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  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by steakbake View Post
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    We might be, we might not... ?!
    Don't know about now but in the Combat 18 days there were plenty being watched.


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  3. #32
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Ben Wallace Security Minister: "This isn't a hate crime. It's an act of terrorism. Simple as that."

    An act of terrorism is also a hate crime, not all hate crimes are acts of terrorism.
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    Definition of terrorism "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

    Definition of Hate Crime "a crime motivated by racial, sexual, or other prejudice, typically one involving violence."
    By all accounts the main suspect said something like "I've done my job." as he was being arrested. That sounds to me like he might have political aims.
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  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    People like this idiot seem to think that doing stuff like this is some sort of payback. It isn't and he's just as bad as any other terrorist. Killing innocent people never has any justification.
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  6. #35
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    Sadly, there are enough warped minds in society who are prepared to go from unpleasant views to violence. Ramming vehicles into civilians is a low tech way of carrying out attacks. You can only think there is more to come.
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  7. #36
    @hibs.net private member Mikey's Avatar
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    Have his family and friends been hauled in for questioning? That's what happens when the shoe is on the other foot!

  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member easty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikey View Post
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    Have his family and friends been hauled in for questioning? That's what happens when the shoe is on the other foot!
    True.

    I remember after the Lee Rigby killing, maybe 3-4 days later, one of the rags (possibly Daily Mail) had a story about one of the killers sisters. She's had the audacity to be caught laughing in public. They had no idea what she was laughing at of course, but that didn't matter. Comments section was absolutely teeming with people who thought she should be thrown out the country.

    I wonder if this guy from London this morning has a family, and if any of them dare to laugh this week?

    I've gone off on a bit of a tangent to your point me thinks...

  9. #38
    The whole media reporting of this is quite telling. After the Manchester and London Bridge attacks there was pretty much no other news reported for 3 or 4 days. Has this been consistent? As an example after Manchester Forth 1 suspended all their regular morning features as it was 'inappropriate'. Today the headline on the news was about a campaign about motorbikes in Edinburgh and the attack in London was relegated to 2nd place.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    The whole media reporting of this is quite telling. After the Manchester and London Bridge attacks there was pretty much no other news reported for 3 or 4 days. Has this been consistent? As an example after Manchester Forth 1 suspended all their regular morning features as it was 'inappropriate'. Today the headline on the news was about a campaign about motorbikes in Edinburgh and the attack in London was relegated to 2nd place.
    I do take your point.

    I guess the scale of the attacks will influence the reporting too. 1 person died in Finsbury Park, 22 died in Manchester and the nature of the violence was so grotesque.
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  11. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    I do take your point.

    I guess the scale of the attacks will influence the reporting too. 1 person died in Finsbury Park, 22 died in Manchester and the nature of the violence was so grotesque.
    Correct , id imagine if someone had bombed Finsbury park mosque and killed a load of children the reporting would be more intense

  12. #41
    Administrator hibee_girl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    The whole media reporting of this is quite telling. After the Manchester and London Bridge attacks there was pretty much no other news reported for 3 or 4 days. Has this been consistent? As an example after Manchester Forth 1 suspended all their regular morning features as it was 'inappropriate'. Today the headline on the news was about a campaign about motorbikes in Edinburgh and the attack in London was relegated to 2nd place.
    I read something earlier which said it has to reported differently as he's still alive and able to face trial.

  13. #42
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    I was never much of a hippy, but a lot of the news recently made me think how rubbish it is that John Lennon isn't around anymore. If we ever needed some sort of peace movement it's now. Do musicians even write about contemporary issues these days? (possible thread hijack).

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    Quote Originally Posted by hibee_girl View Post
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    I read something earlier which said it has to reported differently as he's still alive and able to face trial.
    This is a very important point - quite severe restrictions arpund reporting on this, as unlike most attacks these days, there will be a legal process - arrests, questioning, charging and of course a trial - technically the guy is still innocent (as weird as that is).

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    I was never much of a hippy, but a lot of the news recently made me think how rubbish it is that John Lennon isn't around anymore. If we ever needed some sort of peace movement it's now. Do musicians even write about contemporary issues these days? (possible thread hijack).
    Things arent all that bad in a historical sense - dont let it cloud your outlook, unlike previous generations we dont libe with the spectre of world war, civil war on our own islands and a huge, hulking menace lurking to our east (well maybe we still habe that last one...)

    We are lucky to live where and when we do, i always try to remind myself of that.

  16. #45
    Coaching Staff Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibee_girl View Post
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    I read something earlier which said it has to reported differently as he's still alive and able to face trial.
    Good point.
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  17. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibee_girl View Post
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    I read something earlier which said it has to reported differently as he's still alive and able to face trial.
    Very good point and a major difference in how things can be reported.

    The press will have strict guidelines on what they can and can't say about this guy until he has had his trial. They won't be able to report anything which may prejudice the outcome of a trial.

    With the recent attacks in Manchester and London, the suspects were deceased so that would have followed an entirely different process.
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  18. #47
    @hibs.net private member Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    I was never much of a hippy, but a lot of the news recently made me think how rubbish it is that John Lennon isn't around anymore. If we ever needed some sort of peace movement it's now. Do musicians even write about contemporary issues these days? (possible thread hijack).
    A lot of the bands I listen to are very vocally active in terms of their politics and other such views. Architects are a great British example.

    Your wider point is a good one though - some form of influential arts movement that harnesses a lot of the good in our society, would be a welcome injection right now. It doesn't even need to be arts I suppose, but you see what big events can do for us societally - look at the concert following Manchester. Look back to the Olympics etc...a country united and social attitudes were warm and welcoming. All we seem to have presently is anger and despair. Her Majesty was quite right - the national mood is very sombre just now.

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Things arent all that bad in a historical sense - dont let it cloud your outlook, unlike previous generations we dont libe with the spectre of world war, civil war on our own islands and a huge, hulking menace lurking to our east (well maybe we still habe that last one...)

    We are lucky to live where and when we do, i always try to remind myself of that.
    I disagree that we don't live with a genuine spectre of war, either at home or abroad just now. Tension exists in various guises all across the world, and we're one major incident away from the chain reaction - e.g., the escalating rhetoric between Russia/Syria and the US; the continued sabre-rattling and defiance from NK; continued large-scale terror attacks at home and abroad - eventually, something will give and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see war in my lifetime. And civil war on our own islands - do you really think we're so far from that? Look at the growing levels of rage and disunity in our society - look at the polarisation between north/south, rich/poor, nationalist/unionist. Given everything that's going on in our nation just now, again, we're not far removed from the spark that could set off significant civil unrest.

    I guess I'm feeling nihilistic this evening!

    On another note, I see the family of this Osbourne chap are now saying he's a 'disturbed' individual, but not racist. I knew it wouldn't take long for his mental wellbeing to come under the spotlight - it's so painfully predictable.
    Okay, technically I'm a serial killer...

  19. #48
    @hibs.net private member silverhibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    A lot of the bands I listen to are very vocally active in terms of their politics and other such views. Architects are a great British example.

    Your wider point is a good one though - some form of influential arts movement that harnesses a lot of the good in our society, would be a welcome injection right now. It doesn't even need to be arts I suppose, but you see what big events can do for us societally - look at the concert following Manchester. Look back to the Olympics etc...a country united and social attitudes were warm and welcoming. All we seem to have presently is anger and despair. Her Majesty was quite right - the national mood is very sombre just now.



    I disagree that we don't live with a genuine spectre of war, either at home or abroad just now. Tension exists in various guises all across the world, and we're one major incident away from the chain reaction - e.g., the escalating rhetoric between Russia/Syria and the US; the continued sabre-rattling and defiance from NK; continued large-scale terror attacks at home and abroad - eventually, something will give and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see war in my lifetime. And civil war on our own islands - do you really think we're so far from that? Look at the growing levels of rage and disunity in our society - look at the polarisation between north/south, rich/poor, nationalist/unionist. Given everything that's going on in our nation just now, again, we're not far removed from the spark that could set off significant civil unrest.

    I guess I'm feeling nihilistic this evening!

    On another note, I see the family of this Osbourne chap are now saying he's a 'disturbed' individual, but not racist. I knew it wouldn't take long for his mental wellbeing to come under the spotlight - it's so painfully predictable.
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  20. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    A lot of the bands I listen to are very vocally active in terms of their politics and other such views. Architects are a great British example.

    Your wider point is a good one though - some form of influential arts movement that harnesses a lot of the good in our society, would be a welcome injection right now. It doesn't even need to be arts I suppose, but you see what big events can do for us societally - look at the concert following Manchester. Look back to the Olympics etc...a country united and social attitudes were warm and welcoming. All we seem to have presently is anger and despair. Her Majesty was quite right - the national mood is very sombre just now.



    I disagree that we don't live with a genuine spectre of war, either at home or abroad just now. Tension exists in various guises all across the world, and we're one major incident away from the chain reaction - e.g., the escalating rhetoric between Russia/Syria and the US; the continued sabre-rattling and defiance from NK; continued large-scale terror attacks at home and abroad - eventually, something will give and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see war in my lifetime. And civil war on our own islands - do you really think we're so far from that? Look at the growing levels of rage and disunity in our society - look at the polarisation between north/south, rich/poor, nationalist/unionist. Given everything that's going on in our nation just now, again, we're not far removed from the spark that could set off significant civil unrest.

    I guess I'm feeling nihilistic this evening!

    On another note, I see the family of this Osbourne chap are now saying he's a 'disturbed' individual, but not racist. I knew it wouldn't take long for his mental wellbeing to come under the spotlight - it's so painfully predictable.
    You are right about the mental health point, very predictable.

    I disagree about your outlook though. We arr, imo, a million miles from civil war in this country.

    Yeah there will undoubtedly be foreign wars, it was ever thus, but i still feel now and here are a good time and a good place to be alive, even if it doesnt always feel like it.

  21. #50
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    A lot of the bands I listen to are very vocally active in terms of their politics and other such views. Architects are a great British example.

    Your wider point is a good one though - some form of influential arts movement that harnesses a lot of the good in our society, would be a welcome injection right now. It doesn't even need to be arts I suppose, but you see what big events can do for us societally - look at the concert following Manchester. Look back to the Olympics etc...a country united and social attitudes were warm and welcoming. All we seem to have presently is anger and despair. Her Majesty was quite right - the national mood is very sombre just now.



    I disagree that we don't live with a genuine spectre of war, either at home or abroad just now. Tension exists in various guises all across the world, and we're one major incident away from the chain reaction - e.g., the escalating rhetoric between Russia/Syria and the US; the continued sabre-rattling and defiance from NK; continued large-scale terror attacks at home and abroad - eventually, something will give and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see war in my lifetime. And civil war on our own islands - do you really think we're so far from that? Look at the growing levels of rage and disunity in our society - look at the polarisation between north/south, rich/poor, nationalist/unionist. Given everything that's going on in our nation just now, again, we're not far removed from the spark that could set off significant civil unrest.

    I guess I'm feeling nihilistic this evening!

    On another note, I see the family of this Osbourne chap are now saying he's a 'disturbed' individual, but not racist. I knew it wouldn't take long for his mental wellbeing to come under the spotlight - it's so painfully predictable.
    I've just read the article linked below, nice of The Sun to help his defence team out by constructing the 'mad not bad' plea in the minds of the jury in advance of the trial

    Good point about the One Love concert in Manchester, I was surprised that I watched it with my daughter and even more surprised i found it moving and poignant, since it was designed to appeal to her generation and not mine. Hopeful.

  22. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    You are right about the mental health point, very predictable.
    Quite coincidentally one of the characters on last Thursday nights ep of Quantico made a very similar comment re the reporting of similar incidents in the USA. I only watched it yesterday and this thread instantly came to mind. Life imitating art I suppose.

  23. #52
    @hibs.net private member CapitalGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    Definition of terrorism "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims."

    Definition of Hate Crime "a crime motivated by racial, sexual, or other prejudice, typically one involving violence."
    The Police have charged Darren Osborne with terrorism-related murder. It appears they disagree with your opinion that this was merely a hate-crime.

  24. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapitalGreen View Post
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    The Police have charged Darren Osborne with terrorism-related murder. It appears they disagree with your opinion that this was merely a hate-crime.
    It will be interesting to see how this plays out in court but there is nothing 'merely' about hate crime, both hate crime and terrorism are both equally terrible crimes to the victim.

  25. #54
    @hibs.net private member CapitalGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    It will be interesting to see how this plays out in court but there is nothing 'merely' about hate crime, both hate crime and terrorism are both equally terrible crimes to the victim.
    *Victims

    Unfortunately, there was multiple in this abhorrent attack.

  26. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapitalGreen View Post
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    *Victims

    Unfortunately, there was multiple in this abhorrent attack.
    Excuse me! Yes of course and I think the government especially will view this as a terrorist attack as it will allow them to bring in more laws to combat it.

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