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Thread: Baby Box

  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    When you are given approx £160 worth of free stuff then I would expect the feedback to be extremely positive, what else did anyone expect?


    The tory naysayers were calling it another SNP vanity project. I heard the head of midwifery in Scotland on the radio this morning, saying it has made a great deal of difference to young mothers.

    Long may they be given to our young Scots. Well worth the money.
    Last edited by ronaldo7; 19-12-2017 at 07:16 PM.


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  3. #32
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    The tory naysayers were calling it another SNP vanity project. I heard the head of midwifery in Scotland on the radio this morning, saying it has make a great deal of difference to young mothers.

    Long may they be given to our young Scots. Well worth the money.
    If it's helping then great, but still question what other kind of feedback they were expecting from people being given free stuff other than it being extremely positive.

  4. #33
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    If it's helping then great, but still question what other kind of feedback they were expecting from people being given free stuff other than it being extremely positive.
    They got all sorts of feedback. What they used most, what was the most beneficial, what they didn't like, and what would they like to see in any new boxes.

    As you've now agreed, it's helping, and that's all that matters.

    If only we could build ships these days.

  5. #34
    Coaching Staff -Jonesy-'s Avatar
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    Listened to call Kaye about it this morning and there are some proper roasters against it, I bet if you drew up a ven diagram of people who think the baby box should be scrapped against people with an inherent dislike of the SNP it would just be one big soor faced circle.

    Vocally being against something that is offered to each and all newborns help their start in life is totally moronic and indefensible.

  6. #35
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Jonesy- View Post
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    Listened to call Kaye about it this morning and there are some proper roasters against it, I bet if you drew up a ven diagram of people who think the baby box should be scrapped against people with an inherent dislike of the SNP it would just be one big soor faced circle.

    Vocally being against something that is offered to each and all newborns help their start in life is totally moronic and indefensible.
    Maybe the Royal Navy can use the boxes by turning them upside down, and floating them off the coast as an Aircraft carrier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Jonesy- View Post
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    Listened to call Kaye about it this morning and there are some proper roasters against it, I bet if you drew up a ven diagram of people who think the baby box should be scrapped against people with an inherent dislike of the SNP it would just be one big soor faced circle.

    Vocally being against something that is offered to each and all newborns help their start in life is totally moronic and indefensible.
    Indefensable?

    What if the money used for the boxes could be uaed to offer currently unavailable life saving treatment, or pay for better nursery education?

    You may or may not like the boxes, but to say any criticism of them is indefensible is just plain wrong.

  8. #37
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by -Jonesy- View Post
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    Listened to call Kaye about it this morning and there are some proper roasters against it, I bet if you drew up a ven diagram of people who think the baby box should be scrapped against people with an inherent dislike of the SNP it would just be one big soor faced circle.

    Vocally being against something that is offered to each and all newborns help their start in life is totally moronic and indefensible.
    I reckon they are a decent idea. Dismissing any criticism as moronic and indefensible is a bit OTT though isnít it?
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  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    If it's helping then great, but still question what other kind of feedback they were expecting from people being given free stuff other than it being extremely positive.
    Its a fair point.

    The assessment of their success can only be made when the babies currently getting them are old enough for us to judge the effdct, and with a few years of info on how they have improved outcomes for baby and parents.

    Of course people will like free stuff - its only a valid comparison if you are also making it clear what the money spent on these coyld have been doing if used differently.

    Asking someone if they like free stuff doesnt really count as evidenced-based policy making, especially when the person asking the question came up with the idea in the first place, hardly an objective view!

  10. #39
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Maybe the Royal Navy can use the boxes by turning them upside down, and floating them off the coast as an Aircraft carrier.
    There may be some criticism of the SNP ... quick. Change the subject.
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  11. #40
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Jonesy- View Post
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    Listened to call Kaye about it this morning and there are some proper roasters against it, I bet if you drew up a ven diagram of people who think the baby box should be scrapped against people with an inherent dislike of the SNP it would just be one big soor faced circle.

    Vocally being against something that is offered to each and all newborns help their start in life is totally moronic and indefensible.
    If you feel that the tens of millions spent on this is money well spent that's your valid opinion, others may argue the money could be better spent elsewhere and that's a valid view as well, is it not?

  12. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by -Jonesy- View Post
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    Listened to call Kaye about it this morning and there are some proper roasters against it, I bet if you drew up a ven diagram of people who think the baby box should be scrapped against people with an inherent dislike of the SNP it would just be one big soor faced circle.

    Vocally being against something that is offered to each and all newborns help their start in life is totally moronic and indefensible.
    Suppose that's what you get when you listen to the Biased Broadcasting Corporation. Their radio is no different to the TV, instead of rigged audiences full of plants, just a queue of yoon trolls on the phone instead. Don't waste your time, you'll hear nothing good.
    Last edited by John_R_Corbett; 19-12-2017 at 11:10 PM.

  13. #42
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Perspective.

    cost per Scottish tax payer per year for baby boxes =£4.00
    Trident = £269
    Brexit (projection) = £5,333
    HS2 = £2,201
    Westminster refurb = £276
    General Election = £5.65
    DUP deal to prop up the Government =£59
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

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    Quote Originally Posted by John_R_Corbett View Post
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    Suppose that's what you get when you listen to the Biased Broadcasting Corporation. Their radio is no different to the TV, instead of rigged audiences full of plants, just a queue of yoon trolls on the phone instead. Don't waste your time, you'll hear nothing good.
    Yeah, but an SNP supporter rabidly and unquestioningly supporting an SNP policy is of course nothing to do with bias.

    By nothing good, you mean you wont hear people say what you want them to say. That sounds a bit fascist to be honest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    Perspective.

    cost per Scottish tax payer per year for baby boxes =£4.00
    Trident = £269
    Brexit (projection) = £5,333
    HS2 = £2,201
    Westminster refurb = £276
    General Election = £5.65
    DUP deal to prop up the Government =£59
    But none of the above has anything to do with, or says anything about how successful, or not, the policy has been.

    Still, the SNP came up with it, so it must be unqestionably good eh?

  16. #45
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    There may be some criticism of the SNP ... quick. Change the subject.
    Oh, I could go on, but will just leave this one here.

    Royal Navy has no major warships deployed for the first time in living memory, frigates, and destroyers all tied up in Portsmouth/Devonport.

    All six Type 45 destroyers are in Portsmouth because of a combination of mechanical problems, routine maintenance, a shortage of manpower and the need to give sailors leave over Christmas.

    The 13 type frigates are also split between the two bases for similar reasons.

    All due to cutbacks, and Tory mismanagement.

    Don't worry though, Britannia rules the waves. Take back control, and let's promote soft power abroad.

    The baby box goes from strength to strength though.

  17. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    Perspective.

    cost per Scottish tax payer per year for baby boxes =£4.00
    Trident = £269
    Brexit (projection) = £5,333
    HS2 = £2,201
    Westminster refurb = £276
    General Election = £5.65
    DUP deal to prop up the Government =£59
    Of all the money spent/wasted on various things, I personally think the baby boxes are an excellent initiative for those who need the support. Parents who don't need them, needn't register, and the cost is very modest.
    HIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875

  18. #47
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Oh, I could go on, but will just leave this one here.

    Royal Navy has no major warships deployed for the first time in living memory, frigates, and destroyers all tied up in Portsmouth/Devonport.

    All six Type 45 destroyers are in Portsmouth because of a combination of mechanical problems, routine maintenance, a shortage of manpower and the need to give sailors leave over Christmas.

    The 13 type frigates are also split between the two bases for similar reasons.

    All due to cutbacks, and Tory mismanagement.

    Don't worry though, Britannia rules the waves. Take back control, and let's promote soft power abroad.

    The baby box goes from strength to strength though.
    None of which has nothing to do with the Baby box.
    Surely you should be starting another thread to press the case for increased military spending.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
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    He'll die before he's sold.

  19. #48
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    None of which has nothing to do with the Baby box.
    Surely you should be starting another thread to press the case for increased military spending.
    My tenuous link of the baby box floating down the forth as our new air craft carrier doesn't count then.

    Maybe we should just go it alone, and not have to spend Billions on WMD programmes. We could maybe have a couple of ships patrolling OUR waters.

  20. #49
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John_R_Corbett View Post
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    Suppose that's what you get when you listen to the Biased Broadcasting Corporation. Their radio is no different to the TV, instead of rigged audiences full of plants, just a queue of yoon trolls on the phone instead. Don't waste your time, you'll hear nothing good.
    I reckon somehow MI5 have infiltrated the Kaye Adams show, what else could explain the clearly outrageous notion that people may critise the government. Never acceptable when the people dare question the government.

  21. #50
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    But none of the above has anything to do with, or says anything about how successful, or not, the policy has been.

    Still, the SNP came up with it, so it must be unqestionably good eh?
    I don't know if I'd say the SNP came up with it.

    Finland came up with it, it has been overwhelmingly popular and successful there so the SNP thought it would be worth a try here.

    (Cue everyone very predictably getting into their usual bunkers instead of forming an opinion based on the merit of the idea).

    I'm open minded on it, and with a baby due in February we'll be getting one.

    If it's an idea that doesn't work here in practice then we can always bin it.

  22. #51
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    But none of the above has anything to do with, or says anything about how successful, or not, the policy has been.

    Still, the SNP came up with it, so it must be unqestionably good eh?
    Wrong again. They borrowed the idea, and implemented a policy to help people. #pwoud

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Wrong again. They borrowed the idea, and implemented a policy to help people. #pwoud
    What?? So its not an SNP policy? Somebody should tell Shona Robison quick...

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    Coaching Staff -Jonesy-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    But none of the above has anything to do with, or says anything about how successful, or not, the policy has been.

    Still, the SNP came up with it, so it must be unqestionably good eh?
    You wouldn't happen to be right in the middle of that grumpy ven diagram would you?

    I stick by my guns, indefensible is right!
    It's social healthcare, do you think the smallpox vaccine was a waste of resources? Cancer research? Infection control?

    I haven't heard any argument against the baby box here or anywhere else that doesn't reek of anti SNP agenda at any cost. None of these people seem to have any realistic alternative of where to spend £8m that would make a difference to infant mortality rate as has been proved in Finland for over 80 years.

    Just another p1sspoor stick to beat the sitting SG with, absolutely childish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by -Jonesy- View Post
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    You wouldn't happen to be right in the middle of that grumpy ven diagram would you?

    I stick by my guns, indefensible is right!
    It's social healthcare, do you think the smallpox vaccine was a waste of resources? Cancer research? Infection control?

    I haven't heard any argument against the baby box here or anywhere else that doesn't reek of anti SNP agenda at any cost. None of these people seem to have any realistic alternative of where to spend £8m that would make a difference to infant mortality rate as has been proved in Finland for over 80 years.

    Just another p1sspoor stick to beat the sitting SG with, absolutely childish.
    Smallpox vaccines (and all vaccines) have proven efficacy, and have to be assessed by the JCVI (i think) and prove their cost effectiveness after years or clinical trials.

    Cancer research likewise, is funded based on results - good researchers and institutions get money, bad ones dont. But incidentally, i do wonder how many cancer medicines could be paid for with that 9m annnually?

    Im not and never have been against this policy- I started the initial thread to discuss it.

    Im all for early interventions where they are shown to work. You talk about a stick with which to beat government, on the contrary my concern with this is that it is being trumpeted as a success for political reasons.

    My point is nobody (naysayers or supporters) can possibly know if it has been successful yet, because there is zero proper data yet to assess. Claiming its success on nothing other than people like getting things for free is no better than saying the methodone programme is unquestionably successful because junkies like taking it - without looking at the success rate in reducing crime, getting people off their addiction etc.

    So i guess i would be on the agnostic bit of your venn diagram, with a very much 'lets wait and see' attitude. And i also believe no aspect of government policy can ever be beyond question, because that would lead to absolutism. Governments are supposed to be endlessly questioned, criticised, scrutinised and held to account. It is not anti-SNP, it is the democratic sysyem working how it is supposed to.

  26. #55
    Coaching Staff -Jonesy-'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Smallpox vaccines (and all vaccines) have proven efficacy, and have to be assessed by the JCVI (i think) and prove their cost effectiveness after years or clinical trials.

    Cancer research likewise, is funded based on results - good researchers and institutions get money, bad ones dont. But incidentally, i do wonder how many cancer medicines could be paid for with that 9m annnually?

    Im not and never have been against this policy- I started the initial thread to discuss it.

    Im all for early interventions where they are shown to work. You talk about a stick with which to beat government, on the contrary my concern with this is that it is being trumpeted as a success for political reasons.

    My point is nobody (naysayers or supporters) can possibly know if it has been successful yet, because there is zero proper data yet to assess. Claiming its success on nothing other than people like getting things for free is no better than saying the methodone programme is unquestionably successful because junkies like taking it - without looking at the success rate in reducing crime, getting people off their addiction etc.

    So i guess i would be on the agnostic bit of your venn diagram, with a very much 'lets wait and see' attitude. And i also believe no aspect of government policy can ever be beyond question, because that would lead to absolutism. Governments are supposed to be endlessly questioned, criticised, scrutinised and held to account. It is not anti-SNP, it is the democratic sysyem working how it is supposed to.
    It's still too early in the morning for me to make such a reasoned and well worded argument as yourself (and well done btw) but for me there is no argument against a national health initiative such as this other than the potential cost, and as it's so small and the effect, or potential benefit at least, so instant and direct I can't see any reason to critiscise it other than throwing the political toys out the pram, or ear thermometer out the box as it were.

    As a (fairly) young adult with a baby on the way, as someone who has always worked and never been well off and as someone who has seen the opportunities afforded to previous generations slowly taken away (jobs, mortgages, bloody brexit) I think this is a genuinely great step for helping the next generation and will be most welcome in my family.

  27. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Jonesy- View Post
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    It's still too early in the morning for me to make such a reasoned and well worded argument as yourself (and well done btw) but for me there is no argument against a national health initiative such as this other than the potential cost, and as it's so small and the effect, or potential benefit at least, so instant and direct I can't see any reason to critiscise it other than throwing the political toys out the pram, or ear thermometer out the box as it were.

    As a (fairly) young adult with a baby on the way, as someone who has always worked and never been well off and as someone who has seen the opportunities afforded to previous generations slowly taken away (jobs, mortgages, bloody brexit) I think this is a genuinely great step for helping the next generation and will be most welcome in my family.
    Good luck with the wee one - you will be well placed to judge the programme soon!

  28. #57
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    What?? So its not an SNP policy? Somebody should tell Shona Robison quick...
    If your going to hold your government to account, you'd be best going to the right person. 😂👌

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    If your going to hold your government to account, you'd be best going to the right person. 😂👌
    Somebody should tell the Presiding Officer too then, because she has answered questions in parliament about them 😉
    (Question no S5W-06139 for example)

  30. #59
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Somebody should tell the Presiding Officer too then, because she has answered questions in parliament about them 😉
    (Question no S5W-06139 for example)
    Marie Todd, if you want to send a strongly written letter. 😂

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Marie Todd, if you want to send a strongly written letter. 😂
    Aahh, so it IS an SNP policy. Thanks for correcting your previous disinformation.

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