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Thread: Baby Box

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    Baby Box

    The contents of the new baby box have been released -

    Includes clothes, digital ear themometer, books, mattress, towel, changing mat amd the box is also a bed.

    Im a bit torn on this - while it makes me despair for the kind of people habing babies that these things need to be provided by the state, its still better that a baby has this stuff than doesnt.

    However, to not means test it, or limit it to the first child seems a bit wasteful.

    What do people think?


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  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    The contents of the new baby box have been released -

    Includes clothes, digital ear themometer, books, mattress, towel, changing mat amd the box is also a bed.

    Im a bit torn on this - while it makes me despair for the kind of people habing babies that these things need to be provided by the state, its still better that a baby has this stuff than doesnt.

    However, to not means test it, or limit it to the first child seems a bit wasteful.

    What do people think?
    Some of those things can be (and normally are) handed down, so it might be a bit of a waste to give them to every subsequent baby.

    As for means-testing, it's a bit like the argument for means-testing for prescription charges and bus-passes.... the costs of maintaining such a system might be more than the benefits.
    Last edited by CropleyWasGod; 19-06-2017 at 01:57 PM.

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    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    The contents of the new baby box have been released -

    Includes clothes, digital ear themometer, books, mattress, towel, changing mat amd the box is also a bed.

    Im a bit torn on this - while it makes me despair for the kind of people habing babies that these things need to be provided by the state, its still better that a baby has this stuff than doesnt.

    However, to not means test it, or limit it to the first child seems a bit wasteful.

    What do people think?
    Its sometime easier to promote universal benefits and they don't have a stigma attached as a result.

    Sounds like a good idea. When my wee boy was born he was a tiny 4lb and the hospital wouldn't even supply nappies or cotton wool for the couple of days he was kept in!!

  5. #4
    I take it people can refuse them if they don't need it?

    My girlfriend is due our 1st child 9 weeks today. We're fortunate in that we can afford the essentials and luxuries ourselves and with help from family. I'd genuinely feel a bit embarrassed taking a box that contains a lot of stuff we already have. I'd rather someone in genuine need got 2.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    Its sometime easier to promote universal benefits and they don't have a stigma attached as a result.

    Sounds like a good idea. When my wee boy was born he was a tiny 4lb and the hospital wouldn't even supply nappies or cotton wool for the couple of days he was kept in!!
    Yeah fair point, i just wonder if its a luxury (universal benefits) that we could do without?

    Im not sure i know anyone who would let their new born baby sleep in a cardboard box either...

    The point about admin could well be right too.

    However you habr to register to receive it, so i think it may br self selecting anyway (dont think i would register if i had a second)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    I take it people can refuse them if they don't need it?

    My girlfriend is due our 1st child 9 weeks today. We're fortunate in that we can afford the essentials and luxuries ourselves and with help from family. I'd genuinely feel a bit embarrassed taking a box that contains a lot of stuff we already have. I'd rather someone in genuine need got 2.
    I think you hsbe to register to get it, so in effect you can refuse it.

    You might quite like the idea of putting thr lid on the box if the baby doesnt sleep though...!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    The contents of the new baby box have been released -

    Includes clothes, digital ear themometer, books, mattress, towel, changing mat amd the box is also a bed.

    Im a bit torn on this - while it makes me despair for the kind of people habing babies that these things need to be provided by the state, its still better that a baby has this stuff than doesnt.

    However, to not means test it, or limit it to the first child seems a bit wasteful.

    What do people think?
    I read somewhere recently that there actually is very little hard evidence that baby boxes have any determinable effect and that they are more a politicians popular plaything than a scientifically proven method of improving child mortality rates...might have been a Bloomberg article I can't remember and if I get a chance I'll see if I can find it.

    Anyway it seems like a waste of money to give these to everyone...why not just make them available to anyone who wants it rather than automatically handing one out to parents of every child?

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    Coaching Staff snooky's Avatar
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    Contents of proposed baby box: One bottle of Buckie, 20 fags, a deep fried Mars bar supper and a Braveheart DVD.
    Sorted!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Yeah fair point, i just wonder if its a luxury (universal benefits) that we could do without?

    Im not sure i know anyone who would let their new born baby sleep in a cardboard box either...

    The point about admin could well be right too.

    However you habr to register to receive it, so i think it may br self selecting anyway (dont think i would register if i had a second)
    Comes in quite handy if your infant needs constant monitoring or suffers broken sleep. You can have the child close by in the parents bedroom without making space for a cot or baby bed. And after all, it may be "a cardboard box" but it wasn't used to transport dog food or fabric softener before they hand it out. These have been in use in Finland for some time and have proven popular with new parents and medical professionals. So apart from the political angle do you have any other points to make?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geo_1875 View Post
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    Comes in quite handy if your infant needs constant monitoring or suffers broken sleep. You can have the child close by in the parents bedroom without making space for a cot or baby bed.
    I thought these boxes were only used as "beds" for the first 3 months, much like how a lot of parents will use a Moses basket or bassinet for the same reasons you list above.
    Beyond 3 months I doubt the box would be of much use.

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    Ahh here it is...a BBC follow up

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-39366596

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    Is it Finland that they already supply these boxes?

    I remember seeing a feature on them a while back and thinking they looked about 50 years out of date but by all accounts they are very popular, hugely successful and are very good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geo_1875 View Post
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    Comes in quite handy if your infant needs constant monitoring or suffers broken sleep. You can have the child close by in the parents bedroom without making space for a cot or baby bed. And after all, it may be "a cardboard box" but it wasn't used to transport dog food or fabric softener before they hand it out. These have been in use in Finland for some time and have proven popular with new parents and medical professionals. So apart from the political angle do you have any other points to make?
    Sorry, am i not allowed an opinion?

    Ive made quite a few points above, i think you will find.

    Well speaking for myself, neither me nor particuarly my mrs would have allowed my child to sleep in a box. Im asuming it is to provide a bed for children whose parents dont, as opposed to being for any specific safety or efficiacy reasons, but i stand to be corrected on that.

    Im not saying im anti the while idea, despite your comments - just that it seems like waste of resources to give it to everybody, although as i said above i suspect that will be self-selecting as you have to register. I suspect that many will decline the offer of a cardboard box for their child to sleep in.

    The books were already provided by the SG too, i remembet getting them.

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    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    I finished having kids 20 years ago, as far as I'm aware!

    I remember being showered with stuff by various companies.

    Maybe a lot of this stuff is sponsored.
    Space to let

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    The baby box will be seen as a great start for our new-borns in the future. People don't need to take them. Everyone gets a help in hand if they need it.

    I only wish someone had the foresight to do this when I had my bairns.

    If you don't need it, don't register.

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    Seems a good initiative while we still have the unfortunate situation whereby people require these essentials.

    As for universal benefits - I think means testing should only be applied when the benefits are for adults, and even then only if the administrative burden is worth it.

    Particularly if it's opt in I see no issue.

    Good point raised above about sponsorship, would be a good way to save some money and good PR for the company if so.
    Mon the Hibs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    I read somewhere recently that there actually is very little hard evidence that baby boxes have any determinable effect and that they are more a politicians popular plaything than a scientifically proven method of improving child mortality rates...might have been a Bloomberg article I can't remember and if I get a chance I'll see if I can find it.

    Anyway it seems like a waste of money to give these to everyone...why not just make them available to anyone who wants it rather than automatically handing one out to parents of every child?
    they arent automatically handed out, you have to register with your midwife to get one, luckily we dont need one but for those who dont have a lot of money they will be a welcome addition

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    Quote Originally Posted by superhibi1 View Post
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    they arent automatically handed out, you have to register with your midwife to get one, luckily we dont need one but for those who dont have a lot of money they will be a welcome addition
    Cool thanks for the clarification, that at least makes sense.

    Still at 160 per box and a cost of almost 9m per year I would have hoped for more conclusive evidence that this was the best way to spend the money.

    And shock horror it appears the scheme is contracted out to a private company...tsk tsk

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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    Contents of proposed baby box: One bottle of Buckie, 20 fags, a deep fried Mars bar supper and a Braveheart DVD.
    Sorted!
    Never knew there was a healthy option...sign me up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by superhibi1 View Post
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    they arent automatically handed out, you have to register with your midwife to get one, luckily we dont need one but for those who dont have a lot of money they will be a welcome addition
    Yeah i think this is the crux of it. SG habe been quite clever as it will effectively be means tested to am extent, without the bureaucratic mess. And those who would benefit will still get them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Cool thanks for the clarification, that at least makes sense.

    Still at 160 per box and a cost of almost 9m per year I would have hoped for more conclusive evidence that this was the best way to spend the money.

    And shock horror it appears the scheme is contracted out to a private company...tsk tsk
    would save a hell of a lot of money as well wouldn't we if those from a less fortunate backround or those in "working poverty" just didn't have kids eh

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    Quote Originally Posted by pacoluna View Post
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    would save a hell of a lot of money as well wouldn't we if those from a less fortunate backround or those in "working poverty" just didn't have kids eh
    Wow that some leap...where did I even remotely suggest any of that p ish?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Wow that some leap...where did I even remotely suggest any of that p ish?
    its not directly aimed towards you.

    Only those who believe that p*sh will question whether initiatives like this are worth a percentage of our tax however.
    Last edited by pacoluna; 20-06-2017 at 02:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pacoluna View Post
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    its not directly aimed towards you.

    Only those who believe that p*sh will question whether initiatives like this are worth a percentage of our tax however.
    Not sure why you quoted me then.

    Anyway as to your point I disagree completely...multi million pound initiatives should where possible be based on fact and proven outcomes, where they are not then people should be allowed to question.

    I've not looked at it too deeply but from what I have read I'm not totally convinced this initiative is actually based on facts and proven outcomes and plenty of others (and the report I linked) have asked the same question.

    That's not to say the money shouldn't be spent nor that given children from poorer backgrounds the best start possible isn't a priority but surely people are allowed to ask if those aims and priorities are being addressed in the most effective way without your type of response.

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    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Not sure why you quoted me then.

    Anyway as to your point I disagree completely...multi million pound initiatives should where possible be based on fact and proven outcomes, where they are not then people should be allowed to question.

    I've not looked at it too deeply but from what I have read I'm not totally convinced this initiative is actually based on facts and proven outcomes and plenty of others (and the report I linked) have asked the same question.

    That's not to say the money shouldn't be spent nor that given children from poorer backgrounds the best start possible isn't a priority but surely people are allowed to ask if those aims and priorities are being addressed in the most effective way without your type of response.
    Presumably, the SG have conducted their own due diligence to come to their decision. I'm not sure if they've been challenged on that though, as to do so might appear mean-spirited by the other political parties.

    It is, however, one way of getting around the inability of the SG to fundamentally change the benefits system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Presumably, the SG have conducted their own due diligence to come to their decision. I'm not sure if they've been challenged on that though, as to do so might appear mean-spirited by the other political parties.

    It is, however, one way of getting around the inability of the SG to fundamentally change the benefits system.
    They ran a limited trial from what I could see.

    Don't get me wrong it could be a very worthwhile exercise and in principle I have nothing against it but Paco's post just sums the level of a lot of 'debate' just now and reminded me why I don't bother even trying most of the time these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CropleyWasGod View Post
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    Presumably, the SG have conducted their own due diligence to come to their decision. I'm not sure if they've been challenged on that though, as to do so might appear mean-spirited by the other political parties.

    It is, however, one way of getting around the inability of the SG to fundamentally change the benefits system.
    What annoys me most is that it is even deemed necessary to habe something like this, and that it is being trumpeted as a good thing. Clearly there is something wrong with people, and with society if these things are necessary.

    That being said, we are where we are and if they help a few wee babies have a better start, then thats a good thing. Im not sure it will undo the untold damage of some feckless parents, but the govt can only do so much.

    And by making it an opt-in system, they are cleverly making it not universal in application, which i think is a smart move.

    But when the govt has to providr cardboard boxes for babies to sleep in, something has gone very wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    They ran a limited trial from what I could see.

    Don't get me wrong it could be a very worthwhile exercise and in principle I have nothing against it but Paco's post just sums the level of a lot of 'debate' just now and reminded me why I don't bother even trying most of the time these days.
    They will help tackle deprivation, improve health and support parents who require the support. Its all part of the overhaul of the Scottish childcare system and is in their manifesto. Giving our current political climate I struggle to understand why anyone would want to debate the costing of this kind of implementation. It can only bring benefits. One small positive in the current political **** storm that we live in.
    Last edited by pacoluna; 20-06-2017 at 09:24 PM.

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