Jermaine Pennant

[Stevie Reid]

I've not rethought things since our Scottish Cup win last year, but both Sauzee (1) and Collins (3) were in my all time top 3 Hibs players - given that Collins was 22 when he left us, and Franck was 34 when he signed, it says a lot for how good both were at their peak.

McStay not even close to either.

[blackpoolhibs]

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Would he become our most expensive player ever? I think it might be Taiwo just now at around £5m if you count before Hibs but Fletcher if counting after.

Notts C to Arsenal - £2M
Arse to Birm - £3M
Birm to L'pool - £6.7M
Zaragoza to Stoke - £1.725M with options

Probably more for earlier loans too but that alone totals £13.425 Million.

I think Steven Fletcher has gone for more than that during all his moves?

[greenlex]

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What a bizarre thing to say, damaging our game? Players like Pennant and Holt etc bring a wealth of experience to our game that our own younger players benefit from.

It's not really. Bringing in foreigners instead of Scottish players is definitely damaging our game. The younger players being blocked from the first team and their development pathway is definitely damaging our game. Being loaned out to lower league teams for game time whilst is better than sitting in the stand it's not going to help that much in the long run.

[California-Hibs]

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Would he become our most expensive player ever? I think it might be Taiwo just now at around £5m if you count before Hibs but Fletcher if counting after.

Notts C to Arsenal - £2M
Arse to Birm - £3M
Birm to L'pool - £6.7M
Zaragoza to Stoke - £1.725M with options

Probably more for earlier loans too but that alone totals £13.425 Million.

Tom Taiwo is our most expensive player ever?? Surely not?! Tom....bloody...Taiwo?

[A Hi-Bee]

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It's not really. Bringing in foreigners instead of Scottish players is definitely damaging our game. The younger players being blocked from the first team and their development pathway is definitely damaging our game. Being loaned out to lower league teams for game time whilst is better than sitting in the stand it's not going to help that much in the long run.

It's also a results driven game and how many managers are given the time to build using some experienced players while bring through a crop of youngsters, how long will the boards of clubs not to mention the fickle supporters stand for a run of defeats with a view to building for the future.

[Scouse Hibee]

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It's not really. Bringing in foreigners instead of Scottish players is definitely damaging our game. The younger players being blocked from the first team and their development pathway is definitely damaging our game. Being loaned out to lower league teams for game time whilst is better than sitting in the stand it's not going to help that much in the long run.

Our younger players are not currently good enough to make the step up hence the reason they are loaned out. Everyone is saying Shaw looks like he would be better going on loan this season. If you are good enough you are old enough, if you're not then loan game time is best, nowt to do with having an older experiences player in the squad.

[hfc rd]

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I thought he did ok. Was expecting him to look unfit but he certainly didn't. Good free kick and made an intelligent run for his goal which paid off. I think the ovation he got when he went off showed the majority of fans were impressed.

Agree with this.

Lennon seemed pleased with his performance as well. Will just see how he gets on in the next couple of games and if he does well, then let's get him signed up.

[greenlex]

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It's also a results driven game and how many managers are given the time to build using some experienced players while bring through a crop of youngsters, how long will the boards of clubs not to mention the fickle supporters stand for a run of defeats with a view to building for the future.

Absolutely but that's another discussion. Larger leagues and a bit of breathing space would certainly help.

[greenlex]

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Our younger players are not currently good enough to make the step up hence the reason they are loaned out. Everyone is saying Shaw looks like he would be better going on loan this season. If you are good enough you are old enough, if you're not then loan game time is best, nowt to do with having an older experiences player in the squad.

Have to agree to disagree. Look at Hearts over the last few years. They had no choice n]but play their youngsters. They produced a handful of decent players in the process. They have managed to mismanage then since to be fair.
Going further back. Williamson was in a similar position as we cut costs drastically. He played them and we brought through our golden generation. I'm not even saying they have to be home grown yoUngsters either. There must be players from other clubs that might not be too big a gamble that can be brought in as we did with John McGinn. Similar type deal with a larger sell on clause. I'll give you Lewis Morgan as an example. IMO I think he would give just as much in the park as Pennant. Personally I'd prefer that to a foreigner. Develop the Scots.
Not against an exceptional player from abroad but IM not sure we can afford them.

[silverhibee]

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It's not really. Bringing in foreigners instead of Scottish players is definitely damaging our game. The younger players being blocked from the first team and their development pathway is definitely damaging our game. Being loaned out to lower league teams for game time whilst is better than sitting in the stand it's not going to help that much in the long run.

The damage was done when the SPFL/SFA got rid of the reserve league, was a great learning curve for young players coming through the ranks in clubs in Scotland.

[greenlex]

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The damage was done when the SPFL/SFA got rid of the reserve league, was a great learning curve for young players coming through the ranks in clubs in Scotland.

Agree with that Silver.

[Scouse Hibee]

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Have to agree to disagree. Look at Hearts over the last few years. They had no choice n]but play their youngsters. They produced a handful of decent players in the process. They have managed to mismanage then since to be fair.
Going further back. Williamson was in a similar position as we cut costs drastically. He played them and we brought through our golden generation. I'm not even saying they have to be home grown yoUngsters either. There must be players from other clubs that might not be too big a gamble that can be brought in as we did with John McGinn. Similar type deal with a larger sell on clause. I'll give you Lewis Morgan as an example. IMO I think he would give just as much in the park as Pennant. Personally I'd prefer that to a foreigner. Develop the Scots.
Not against an exceptional player from abroad but IM not sure we can afford them.

I agree to an extent, the Hearts youngsters being an example of maybe we should take a gamble on a few of our own more often. I know there is a case of saying if you throw them in to early then you could damage their confidence and self belief but can't help thinking that some may be good enough to rise to the challenge and breakthrough even when it doesn't look likely. It's pretty frustrating the amount we have out on loan who seem a prospect but never return to us to make it. Maybe they should cut their teeth at a higher level instead.

[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Whether it is Pennant or Samras or Stokes or Berry or even Lafferty , the decision is Lennon's to make and you either trust him or you don't.

[Scouse Hibee]

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Whether it is Pennant or Samras or Stokes or Berry or even Lafferty , the decision is Lennon's to make and you either trust him or you don't.

We all know that but we are allowed to have a discussion giving our opinions on it, nothing to do with trusting the manager or not.

[silverhibee]

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I agree to an extent, the Hearts youngsters being an example of maybe we should take a gamble on a few of our own more often. I know there is a case of saying if you throw them in to early then you could damage their confidence and self belief but can't help thinking that some may be good enough to rise to the challenge and breakthrough even when it doesn't look likely. It's pretty frustrating the amount we have out on loan who seem a prospect but never return to us to make it. Maybe they should cut their teeth at a higher level instead.

Because they don't learn anything when they go on loan, basically they are just getting game time, sending young lads to the bottom league is a joke, it is not pretty stuff, infact it's horrible watching teams in the bottom league, the football on show is dire, would i send young lads out on loan to Edinburgh City, no chance, what are they going to learn, nothing, the manager can't pass on any experience as he doesn't have any apart from the level he is at, will they learn anything from the players around them, probably not as it will be young lads playing alongside our loanees.

Don't just through players out on loan for the sake of it, make sure the club has a experienced manager and a few older player in the team that are coming to the end of there careers that will tutor the players through games and help them develop, the loan players have to be hungry for it as well and if they show that older heads in the team will help our young players.

Our development league set up in Scotland is not developing young lads.

[ancient hibee]

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Because they don't learn anything when they go on loan, basically they are just getting game time, sending young lads to the bottom league is a joke, it is not pretty stuff, infact it's horrible watching teams in the bottom league, the football on show is dire, would i send young lads out on loan to Edinburgh City, no chance, what are they going to learn, nothing, the manager can't pass on any experience as he doesn't have any apart from the level he is at, will they learn anything from the players around them, probably not as it will be young lads playing alongside our loanees.

Don't just through players out on loan for the sake of it, make sure the club has a experienced manager and a few older player in the team that are coming to the end of there careers that will tutor the players through games and help them develop, the loan players have to be hungry for it as well and if they show that older heads in the team will help our young players.

Our development league set up in Scotland is not developing young lads.

Agree with you about the lack of a reserve league but not all that you say about loans.Two important parts of a loan are to let players make their mistakes where they don't affect their own club or the fickle supporters who are to quick to judge them and to help them develop the physicality necessary for the top level.Incidentally Porteous improved at Edinburgh City and was part of the second best defence in that league.He now gets a chance to experience the Championship this coming season which should bring him on further.

[Hibrandenburg]

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What a bizarre thing to say, damaging our game? Players like Pennant and Holt etc bring a wealth of experience to our game that our own younger players benefit from.

How's that worked out for England? The premiership is the richest league in the world but the national team is ordinary at best.

[Andy74]

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Agree with you about the lack of a reserve league but not all that you say about loans.Two important parts of a loan are to let players make their mistakes where they don't affect their own club or the fickle supporters who are to quick to judge them and to help them develop the physicality necessary for the top level.Incidentally Porteous improved at Edinburgh City and was part of the second best defence in that league.He now gets a chance to experience the Championship this coming season which should bring him on further.

Aye. Porteous has been talking about the learning curve in playing against small 17 year olds to big tough centre forwards that nip you and elbow you.

I think it's a good thing to get a dose of proper tough football away from the development league games.

[Scouse Hibee]

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How's that worked out for England? The premiership is the richest league in the world but the national team is ordinary at best.

How you have switched from club to country is beyond me, different ball park! Would love you to explain how being the richest league in the world full of foreigners literally has helped the youngsters. Let's be realistic and compare eggs with eggs eh!! I am talking about a few experienced players in our squad. Well done for getting the England dig in though, even though England have **** all to do with the conversation I applaud your creativity!!

[Baader]

Farming young players out on loan, at the right time in their development, is a good thing. It toughens them up and they get to play proper competitive league matches as opposed to playing against similar aged kids where the end result of a match isn't quite so important.

It also makes them realise how much an opportunity they have being at a club like Hibs and the prospects on offer if they work hard. Training alongside part-timers or guys who had ability but didn't knuckle down and now make less of a living out of the game than they probably should have. Used correctly with the right player and right club it will benefit us.

[pacorosssco]

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Aye. Porteous has been talking about the learning curve in playing against small 17 year olds to big tough centre forwards that nip you and elbow you.

I think it's a good thing to get a dose of proper tough football away from the development league games.

We should move players up quickly as possible. Challenge is what improves a player. First team footy soon as possible via loan system or straight in if good enough

[Hibrandenburg]

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How you have switched from club to country is beyond me, different ball park! Would love you to explain how being the richest league in the world full of foreigners literally has helped the youngsters. Let's be realistic and compare eggs with eggs eh!! I am talking about a few experienced players in our squad. Well done for getting the England dig in though, even though England have **** all to do with the conversation I applaud your creativity!!

Behave. It wasn't a dig at England, they're the obvious comparison to use when discussing what effect the influx of foreign players has on a domestic league and the impact of that on the national team. It's been part and parcel of the English league as far back as I can remember and only really became a problem in Scotland after Bosnan. There's an argument to be made that countries who have their best players playing in foreign leagues benefit on a national level because it's those players who bring back experience to the national team instead of the other way round like is being suggested here. The best Scotland team that I ever saw was the one in the 70's where the majority of the team were legionnaires. Think you're being over sensitive and playing the racist card is out of order.

[Scouse Hibee]

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Behave. It wasn't a dig at England, they're the obvious comparison to use when discussing what effect the influx of foreign players has on a domestic league and the impact of that on the national team. It's been part and parcel of the English league as far back as I can remember and only really became a problem in Scotland after Bosnan. There's an argument to be made that countries who have their best players playing in foreign leagues benefit on a national level because it's those players who bring back experience to the national team instead of the other way round like is being suggested here. The best Scotland team that I ever saw was the one in the 70's where the majority of the team were legionnaires. Think you're being over sensitive and playing the racist card is out of order.

To be honest I never considered myself to be playing the racist card or you so no worries there. I never really consider a dig at English football to have racist connotations, likewise if I berated Scotland. Anyway back to subject, as I said I am talking about one or two experienced players and the benefits they bring, pretty sure Cummings said how much he benefitted from Holt's presence last season.

[Heisenberg]

How did he get on today?

[DTS]

Looked good to me again today I'd give him a year

[Northernhibee]

I'd sign him.

[overdrive]

Puts in good balls into the box. I think he's worth a punt.

[snooky]

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The damage was done when the SPFL/SFA got rid of the reserve league, was a great learning curve for young players coming through the ranks in clubs in Scotland.

100% true. As plain as the nose on your face but the officials don't see it.

[makaveli1875]

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Puts in good balls into the box. I think he's worth a punt.

who cares if he puts good crosses in , he's pish in the warm ups

[Pretty Boy]

He could well play himself into a deal. Confident on the ball and his vision is still there, couple of really good passes and crosses today.