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  1. #121
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    It's ordinary people uniting to say enough is enough. Good on them.
    As well as the Beckhams and Lily Allen as if to illustrate the inequality in British society that provides the foundation for such disasters.

    Have a read of The Spririt Line for the evidence.


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  3. #122
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    Watching the news is annoying me how people in the area are protesting with their blame aimed at the police and fire brigade, for not entering the building and giving them news of more dead. If the building isn't safe then it should not be entered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frazeHFC View Post
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    Watching the news is annoying me how people in the area are protesting with their blame aimed at the police and fire brigade, for not entering the building and giving them news of more dead. If the building isn't safe then it should not be entered.
    Their blame isn't being aimed at the police or fire brigade at all. The media is just framing it that way. Those who can see beyond it know who they are really angry at.

  5. #124
    Coaching Staff frazeHFC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    Their blame isn't being aimed at the police or fire brigade at all. The media is just framing it that way. Those who can see beyond it know who they are really angry at.
    I was paraphrasing what a guy said on the news. He specifically said he was angry with the police and fire brigade and said they aren't doing their job properly.

  6. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    Their blame isn't being aimed at the police or fire brigade at all. The media is just framing it that way. Those who can see beyond it know who they are really angry at.
    The middle class media who lionise the Beckhams, Allen and adelle for their guest appearances?

  7. #126
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    Socialist Workers in their as usual!

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk

  8. #127
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colr View Post
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    Socialist Workers in their as usual!

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk
    A good piece in there by Penny Anderson, linked to what was being discussed earlier. Things have to change.

    As the horror of the Grenfell Tower fire is gradually revealed, we already know that people are homeless and traumatised, having lost everything, and sometimes everyone they care about. They are bereft, shattered, devastated and in need of help to soothe their sorrow, and of assistance for their practical need.

    But one particular aspect is easy to make better, isnít it? Placing survivors of this horror in Londonís vacant property, as David Lammy and Jeremy Corbyn have rightly suggested, is pleasingly and exquisitely simple in its justice (in fact, letís house all homeless people in the capitalís empty flats).



    Stay calm, oh poor benighted rentier class; we can already hear your shrill, entitled whining. Be silent, you wailing investor; we are not coming for your home, we will not evict your family from the country pile. But all those flats you snap up then keep empty to accumulate unearned, undeserved wealth? Let people live in them.
    Proudhon applies here. Property really is theft when it is grasped greedily and then hoarded, when every home suitable for first-time buyers is placed out of reach. Developments that should contain homes for people to live in are appropriated by the rentier class. This is a major problem in London, but also happens wherever the buy-to-let development industry is rampant Ė Manchester especially.


    How many empty homes are there in London? Tens of thousands. Not all are gorgeous mansions in the sky; some are quite ordinary flats but pass for luxurious under Londonís febrile through-the-looking-glass housing market, where an ordinary Edwardian terrace in Fulham built to house the working class is now drooled over by millionaires.
    When investors have outbid even those few locals who might afford to buy them, do they then live there? Sometimes. Rent them out for a massive profit? Occasionally. All too often new property is bought off-plan by overseas investors who treat robust housing like fragile porcelain ornamental houses, keeping them empty and clear of polluting tenants.


    Wander through neighbourhoods favoured by investors and the first thing you notice is silence. There are frequently no children, not even any teenagers hanging around. Some homes are bought by overseas clients who never see what they own, and who, given the amount of equity they have already acquired, have made a fortune by sitting still and doing nothing.
    So letís nationalise them. Letís place them in the hands of councils so desperate for affordable homes that they ship homeless people to Peterborough, away from all they know and everything they hold dear.


    Vast gated estates of empty investment shells with poor doors render neighbourhoods eerily bleak. Housing Grenfell Tower survivors together would revitalise arid property prairies where nobody lives but where rich people invest. Squatting is so restricted by new laws as to be impossible, so that option is closed. Kindly expropriation Ė owners could even be paid rents by government Ė will open up empty flats, even entire blocks, ideally containing top-of-the-range sprinkler systems and with all cladding the best that money can buy. These properties will be fireproof, shiny and classy, with all internal fittings extravagant. The grander, the better.


    I can envisage mass compulsory purchase orders affecting not the poorer people in the way of a new development, as is generally the case, but displacing those who collect a property portfolio as others hoard boxed Stars Wars figures. These property owners do nothing except splurge at an auction overseas (many councils even visit the property market in Cannes to encourage them). The money amassed by the privileged few is obscene.





    In most of London, property has been earning more each year from rising prices than a firefighter does from saving lives. Empty property should be bought up, then placed under a brand new armís-length management organisation. After which, I suggest, leave it in perpetuity as social housing. Otherwise, who will teach, drive and serve coffee to Londonís rich?
    And if these properties are top-end flats, with swimming pools and a concierge, marble fittings, en-suites throughout and balconies with a view? Even better. After what they have been through, this wonderful, strong community deserves the very best that investors could buy.
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  9. #128
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Aamer Anwar: People died because they are poor and because of housing policy. Fair?

    HIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875

  10. #129
    @hibs.net private member steakbake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    Aamer Anwar: People died because they are poor and because of housing policy. Fair?

    I don't know how anyone can reasonably disagree

  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    It's ordinary people uniting to say enough is enough. Good on them.

  12. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    There's a mob outside BBC HQ as well. Looks peaceful enough but why are they there?
    All turning a bit unsavoury imo.

  13. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by steakbake View Post
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    I don't know how anyone can reasonably disagree
    Because nobody knows yet what has happened, but of course many will still pretend they do for some easy publicity.

  14. #133
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Because nobody knows yet what has happened, but of course many will still pretend they do for some easy publicity.
    Or they are speaking up for a community who are genuinely angry and need people to express their long held concerns now rather than letting them be quietly forgotten.
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  15. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    Aamer Anwar: People died because they are poor and because of housing policy. Fair?
    I believe he's correct that safety standards of all sorts will tumble after brexit. I don't believe it's right that only poor people in this country are at risk from fire. There will be many, many multi-storey buildings in Morningside, Merchiston, the West End, etc, which don't have sprinklers, communal fire alarms, two stairwells, or any of the other things that commentators are braying should have been installed before this fire. These buildings probably don't have cheap plasticky cladding on the outside, but the idea that cheap materials are chosen/corners are cut on public sector buildings only, and not on private sector buildings, is imo wrongheaded.

  16. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    Their blame isn't being aimed at the police or fire brigade at all. The media is just framing it that way. Those who can see beyond it know who they are really angry at.
    All the same the emergency services have come under flak in the past. That's why they frequently come forward in a phalanx to face the media after every major incident nowadays.

    And when they threaten industrial action they are virtually accused of treason.

  17. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by lapsedhibee View Post
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    I believe he's correct that safety standards of all sorts will tumble after brexit. I don't believe it's right that only poor people in this country are at risk from fire. There will be many, many multi-storey buildings in Morningside, Merchiston, the West End, etc, which don't have sprinklers, communal fire alarms, two stairwells, or any of the other things that commentators are braying should have been installed before this fire. These buildings probably don't have cheap plasticky cladding on the outside, but the idea that cheap materials are chosen/corners are cut on public sector buildings only, and not on private sector buildings, is imo wrongheaded.
    A multi in Morningside. Where is this?

  18. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by marinello59 View Post
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    Or they are speaking up for a community who are genuinely angry and need people to express their long held concerns now rather than letting them be quietly forgotten.
    You have a kinder interpretation of amer anwar than me, it seems!

    There are three separate inquiries going, and ongoing recovery.

    Im not sure what else anyone can expect of a govt 3 days after it had happened?

    The NHS and emergency services have stepped up. If there had brrn something wrongly done around housing polixy, or the apllication of that policy, then heads should roll. But we wont know that for some time.

    I agree positive action should come from this, but raging at 'the tories' or ' the police' or 'the establishment' smacks of people scapegoating organisations that they dont like anyway, and that they want to be responsible for this tragedy.

  19. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinNish View Post
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    A multi in Morningside. Where is this?
    I think he was maybe referring to tenements

  20. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I think he was maybe referring to tenements
    There are also some modern blocks of flats in Morningside - not high-rises, but the are definitely quite a lot of multi-occupant properties in the area.

  21. #140
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    I see the grenfell protest is today going to join forces with an anti-tory march. The motivations of the protesters seem a bit clearer now.

  22. #141
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    Imagine voting for this. Pretty incredible levels of arrogance in her avoiding anything resembling an answer to important and absolutely fair questions. I can't remember seeing a politician - never mind a PM - being so inept in every way. A card-board cut out of a Prime Minister and a total bitch.

  23. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant Stone View Post
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    Imagine voting for this. Pretty incredible levels of arrogance in her avoiding anything resembling an answer to important and absolutely fair questions. I can't remember seeing a politician - never mind a PM - being so inept in every way. A card-board cut out of a Prime Minister and a total bitch.
    Agree she's not good enough to be prime minister, but the constant haranguing of politicians to say "Yes it was my fault that this happened" when it clearly wasn't is incredibly tiresome.

  24. #143
    @hibs.net private member steakbake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I see the grenfell protest is today going to join forces with an anti-tory march. The motivations of the protesters seem a bit clearer now.
    Tory council, warned again and again by residents about safety. Tory ministers who cut landlord regulation. Tory austerity which outsources the functions of the council to the cheapest bidder.

    So yes, it seems clear to me that there's a cross over.

  25. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by s.a.m View Post
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    There are also some modern blocks of flats in Morningside - not high-rises, but the are definitely quite a lot of multi-occupant properties in the area.
    A tenement or modern block of flats is not the same as a multi storey - not by a long shot.

  26. #145
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    I don't know whether this photo is real, however, why the hell did the British establishment decide to troop the colour today. Absolutely no need to go ahead with this. Rubs salt into the wounds of the Grenfell site families.

    DCiuiG2XoAIpezk.jpg


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  27. #146
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I don't know whether this photo is real, however, why the hell did the British establishment decide to troop the colour today. Absolutely no need to go ahead with this. Rubs salt into the wounds of the Grenfell site families.

    DCiuiG2XoAIpezk.jpg
    They do it because it's just what they do. It's been the same for hundreds of years. The particular events may change, but the sentiment remains the same.

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  28. #147
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    They do it because it's just what they do. It's been the same for hundreds of years. The particular events may change, but the sentiment remains the same.
    Off to Ascot next week then, and the plebs can get on with sifting through the wreckage for their lives.


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  29. #148
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Off to Ascot next week then, and the plebs can get on with sifting through the wreckage for their lives.
    They have one goal in life and that's to produce an heir. They'll pay lip service to events, but that's all it is. I would hope an independent Scotland would have no place for their kind.

    GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE SIMON MURRAY

  30. #149
    Testimonial Due Colr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lord bunberry View Post
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    They have one goal in life and that's to produce an heir. They'll pay lip service to events, but that's all it is. I would hope an independent Scotland would have no place for their kind.
    Is that the Beckhms, Adele, Lily Allen or Theresa May?

  31. #150
    @hibs.net private member CapitalGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I don't know whether this photo is real, however, why the hell did the British establishment decide to troop the colour today. Absolutely no need to go ahead with this. Rubs salt into the wounds of the Grenfell site families.

    DCiuiG2XoAIpezk.jpg
    I think the sky being 2 different shades of blues gives away that it is not real.

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