The All Blacks Philosophy

[Pretty Boy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40526177

Read this article and thought it was very interesting. The concept of dealing with pressure and 'no egos' is an intriguing one. How transferable it is across levels and sports is debatable, ultimately the All Blacks have the best players and they conform because they know the opportunity they have. I wonder if it would be plausible to expect 1st team players at a Scottish premiership club to muck in and help clean the changing rooms for example?

It seems to work for them though and there must be areas that can be borrowed.

[hughio]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40526177

Read this article and thought it was very interesting. The concept of dealing with pressure and 'no egos' is an intriguing one. How transferable it is across levels and sports is debatable, ultimately the All Blacks have the best players and they conform because they know the opportunity they have. I wonder if it would be plausible to expect 1st team players at a Scottish premiership club to muck in and help clean the changing rooms for example?

It seems to work for them though and there must be areas that can be borrowed.

Ha ha.
Trying to imagine the likes of Jason or Stokesy intergrating with that mentality.....

"Ah dinny think so"

[Since90+2]

The culture of professional rugby is completely different to that in football. Football players are as much celebrities as athletes these days whereas even the top rugby players in the world could walk down the main street in most countries and nobody would bat an eyelid.

Beauden Barrett is probably the best rugby player in the world at the moment , how many people in this country have even heard of him let alone would recognise him?

My impression from rugby players is that they tend to want be rugby players much more than celebrities. I'm not sure the same can be said of alot of top football players.

[Jim44]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40526177

Read this article and thought it was very interesting. The concept of dealing with pressure and 'no egos' is an intriguing one. How transferable it is across levels and sports is debatable, ultimately the All Blacks have the best players and they conform because they know the opportunity they have. I wonder if it would be plausible to expect 1st team players at a Scottish premiership club to muck in and help clean the changing rooms for example?

It seems to work for them though and there must be areas that can be borrowed.

The total buy in to their philosophy goes beyond the team itself and the whole nation is cocooned in their very existence, progress and indefatigably. In 2007 my daughter was working as a GP in New Plymouth. After being knocked out of the Rugby World Cup by France, she told me she couldn't believe the flood of patients, young, old, male and female, queueing up for consultations for treatment for depression and sick leave from work. It went on for weeks.

[Smartie]

I think that the top, top footballers would buy into it no problem.

It's the many layers of primadonnas who exist a few levels below that who wouldn't / couldn't.

Which is what separates the top players from the rest imo.

[Pretty Boy]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think that the top, top footballers would buy into it no problem.

It's the many layers of primadonnas who exist a few levels below that who wouldn't / couldn't.

Which is what separates the top players from the rest imo.

Yep, I think that's something like my take on it.

As an example Cristiano Ronaldo, one of the greatest players ever to play the game, was singled out repeatedly for praise by Alex Ferguson in his books. He said his dedication to being better and helping the team be better was almost unrivaled. He also singled out Henrik Larrson for similar praised and his willingness to do whatever he was asked for the team. You also recently had a surgeon in the US say he was stunned at the brilliant physical shape Zlatan Ibrahimovic was in for his age, that's not just luck.

It would be interesting to see how well a team of, relatively speaking, modestly skilled footballers could do if they really bought into a similar ideal. Could they elevate themselves to a better level?

[Steve-O]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The culture of professional rugby is completely different to that in football. Football players are as much celebrities as athletes these days whereas even the top rugby players in the world could walk down the main street in most countries and nobody would bat an eyelid.

Beauden Barrett is probably the best rugby player in the world at the moment , how many people in this country have even heard of him let alone would recognise him?

My impression from rugby players is that they tend to want be rugby players much more than celebrities. I'm not sure the same can be said of alot of top football players.

It's not quite like that here in NZ though. The All Blacks brand and players are everywhere! The brand is on everything (latest being birth certificates!) and the players are involved in advertising multiple products all over TV from sports drinks to heat pumps and of course Adidas etc.

There does seem to be less ego about them than footballers though, that much is true. Whenever Dan Carter (at one time, the top star in the team) was injured, he'd be the team's waterboy! Literally coming on during stoppages in games with the water bottles. As others have said, can you imagine footballers doing that?

There's a certain pride that the likes of Scotland football team doesn't have. I can't imagine a Scott Brown type scenario for a start - i.e. The captain retiring but then he's deciding he'll come back.

The difference is also that playing for the ABs means everything - there'd be no pulling out of the squad and playing a club game a few days later, like a few old firm players have done over the years.

[Mr White]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yep, I think that's something like my take on it.

As an example Cristiano Ronaldo, one of the greatest players ever to play the game, was singled out repeatedly for praise by Alex Ferguson in his books. He said his dedication to being better and helping the team be better was almost unrivaled. He also singled out Henrik Larrson for similar praised and his willingness to do whatever he was asked for the team. You also recently had a surgeon in the US say he was stunned at the brilliant physical shape Zlatan Ibrahimovic was in for his age, that's not just luck.

It would be interesting to see how well a team of, relatively speaking, modestly skilled footballers could do if they really bought into a similar ideal. Could they elevate themselves to a better level?

I wonder if the Icelandic national team has looked at the all blacks psychology and managed to implement some aspects as part of their success? Along with investment in coaching and facilities which seem to be the real foundation of their improvement.

There are a few similarities between the 2 nations, both in geography, history and the tough lives endured by settlers for many years until relatively recently. Albeit Iceland has a much much smaller population which of course makes their recent international achievements all the more remarkable.

[Aldoo]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40526177

Read this article and thought it was very interesting. The concept of dealing with pressure and 'no egos' is an intriguing one. How transferable it is across levels and sports is debatable, ultimately the All Blacks have the best players and they conform because they know the opportunity they have. I wonder if it would be plausible to expect 1st team players at a Scottish premiership club to muck in and help clean the changing rooms for example?

It seems to work for them though and there must be areas that can be borrowed.

The 'leaving the shirt in a better place' concept has always fascinated me. I think it would be good to challenge each player Hibs sign to ensure by the time they leave that they have indeed done this very thing! Make the commitment to Hibs personal straight from the off.

[Peevemor]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The 'leaving the shirt in a better place' concept has always fascinated me. I think it would be good to challenge each player Hibs sign to ensure by the time they leave that they have indeed done this very thing! Make the commitment to Hibs personal straight from the off.

Luckily it's not caught on at Tynecastle - you wouldn't be able to move at ER for maroon jerseys!

[Since90+2]

Athletic Bilbao are probably a club where a similar ethos and culture exists in that its seen as the sporting pinnacle of people from that area to represent the club (or the Basque country as they would see). I dont think you can artificially recreate that culture in other sports teams without something unique that people can relate to.

Not sure if there are any other examples in sport but would be interested to hear of any others?

[heidtheba]

I've not read the book 'Legacy' but I've listened to various articles about it. The All Blacks really do it so very well - the thing about sweeping up the changing rooms after a match is quite impressive. The thinking behind it is 'no one looks after us, we do that ourselves' and 'nothing is beneath us' and also 'training is never finished'.
Mrs Me is a Kiwi, not a massive rugby fan but the All Blacks are the All Blacks, they define her more than most other things about her country. It also means that I get to support them. Couldn't tell you much about rugby but watching the All Blacks? Inspiring.

[Heedersnvolleys]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I've not read the book 'Legacy' but I've listened to various articles about it. The All Blacks really do it so very well - the thing about sweeping up the changing rooms after a match is quite impressive. The thinking behind it is 'no one looks after us, we do that ourselves' and 'nothing is beneath us' and also 'training is never finished'.
Mrs Me is a Kiwi, not a massive rugby fan but the All Blacks are the All Blacks, they define her more than most other things about her country. It also means that I get to support them. Couldn't tell you much about rugby but watching the All Blacks? Inspiring.

I was going to write something along the lines of because of player power in football this mentality would never take off in football but from what I have seen and read that is exactly how this mentality is forged and carried on is due to the players instigating the ethos and standards not the coaching team. I think the main reason it would not take off in football is because football players are so used to be being told everything to do and there is no need to think for themselves

[heidtheba]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The 'leaving the shirt in a better place' concept has always fascinated me. I think it would be good to challenge each player Hibs sign to ensure by the time they leave that they have indeed done this very thing! Make the commitment to Hibs personal straight from the off.

I totally agree with what you are saying, sadly the biggest obstacle here is the fact the the All Blacks are international. A Kiwi player can only play for them (although club rugby in other countries takes them away from that possibility). There's no Celtic/The Rangers or otherwise to tempt them. Some cocky wee upstart can't just jump at the first signof hard work and sign for the 'team I have really always wanted to play for'. I wonder if Scott Allan would have been a different sportsperson if he either had to choose between a payday or the highest profile, best side in the World?

[MartinfaePorty]

Having only watched rugby for a number of years on TV, I am by no means an expert, but maybe someone can respond to these points/questions:

How many games do the all Blacks play each year - not many, I would assume?; how much of a priority is playing for the All Blacks over club rugby?; what are the options for a good rugby union player from New Zealand? i.e. can he make as good or better living in another country (Australia, Asia, Europe) or is staying and playing for his country the highest they could aspire to?

The only reason I raise this is that footballers have a massive amount of options, so there are a number of pulls on them, primarily, but not exclusively, financial. A good Scottish footballer, for example, will be in demand from a number of teams, so - rightly or wrongly - he doesn't really need to buy in to the concepts that have been mentioned in this report. However, the higher they go up, the more that will (or, at least, should) be expected of them. With respect to international football, this should be the highlight of their career, however they have to consider the impact on their career, plus influences from their club. English clubs, for example, have increasing foreign ownership and where is the incentive for Abramovich to encourage his star assets to potentially injure themselves not in service of their main employer, for a country he doesn't have any connection with?

I also have a slight issue against the purveying attitude towards footballers, calling them of 'primadonnas' or similar. Yes, a number of them are by no means perfect, but it can be a fairly short career, even more so if they sustain a serious injury. Many of them are exploited by agents and cast aside when they are no longer of use and they are under the microscope almost every second of every day. It's not really footballers' fault they get paid high salaries and I often wonder why people don't get similarly excited by other professions ('see that Stephen King, he's not released a book this year, lazy so-and-so, never thinking of his public who pay his wages'). Who is the moral arbiter for how much someone gets paid for doing their job? I'm sure the majority of people would love to see nurses, teachers, police pay go up, but when newspapers compare what they earn them to sportspeople, usually footballers, it's deflection and lazy journalism.

Apologies if this has got a bit off topic, but just wanted to put forward another point of view. All we can hope for, in my opinion, is that sportspeople understand how lucky they are and for football, as a whole, to support the players when things don't go so well, as seen in some recent high profile cases of mental health issues. They are, after all, human beings like the rest of us, albeit living a very different lifestyle.

[Mibbes Aye]

I posted this link on the "Other Sports" forum a couple of years ago - really good, in-depth article about the mindset and culture around rugby in New Zealand.

Rereading it, the journalist visits a school - Auckland Grammar - and they talk about one of their FPs hopefully making it into the All Blacks. It was Rieko Ioane, who scored two tries in the first Lions Test. He also speaks to Beauden Barrett's dad and at the time of writing, Jordie Barrett hadn't turned pro yet!

It's a worthwhile read

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...-rugby-dynasty

[Since90+2]

MartinfaePorty - In terms of finances the highest wages in club rugby are paid in the Top14 in France but very very rarely will you see a top Southern Hemisphere player move there at the peak of their career.

Dan Carter , generally regarded as one of the best 2 players of his generation along with Richie McCaw , moved to Racing Metro of Paris to become the highest paid player in the world on around £25,000 per week but only did so at the end of his career. Super Rugby (where franchises from South Africa, New Zealand and Australia compete) is the rugby equivalent of the Champions League and most players will earn good money but nothing like the kind of money players at the highest level in football will get.

Unlike in football international caps and tournaments are held in far higher esteem than club tournaments and this helps keep brands like the All Blacks at the very top of the sport.

[heretoday]

One of the big differences between an All Black philosophy and a football team here is the position of manager to our teams. With the NZ team you almost feel as though they could function fine without a manager whereas a football club here is described as "rudderless" without a guy at the top. The players themselves aren't expected to step up and assume any position of influence. It's quite a childish philosophy really.

[Iain G]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

MartinfaePorty - In terms of finances the highest wages in club rugby are paid in the Top14 in France but very very rarely will you see a top Southern Hemisphere player move there at the peak of their career.

Dan Carter , generally regarded as one of the best 2 players of his generation along with Richie McCaw , moved to Racing Metro of Paris to become the highest paid player in the world on around £25,000 per week but only did so at the end of his career. Super Rugby (where franchises from South Africa, New Zealand and Australia compete) is the rugby equivalent of the Champions League and most players will earn good money but nothing like the kind of money players at the highest level in football will get.

Unlike in football international caps and tournaments are held in far higher esteem than club tournaments and this helps keep brands like the All Blacks at the very top of the sport.

Basically if Brazil told all of their players they could only play for Brazil if they played for one of the Brazillian league clubs and it they go abroad they won't be selected. However the modern footballer/mercenary will put cash before honour and glory and nation and would chose to go chasing the dollar/pound/euro/yen instead...

[HibernianJK]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The culture of professional rugby is completely different to that in football. Football players are as much celebrities as athletes these days whereas even the top rugby players in the world could walk down the main street in most countries and nobody would bat an eyelid.

Beauden Barrett is probably the best rugby player in the world at the moment , how many people in this country have even heard of him let alone would recognise him?

My impression from rugby players is that they tend to want be rugby players much more than celebrities. I'm not sure the same can be said of alot of top football players.

One of my mates who's right in to his rugby told me to look out for Barrett 2/3 years ago - watched him a couple times and thought he still looked a bit rough around the edges and preferred Cruden.

What a player he's developed in to though.

Going back to the OP, yes it's a great article. Depicts the mentality perfectly and it's why they are so far ahead. It's not just a job or an honor playing for the All Blacks, it's a way of life.

[MartinfaePorty]

Thanks for the responses. Be interesting to see how the game goes tomorrow. Not sure how invested I am in the Lions, given no Scots even on bench. May the better team win!

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[LancsHibs]

Maybe the players should perform a Hibee Haka to the opposition before each game

[therealgavmac]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Maybe the players should perform a Hibee Haka to the opposition before each game

When I played with London Scottish back in the early 80s (yes, I was an egg chaser for 25 years) while on tour in France we lined up looking like we were going to perform some kind of challenge before each game..... what we actually performed was the time warp from Rocky Horror...... went down a storm

[A Hi-Bee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40526177

Read this article and thought it was very interesting. The concept of dealing with pressure and 'no egos' is an intriguing one. How transferable it is across levels and sports is debatable, ultimately the All Blacks have the best players and they conform because they know the opportunity they have. I wonder if it would be plausible to expect 1st team players at a Scottish premiership club to muck in and help clean the changing rooms for example?

It seems to work for them though and there must be areas that can be borrowed.

Perhaps a lot of the philosophy comes from the Maori and the Samoan Islander culture who provide the backbone to this fine team.

[JK Rolling]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

It's not quite like that here in NZ though. The All Blacks brand and players are everywhere! The brand is on everything (latest being birth certificates!) and the players are involved in advertising multiple products all over TV from sports drinks to heat pumps and of course Adidas etc.

There does seem to be less ego about them than footballers though, that much is true. Whenever Dan Carter (at one time, the top star in the team) was injured, he'd be the team's waterboy! Literally coming on during stoppages in games with the water bottles. As others have said, can you imagine footballers doing that?

There's a certain pride that the likes of Scotland football team doesn't have. I can't imagine a Scott Brown type scenario for a start - i.e. The captain retiring but then he's deciding he'll come back.

The difference is also that playing for the ABs means everything - there'd be no pulling out of the squad and playing a club game a few days later, like a few old firm players have done over the years.

Very informative post mate, thanks very much. Your point re playing for the ABs is a really good one as I personally think, some will think somewhat naively, that the honour of playing for your country should be the be all and end all.

[Mibbes Aye]

The thing for me is the commitment at a national level.

They have a population slightly smaller than Scotland.

They outplay any other team on the planet. To the extent that their win rate against other professional nations looks silly.

And generally it's open, expansive rugby - catch and pass repeated ad infinitum. Beautiful play.

There's something about the mindset there that we could pick up on.

[Ozyhibby]

The All Blacks are everything in NZ. It's a national obsession. They are also blessed with a Maori population who are genetically bigger than average and they also take the best Pacific Island players as well who are also big lads.
The fact they play rugby from when they are toddlers and they have a massive school rugby programme means they are also very skillful. They are a great team to watch.
And since its 16 years since a Scotsman started for the Lions, I hope the All Blacks smash them tomorrow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

I've been to watch the All Blacks twice and they've lost both matches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Heedersnvolleys]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I posted this link on the "Other Sports" forum a couple of years ago - really good, in-depth article about the mindset and culture around rugby in New Zealand.

Rereading it, the journalist visits a school - Auckland Grammar - and they talk about one of their FPs hopefully making it into the All Blacks. It was Rieko Ioane, who scored two tries in the first Lions Test. He also speaks to Beauden Barrett's dad and at the time of writing, Jordie Barrett hadn't turned pro yet!

It's a worthwhile read

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/bl...-rugby-dynasty

Not just a very good structure at schoolboy level but good coaches as well but more importantly a very competitive schoolboy system.

[heidtheba]

This might not be for everyone - but if we're talking 'philosophy' behind the All Blacks then please, give it a watch.

Legacy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ncqQt4j_Cc