar is that it would put the spotlight on the poor behaviour of all fans.

You can guarantee if Celtic and Rangers were routinely punished for sectarian offences that there would be a coordinated campaign by their fans to expose offences by other groups of fans. In the days of the smartphone there's really nowhere to hide either. A lot of fans have a level of hypocrisy as well; prior to the last game at Ibrox there were plenty posts along the lines of 'going to be carnage', 'can't wait', 'going to be a war' and so on. There was almost gleeful anticipation of a good old fashioned 80s ding dong. I was there and it wasn't my most pleasant experience at a football game, it was noticeable that a lot of the people most 'up for it' on here also seemed to be shouting the loudest about enquiries, reports and punishment after the event though.

Strict liability would lead to a similar scenario and it opens a bit of a Pandora's box. Unfortunately the bigger games Hibs play in tend to attract a decent minority of erseholes. An average away game sees a few folk who have a had a few pints, a few families and the odd nutter. If the venue happens to be Ibrox, Hampden or Tynecastle then the nutters seem to multiply, the falling over their own feet drunk, pissing in sink, snorting lines in cubicle, fighting amongst themselves nutters are everywhere. That would all increasingly come under the spotlight. The odd, rogue IRA shout on a train would become national news as opposed to a 3 post discussion on a forum, the Skacel song would be seized upon (rightly so btw) and so on. If people accept that and are willing to self police it, condemn it and accept the consequences when the 'we do what we want' brigade carry on regardless then so be it. If the usual football fan hypocrisy applies then Celtic and Rangers will continue to do as they have always done.

[barcahibs]

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The issue with pushing for 'strict liability' or similar is that it would put the spotlight on the poor behaviour of all fans.

You can guarantee if Celtic and Rangers were routinely punished for sectarian offences that there would be a coordinated campaign by their fans to expose offences by other groups of fans. In the days of the smartphone there's really nowhere to hide either. A lot of fans have a level of hypocrisy as well; prior to the last game at Ibrox there were plenty posts along the lines of 'going to be carnage', 'can't wait', 'going to be a war' and so on. There was almost gleeful anticipation of a good old fashioned 80s ding dong. I was there and it wasn't my most pleasant experience at a football game, it was noticeable that a lot of the people most 'up for it' on here also seemed to be shouting the loudest about enquiries, reports and punishment after the event though.

Strict liability would lead to a similar scenario and it opens a bit of a Pandora's box. Unfortunately the bigger games Hibs play in tend to attract a decent minority of erseholes. An average away game sees a few folk who have a had a few pints, a few families and the odd nutter. If the venue happens to be Ibrox, Hampden or Tynecastle then the nutters seem to multiply, the falling over their own feet drunk, pissing in sink, snorting lines in cubicle, fighting amongst themselves nutters are everywhere. That would all increasingly come under the spotlight. The odd, rogue IRA shout on a train would become national news as opposed to a 3 post discussion on a forum, the Skacel song would be seized upon (rightly so btw) and so on. If people accept that and are willing to self police it, condemn it and accept the consequences when the 'we do what we want' brigade carry on regardless then so be it. If the usual football fan hypocrisy applies then Celtic and Rangers will continue to do as they have always done.

Totally agree with this. I think a lot of people have the idea that strict liability would only apply to celtc and the zombies. While they are of course by far the worst offenders, everyone has idiots in their support. I might be va conspiracy theorist but i also don't think it'll just be rantic fans that are pushing for other clubs to be punished.

The football authorities and the media in this country will be desperate to show that the problem exists outside Glasgow and the old firm... And we're a relatively high profile target.

The other discussion about nationality is kind of my point. There'll be folk who identify as Scottish, British, Irish, English, Outer *****lian... The point is that in Easter Road it doesnt matter and no one cares. Unlike in a celtc or zombie support.

[ronaldo7]

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We don't all go to Celtic venues at Hampden at all. If any Hibs fan goes to a Celtic venue at Hampden then I would suggest they're misguided.

I want absolutely no association with Celtic whatsoever. I hate when we get described as a mini Celtic or anything like that. They are a horrible, vile organisation and if Easter Road ever turns into a mini version of Parkhead, it will be the end for me.

We've run buses to the Columbus club (Celtic club), in Blantyre, for years when we're through for semi's and Finals. They treat us very well, put on good food, and we're welcomed from decent people. We were also there, for the 2013 cup final, when Celtic fans were in one hall, and Hibs fans were in the other. No problems whatsoever. We also have lots of children on our bus.

I wouldn't class our group as misguided, but maybe we've never lived eh.

Alternatively we could have gone to the Airdrie Lodge, for an even warmer welcome. http://www.thejournal.ie/hitler-scot...98883-Jul2017/

[Pretty Boy]

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We've run buses to the Columbus club (Celtic club), in Blantyre, for years when we're through for semi's and Finals. They treat us very well, put on good food, and we're welcomed from decent people. We were also there, for the 2013 cup final, when Celtic fans were in one hall, and Hibs fans were in the other. No problems whatsoever. We also have lots of children on our bus.

Alternatively we could have gone to the Airdrie Lodge, for an even warmer welcome. http://www.thejournal.ie/hitler-scot...98883-Jul2017/

Whether people like it or not when it comes to cup finals there are more buses than there are neutral venues willing or able to accomodate. Folk who run buses will be aware of the difficulites in getting a venue until you get your foot in the door with someone.

It then comes down to whether Celtic or Rangers venues are happy to have you and which one makes you feel more welcome and safe. In my experience it's always been the former.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

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The issue with pushing for 'strict liability' or similar is that it would put the spotlight on the poor behaviour of all fans.

You can guarantee if Celtic and Rangers were routinely punished for sectarian offences that there would be a coordinated campaign by their fans to expose offences by other groups of fans. In the days of the smartphone there's really nowhere to hide either. A lot of fans have a level of hypocrisy as well; prior to the last game at Ibrox there were plenty posts along the lines of 'going to be carnage', 'can't wait', 'going to be a war' and so on. There was almost gleeful anticipation of a good old fashioned 80s ding dong. I was there and it wasn't my most pleasant experience at a football game, it was noticeable that a lot of the people most 'up for it' on here also seemed to be shouting the loudest about enquiries, reports and punishment after the event though.

Strict liability would lead to a similar scenario and it opens a bit of a Pandora's box. Unfortunately the bigger games Hibs play in tend to attract a decent minority of erseholes. An average away game sees a few folk who have a had a few pints, a few families and the odd nutter. If the venue happens to be Ibrox, Hampden or Tynecastle then the nutters seem to multiply, the falling over their own feet drunk, pissing in sink, snorting lines in cubicle, fighting amongst themselves nutters are everywhere. That would all increasingly come under the spotlight. The odd, rogue IRA shout on a train would become national news as opposed to a 3 post discussion on a forum, the Skacel song would be seized upon (rightly so btw) and so on. If people accept that and are willing to self police it, condemn it and accept the consequences when the 'we do what we want' brigade carry on regardless then so be it. If the usual football fan hypocrisy applies then Celtic and Rangers will continue to do as they have always done.

Its a good point. Especially given our own chequered past (and present) with football violence. Peoplr in glass houses and all that...

[The Modfather]

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The issue with pushing for 'strict liability' or similar is that it would put the spotlight on the poor behaviour of all fans.

You can guarantee if Celtic and Rangers were routinely punished for sectarian offences that there would be a coordinated campaign by their fans to expose offences by other groups of fans. In the days of the smartphone there's really nowhere to hide either. A lot of fans have a level of hypocrisy as well; prior to the last game at Ibrox there were plenty posts along the lines of 'going to be carnage', 'can't wait', 'going to be a war' and so on. There was almost gleeful anticipation of a good old fashioned 80s ding dong. I was there and it wasn't my most pleasant experience at a football game, it was noticeable that a lot of the people most 'up for it' on here also seemed to be shouting the loudest about enquiries, reports and punishment after the event though.

Strict liability would lead to a similar scenario and it opens a bit of a Pandora's box. Unfortunately the bigger games Hibs play in tend to attract a decent minority of erseholes. An average away game sees a few folk who have a had a few pints, a few families and the odd nutter. If the venue happens to be Ibrox, Hampden or Tynecastle then the nutters seem to multiply, the falling over their own feet drunk, pissing in sink, snorting lines in cubicle, fighting amongst themselves nutters are everywhere. That would all increasingly come under the spotlight. The odd, rogue IRA shout on a train would become national news as opposed to a 3 post discussion on a forum, the Skacel song would be seized upon (rightly so btw) and so on. If people accept that and are willing to self police it, condemn it and accept the consequences when the 'we do what we want' brigade carry on regardless then so be it. If the usual football fan hypocrisy applies then Celtic and Rangers will continue to do as they have always done.

I don't doubt there will be a whole host of whataboutey and finger pointing and orchestrated campaigns when clubs begin to get sanctioned for their fans behaviour. Doesn't concern me though, unacceptable behaviour is unnaceptable behaviour whether the perpetrators have a Hibs top on or any other top.

When the sanctions begin to hit clubs maybe they will actually begin to do address the problems rather than turn a blind eye. From our own support, if we're getting fined etc then maybe the club will take steps to address things like the morons who only come out for the big games. Begin to make sure the police/stewards are doing there job in stopping people clearly blind drunk from entering the ground, having stewards monitoring the toilets etc etc. Not to mention the fans responsibility to self police.

I don't have any faith in the SFA in them doing anything, but with the SFA containing people from various clubs the fans of said clubs have an avenue to begin to apply pressure and hold the SFA, through their own club reprasentatives, to account.

It won't be a quick fix, but in time the unacceptable things that happen today will become less and less as fan behaviour becomes more in line with it being 2017 as there are now deterrents.

[Johnny Clash]

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We've run buses to the Columbus club (Celtic club), in Blantyre, for years when we're through for semi's and Finals. They treat us very well, put on good food, and we're welcomed from decent people. We were also there, for the 2013 cup final, when Celtic fans were in one hall, and Hibs fans were in the other. No problems whatsoever. We also have lots of children on our bus.

I wouldn't class our group as misguided, but maybe we've never lived eh.

Alternatively we could have gone to the Airdrie Lodge, for an even warmer welcome. http://www.thejournal.ie/hitler-scot...98883-Jul2017/

Spot on. It's simply the facts - not a single Hibs supporters bus goes to sevconians/orange/unionist venues. If they really were 'two cheeks of the same arse' then you wouldn't see this happen. It just doesn't stack up.

It doesn't mean you love Celtc in the slightest. We love Hibs but it's a fact we get treated well by most Celtc people. I've had many decent conversations with Celtc fans who have been in these venues. You just avoid certain sensitive subjects - like Celtc having a Lord on their board ... a member of the Conservative and Unionist party no less. Didn't feel comfortable either talking about their previous chairman - war criminal John Reid , who only stepped down in 2011 to take his seat in the House of Lords. I must admit I was tempted to ask if they thought when 'Lord Reid' gets bevied he still sings... "against the famine and the crown" ..

[norhfc]

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Spot on. It's simply the facts - not a single Hibs supporters bus goes to sevconians/orange/unionist venues. If they really were 'two cheeks of the same arse' then you wouldn't see this happen. It just doesn't stack up.

It doesn't mean you love Celtc in the slightest. We love Hibs but it's a fact we get treated well by most Celtc people. I've had many decent conversations with Celtc fans who have been in these venues. You just avoid certain sensitive subjects - like Celtc having a Lord on their board ... a member of the Conservative and Unionist party no less. Didn't feel comfortable either talking about their previous chairman - war criminal John Reid , who only stepped down in 2011 to take his seat in the House of Lords. I must admit I was tempted to ask if they thought when 'Lord Reid' gets bevied he still sings... "against the famine and the crown" ..

This.

[Phil MaGlass]

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Totally agree with this. I think a lot of people have the idea that strict liability would only apply to celtc and the zombies. While they are of course by far the worst offenders, everyone has idiots in their support. I might be va conspiracy theorist but i also don't think it'll just be rantic fans that are pushing for other clubs to be punished.

The football authorities and the media in this country will be desperate to show that the problem exists outside Glasgow and the old firm... And we're a relatively high profile target.

The other discussion about nationality is kind of my point. There'll be folk who identify as Scottish, British, Irish, English, Outer *****lian... The point is that in Easter Road it doesnt matter and no one cares. Unlike in a celtc or zombie support.

100%

[The Harp Awakes]

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We've run buses to the Columbus club (Celtic club), in Blantyre, for years when we're through for semi's and Finals. They treat us very well, put on good food, and we're welcomed from decent people. We were also there, for the 2013 cup final, when Celtic fans were in one hall, and Hibs fans were in the other. No problems whatsoever. We also have lots of children on our bus.

I wouldn't class our group as misguided, but maybe we've never lived eh.

Alternatively we could have gone to the Airdrie Lodge, for an even warmer welcome. http://www.thejournal.ie/hitler-scot...98883-Jul2017/

That pretty much sums up my own perspective. I have no time for any Club in the world other than Hibs. Over the years though, I've never had any bother with Celtic fans whereas the opposite is the case with Rangers/Sevco fans, who in my opinion, other than the odd exception, really are the **** of the earth. At the end of the day you live life by your experiences and that's mine.

[JeMeSouviens]

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The issue with pushing for 'strict liability' or similar is that it would put the spotlight on the poor behaviour of all fans.

You can guarantee if Celtic and Rangers were routinely punished for sectarian offences that there would be a coordinated campaign by their fans to expose offences by other groups of fans. In the days of the smartphone there's really nowhere to hide either. A lot of fans have a level of hypocrisy as well; prior to the last game at Ibrox there were plenty posts along the lines of 'going to be carnage', 'can't wait', 'going to be a war' and so on. There was almost gleeful anticipation of a good old fashioned 80s ding dong. I was there and it wasn't my most pleasant experience at a football game, it was noticeable that a lot of the people most 'up for it' on here also seemed to be shouting the loudest about enquiries, reports and punishment after the event though.

Strict liability would lead to a similar scenario and it opens a bit of a Pandora's box. Unfortunately the bigger games Hibs play in tend to attract a decent minority of erseholes. An average away game sees a few folk who have a had a few pints, a few families and the odd nutter. If the venue happens to be Ibrox, Hampden or Tynecastle then the nutters seem to multiply, the falling over their own feet drunk, pissing in sink, snorting lines in cubicle, fighting amongst themselves nutters are everywhere. That would all increasingly come under the spotlight. The odd, rogue IRA shout on a train would become national news as opposed to a 3 post discussion on a forum, the Skacel song would be seized upon (rightly so btw) and so on. If people accept that and are willing to self police it, condemn it and accept the consequences when the 'we do what we want' brigade carry on regardless then so be it. If the usual football fan hypocrisy applies then Celtic and Rangers will continue to do as they have always done.

I totally agree with your assessment of the situation but personally, I think a few years of hassle would be worth it to stamp out general ********ry surrounding football. In the 70s at football it was acceptable to turn up pished with a carry out, pish on the terraces and throw bottles around. It was also generally acceptable in society to use all sorts of racist, homophobic banter, drive under the influence, without a seatbelt, etc. These things are so much rarer because people were willing to take them on, gradually they become unacceptable and they wither and die. Sometimes society needs a kick up the backside to move forward.

[Sir David Gray]

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We've run buses to the Columbus club (Celtic club), in Blantyre, for years when we're through for semi's and Finals. They treat us very well, put on good food, and we're welcomed from decent people. We were also there, for the 2013 cup final, when Celtic fans were in one hall, and Hibs fans were in the other. No problems whatsoever. We also have lots of children on our bus.

I wouldn't class our group as misguided, but maybe we've never lived eh.

Alternatively we could have gone to the Airdrie Lodge, for an even warmer welcome. http://www.thejournal.ie/hitler-scot...98883-Jul2017/

Crack on, if you want to get wined and dined in a Celtic pub then that's up to you.

I personally wouldn't be seen dead in an establishment that was overtly Celtic or Rangers orientated and I certainly find it weird that any Hibs fan would go into a Celtic venue before a Scottish Cup final vs Celtic and be mixing with Celtic fans.

Each to their own though.

[Sir David Gray]

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Spot on. It's simply the facts - not a single Hibs supporters bus goes to sevconians/orange/unionist venues. If they really were 'two cheeks of the same arse' then you wouldn't see this happen. It just doesn't stack up.

It doesn't mean you love Celtc in the slightest. We love Hibs but it's a fact we get treated well by most Celtc people. I've had many decent conversations with Celtc fans who have been in these venues. You just avoid certain sensitive subjects - like Celtc having a Lord on their board ... a member of the Conservative and Unionist party no less. Didn't feel comfortable either talking about their previous chairman - war criminal John Reid , who only stepped down in 2011 to take his seat in the House of Lords. I must admit I was tempted to ask if they thought when 'Lord Reid' gets bevied he still sings... "against the famine and the crown" ..

We don't get treated well by Celtic fans at all, we get patronised.

Like I said before though, each to their own and crack on if that's what you want to do.

[Brizo]

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We don't get treated well by Celtic fans at all, we get patronised.

Like I said before though, each to their own and crack on if that's what you want to do.

I've no time for Celtc but in the big scheme of things I preferred being patronised to being chased down Paisley Road West by a hun brandishing a blade... but each to their own

[OsloHibs]

I hate them both. Equally.

[Keith_M]

I'm sure the people that said they were treated well in any Celtc Clubs before the Cup Final are talking about the staff, not Celtc Supporters in general.

[superfurryhibby]

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I've no time for Celtc but in the big scheme of things I preferred being patronised to being chased down Paisley Road West by a hun brandishing a blade... but each to their own

This sums it up for me. My worst confrontations in all my years supporting Hibs have come from fans of the Sons of William.

The two two cheeks of the same arse is a lazy arguement. The maxim here should be divide and conquer. Treat the issues with each of the Glasgow team on their merits and recognise that we pander to the status quo by refusing to acknowledge that there are some fundamental differences between the two.

[ronaldo7]

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Crack on, if you want to get wined and dined in a Celtic pub then that's up to you.

I personally wouldn't be seen dead in an establishment that was overtly Celtic or Rangers orientated and I certainly find it weird that any Hibs fan would go into a Celtic venue before a Scottish Cup final vs Celtic and be mixing with Celtic fans.

Each to their own though.

You have to take it as you see it. We've been going to that "Club" for a while now, and not had any bother.

I normally leave the wine for families of the bairns taking their first communion in the other hall.