Hearts' New Stand Thread (Merged)

[Mr White]

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FoH say they are not trading but HMRC rules consider them to be trading. I am the Company Secretary of such an organisation so I see your exam marking credentials and raise you my legal status.

Oooft.. hit him with your IQ now while he's on the ropes

[malcolm]

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It's active, but it's not trading. There is a big difference.

Tax students answer exam questions on this kind of stuff. The better ones can tell the difference between trading, active and dormant. I can too, as I mark the ICAS final tax exams.:)

FOH is not trading.

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You are admirably patient, tolerant and not a bit condescending even if that might be expected to be concomitant in such circumstances

[McD]

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FoH say they are not trading but HMRC rules consider them to be trading. I am the Company Secretary of such an organisation so I see your exam marking credentials and raise you my legal status.

You have a real bee in your bonnet about this... given FOH have been in existence for a few years now, don’t you think someone at HMRC would have looked at them by now, if there was something to look at.

btw, to the total lay person (me), it seems like you’re mixing up your descriptions. The HMRC regs you’ve quoted only refer to the word ‘active’, not the word ‘trading’. All you’ve proved is that they are active, not that they are trading.

either way, I doubt much will change for them in the next wee while anyway, hope you’re having a nice festive period

[hibbyfraelibby]

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Oooft.. hit him with your IQ now while he's on the ropes

That would be below the belt such is its magnitude😊

[CropleyWasGod]

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FoH say they are not trading but HMRC rules consider them to be trading. I am the Company Secretary of such an organisation so I see your exam marking credentials and raise you my legal status.

Which HMRC rules are they? You quoted HMRC guidance on what constitutes an "active" company, not a "trading" one. As i say, there is a big difference.

Whether a business, incorporated or not, is trading, depends on a number of factors. These are known as the Badges of Trade, and it is the cumulative assessment of these which will determine whether a business is trading or not.

Do you think that Scott-Moncrieff, albeit not auditors, would prepare a set of accounts with such a blatant lie as "the company is not trading" in them? If so, do you want ICAS' number?

[Carheenlea]

Financial expertise on a subject is all well and good, but I preferred the funny pictures.

[Mr White]

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You have a real bee in your bonnet about this... given FOH have been in existence for a few years now, don’t you think someone at HMRC would have looked at them by now, if there was something to look at.

btw, to the total pay person (me), it seems like you’re mixing up your descriptions. The HMRC regs you’ve quoted only refer to the word ‘active’, not the word ‘trading’. All you’ve proved is that they are active, not that they are trading.

either way, I doubt much will change for them in the next wee while anyway, hope you’re having a nice festive period

The club also appointed some high profile tax lawyer to their board of directors a year or so ago didn't they?

While I'd love to see them make a mess of their tax affairs (again) in the same way they've mucked up building their new stand, I doubt it's going to happen over this.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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You have a real bee in your bonnet about this... given FOH have been in existence for a few years now, don’t you think someone at HMRC would have looked at them by now, if there was something to look at.

btw, to the total lay person (me), it seems like you’re mixing up your descriptions. The HMRC regs you’ve quoted only refer to the word ‘active’, not the word ‘trading’. All you’ve proved is that they are active, not that they are trading.

either way, I doubt much will change for them in the next wee while anyway, hope you’re having a nice festive period

The point I am making is relevant to that time in the future when ownership changes. Hector will be watching to see if tax is being avoided or evaded.

[CropleyWasGod]

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The point I am making is relevant to that time in the future when ownership changes. Hector will be watching to see if tax is being avoided or evaded.

What would HMRC do? Conversion of reserves to equity is not taxable.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Financial expertise on a subject is all well and good, but I preferred the funny pictures.

Trust me, so do I

[Firestarter]

Their support are putting a hell of a lot more than hours for **** all really only to help the club. If only our fans where as passionate about funding our club as they are about way Hearts have cheated.

[greenginger]

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The "loan" hasn't been written off by HMFC, though, which is the important thing. If they went belly-up tomorrow, that money would still be legally due to FOH, regardless of whether they had written it off in their own accounts, and regardless of whether they made a claim to it.

Eventually, it will be converted to shares, which is the ultimate form of loan, albeit worthless in FOH's eyes.

The difference between this situation and the one you use as an example is that, in yours, both companies are (I assume) trading. FOH doesn't trade and is, therefore, not subject to Corporation Tax or Income Tax on written-off loans.

My company's status was changed to non-trading a few years ago because majority of the business turnover is rental income and investment income.

I can assure you the company has a Corporation Tax bill to settle every year .

[JohnMcM]

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Could you two get a room? This is a rubbish spectator sport...

You may have just posted the last really funny thing on here in 2017.

[CropleyWasGod]

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My company's status was changed to non-trading a few years ago because majority of the business turnover is rental income and investment income.

I can assure you the company has a Corporation Tax bill to settle every year .

Tax on rental and investment income, of course, and that's correct.

But the point at hand is that FOH isn't trading, and has no taxable income. As such, it is outwith the scope of Corporation Tax.

As an aside, it makes losses. Even it it were trading, there would be no tax to pay.

[hibbyfraelibby]

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What would HMRC do? Conversion of reserves to equity is not taxable.

But they are not converting reserves to equity are they, they are currently making loans.

Anyway enough for now . Have a good new year when it comes as there are bound to be lots of new funny pictures to laugh at.

[CropleyWasGod]

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But they are not converting reserves to equity are they, they are currently making loans.

Anyway enough for now . Have a good new year when it comes as there are bound to be lots of new funny pictures to laugh at.

HMFC are making the conversion.

[Deansy]

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Their support are putting a hell of a lot more than hours for **** all really only to help the club. If only our fans where as passionate about funding our club as they are about way Hearts have cheated.

It's totally different circumstances - their support had to put their money in to save their club from going out of existence after it's decades of 'Other People's Money' !. Our club - properly, professionally and honestly run - isn't under any threat, there's not the same vital urgency.

[Thecat23]

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Their support are putting a hell of a lot more than hours for **** all really only to help the club. If only our fans where as passionate about funding our club as they are about way Hearts have cheated.

Only because it was/is to keep them afloat. Look at Hands Off Hibs, if we ever needed it we’d easily make the money to help the club.

[pacorosssco]

always dodgy stuff going on at hearts.

[Mantis Toboggan]

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Only because it was/is to keep them afloat. Look at Hands Off Hibs, if we ever needed it we’d easily make the money to help the club.

Exactly. They were at deaths door.
Still doesn't explain the literal cash cow. Nothing can justify that.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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Their support are putting a hell of a lot more than hours for **** all really only to help the club. If only our fans where as passionate about funding our club as they are about way Hearts have cheated.

I'm ashamed to be a Hibs fan sometimes, utterly ashamed. Look at all the clubs who have a better set up than HSL, there's Hearts and then there's erm, there's um .... sorry, I should have done some research, I'm sure there are loads out there.

But anyway, bang on Firestarter .... Just because Hibs aren't at deaths door that doesn't mean to say that folk like me who have bought shares, buy a measly £400 season ticket every year and spend about another £300 just getting to games shouldn't be digging deeper to fund the club. The one good thing is that in our very own city we have a set of fans to look up to.

[Thecat23]

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Exactly. They were at deaths door.
Still doesn't explain the literal cash cow. Nothing can justify that.

Yeah the cash cow is just weird! 😂

[SuperAllyMcleod]

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Could you two get a room? This is a rubbish spectator sport...

I agree, I used to really enjoy this thread.

[Heisenberg]

The cash cow really got me, it was hilarious. Just absolute begging from them, trying to get everything and anything they can out of their own fans as they didn’t have enough for the new stand on their own.

[Keith_M]

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Financial expertise on a subject is all well and good, but I preferred the funny pictures.

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Trust me, so do I

OK....

[CropleyWasGod]

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OK....

Finally, someone gets it.

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[BSEJVT]

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I'm ashamed to be a Hibs fan sometimes, utterly ashamed. Look at all the clubs who have a better set up than HSL, there's Hearts and then there's erm, there's um .... sorry, I should have done some research, I'm sure there are loads out there.

But anyway, bang on Firestarter .... Just because Hibs aren't at deaths door that doesn't mean to say that folk like me who have bought shares, buy a measly £400 season ticket every year and spend about another £300 just getting to games shouldn't be digging deeper to fund the club. The one good thing is that in our very own city we have a set of fans to look up to.

There is nothing the matter with HSL that a renewed vigour to it wouldn't sort.

That doesn't however alter the fact that Hearts fans raise more than 10 times what Hibs fans do per annum to support their team in addition to the other monies that we all spend actually following Hibs,

Whether its now 5 or 10 years from now or whenever that money will go into their playing budget and give them a huge advantage.

There are any number of Hibs fans deluding themselves that it wont matter, it will. Many many more who hark back to the different situations that led to the founding of FOH & HSL and justify that as the reasons for their comparative performances.

By all means don't contribute to HSL its an individual choice, but don't criticise those who see the car crash coming in the distance and are trying to prevent it.

At the end of the day despite their differing motivations one day soon Hearts playing budget will be boosted by supporters donations more than 10 times greater than Hibs budget will be.

No one at Tynecastle will give a jot why that is the situation, but unless we wise up to it and those that can afford to start contributing, we will be handing them an advantage by out intransigence and arrogance over the deparation of their scheme's origin.

Happy New Year to all

[Nameless]

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Yeah the cash cow is just weird!

Be fair, she's not weird, she just looks awful in that jacket.

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[WoreTheGreen]

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Be fair, she's not weird, she just looks awful in that jacket.

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A bit harsh afterall it’s friesian oot there

[Jack Hackett]

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The cash cow really got me, it was hilarious. Just absolute begging from them, trying to get everything and anything they can out of their own fans as they didn’t have enough for the new stand on their own.

Are we talking about the plastic one or the Polyfilla one?... I get so confused