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  1. #331
    @hibs.net private member Sylar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    So what was your response? Could thames water have upped the pressure or whatever to make it easier for the firemen? From this layman's eye by the time the tenders had got there the fire was so ferocious it wouldn't have made much difference.
    My understanding is that it's very difficult for water companies to rapidly adjust water pressure in particular locales at short notice, but my expertise aren't in engineered water systems and I didn't want my name being quoted against something that might be wrong, so I ended up directing him toward a friend of mine who works in that area.

    A lot of water companies across the UK have been accused of maintaining lower pressures to ensure they're leak compliant, something this awful event has brought into the discussion. If that's the case here, then Thames Water may have a case to answer, but it wouldn't be exclusively in relation to Grenfell.
    Okay, technically I'm a serial killer...


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  3. #332
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylar View Post
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    My understanding is that it's very difficult for water companies to rapidly adjust water pressure in particular locales at short notice
    Thanks, that was my assumption

  4. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
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    Why anyone would want to cover up the number of fatalities is a question on it's own. One would have to think about who has most to lose?

    But there is more than one way to work anything out.

    If you can't count the dead then let's try and count the survivors.

    Best I've seen is 150 or so.

    The flats were designed to accommodate 600 or so.

    Let's assume it wasn't at full occupancy.

    79 dead still isn't plausible.
    So apparently 71 confirmed to habe died.

    I wonder if all the experts on here will admit they were wildly speculating without facts?

  5. #334
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    So apparently 71 confirmed to habe died.

    I wonder if all the experts on here will admit they were wildly speculating without facts?
    Pretty poor post and attempt at petty point scoring. The fact is it's taken over 6 months for the official death toll to confirm that what people on the ground already knew at the time. The final death toll is pretty much exactly what the local residents knew it to be in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy. The government and local authorities have only themselves to blame for the understandable anger shown by residents at Grenfell.

  6. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Pretty poor post and attempt at petty point scoring. The fact is it's taken over 6 months for the official death toll to confirm that what people on the ground already knew at the time. The final death toll is pretty much exactly what the local residents knew it to be in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy. The government and local authorities have only themselves to blame for the understandable anger shown by residents at Grenfell.
    It's not a poor post at all...what was poor was people running up all sorts of conspiracy theories at the time. Theories that have been proven to be incorrect and misinformed.

    The authorities stated all along that they would need time to confirm the numbers due to the nature of the disaster.

  7. #336
    @hibs.net private member cabbageandribs1875's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    It's not a poor post at all...what was poor was people running up all sorts of conspiracy theories at the time. Theories that have been proven to be incorrect and misinformed.

    The authorities stated all along that they would need time to confirm the numbers due to the nature of the disaster.


    good point, 'several hundred' missing, government cover-ups, protest marches organised, demands for enquiries just 48 hours after etc etc

  8. #337
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    It's not a poor post at all...what was poor was people running up all sorts of conspiracy theories at the time. Theories that have been proven to be incorrect and misinformed.

    The authorities stated all along that they would need time to confirm the numbers due to the nature of the disaster.
    You mean theories like the total death count is nearer 79 and not 17, or that residents had raised concerns about the cladding prior to the fire, or that relatives of people missing and unaccounted for were being blanked when asking if their relatives were amongst survivors being treated in hospital? These were all things that happened in the immediate aftermath of the fire. The government and local authorities have only themselves to blame.

  9. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    You mean theories like the total death count is nearer 79 and not 17, or that residents had raised concerns about the cladding prior to the fire, or that relatives of people missing and unaccounted for were being blanked when asking if their relatives were amongst survivors being treated in hospital? These were all things that happened in the immediate aftermath of the fire. The government and local authorities have only themselves to blame.
    No, i mean claims that tge estinated death toll of around 70 was implausible, that there was some sort of politically morivated cover-up going on. Plenty of people were quick to dismiss the official explanation without any evidence, i wonder if they will be so quick to admit that they were actually in the wrong?

    Fair enough if you think it is a poor post, but i dont.

  10. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    You mean theories like the total death count is nearer 79 and not 17, or that residents had raised concerns about the cladding prior to the fire, or that relatives of people missing and unaccounted for were being blanked when asking if their relatives were amongst survivors being treated in hospital? These were all things that happened in the immediate aftermath of the fire. The government and local authorities have only themselves to blame.
    No I mean the likes of Lilly Allen running her mouth off saying the death toll was 150 or people posting doctored images of the red arrows flying over the burnt out block or the accusations of the death toll being deliberately massaged.

    The BBC reported quite early on that 70 odd people were missing. The authorities stated it would take a lot of effort to confirm actual deaths. It seems like that's exactly what has happened.

    Should the authorities have dealt with it better? Of course they should have but none the less the was plenty of people peddling misinformation around a tragic event to further their own agendas.

  11. #340
    @hibs.net private member Johnny Clash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    No, i mean claims that tge estinated death toll of around 70 was implausible, that there was some sort of politically morivated cover-up going on. Plenty of people were quick to dismiss the official explanation without any evidence, i wonder if they will be so quick to admit that they were actually in the wrong?

    Fair enough if you think it is a poor post, but i dont.
    I think most of us Londoners feared the worst when you looked at the horrendous scale of the tragedy. Many experienced fire fighters in the Fire brigade thought the death toll would be much higher. They werenít saying that as some conspiracy or to stir things up. It was their honest assessment based on what they saw that horrible night. In fact even the Met police themselves announced 79 deaths back in June!

    So those who are being all pious and smug maybe ought to just reflect on the tragedy and whether or not it was avoidable instead of pointing fingers at those raising their genuine concerns!

  12. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Clash View Post
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    I think most of us Londoners feared the worst when you looked at the horrendous scale of the tragedy. Many experienced fire fighters in the Fire brigade thought the death toll would be much higher. They werenít saying that as some conspiracy or to stir things up. It was their honest assessment based on what they saw that horrible night. In fact even the Met police themselves announced 79 deaths back in June!

    So those who are being all pious and smug maybe ought to just reflect on the tragedy and whether or not it was avoidable instead of pointing fingers at those raising their genuine concerns!
    I dont think im being pious or smug. I said at the time lets wait and see what happens. But to many, a chance to turn tge tragedy and the 'cover up' too bash the tories and the establishment was too tempting.

    I got into quite a heated argument becuase i called some people out on hijacking the deaths of x amount of people for tenuous political aims, and i was slaughtered by many as some sort of tory apologist... of course the numbers woyld be higher, the tories just didnt want to admit how many had died etc etc

    Lots of people made wild assertions based on nothing more than their own political bias. I dont think its unreasonable to hold people to their claims.

  13. #342
    @hibs.net private member Johnny Clash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I dont think im being pious or smug. I said at the time lets wait and see what happens. But to many, a chance to turn tge tragedy and the 'cover up' too bash the tories and the establishment was too tempting.

    I got into quite a heated argument becuase i called some people out on hijacking the deaths of x amount of people for tenuous political aims, and i was slaughtered by many as some sort of tory apologist... of course the numbers woyld be higher, the tories just didnt want to admit how many had died etc etc

    Lots of people made wild assertions based on nothing more than their own political bias. I dont think its unreasonable to hold people to their claims.
    If it is 71 proven deaths then itís still an awful tragedy surely? I think itís reasonable to reflect on that. if politicians have needlessly put lives at risk to save a few quid then they need jailed!

    Just like piper alpha , king cross fire etc those guilty have never once been jailed. Itís corporate man slaughter (homicide in Scotland) and those responsible are the CEOs and heads of companies/decision makers. if itís proven selfish, greedy politicians are guilty then fines, slaps on wrists, removal from honours lists not good enough. They must do time !

  14. #343
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    So apparently 71 confirmed to habe died.

    I wonder if all the experts on here will admit they were wildly speculating without facts?
    I'd be more worried if I were still in temporary housing after being told I'd be re-housed within a month.

    You bash on though.

  15. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    I'd be more worried if I were still in temporary housing after being told I'd be re-housed within a month.

    You bash on though.
    Ill take that as a no then.

    Whats wrong, had your branch political education officer not given you lines for that... 😀

  16. #345
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Ill take that as a no then.

    Whats wrong, had your branch political education officer not given you lines for that... 😀
    Point me to just one of my posts that alludes to number of people dead in the disaster, just one.

    You really should start thinking for yourself instead of using MA's lines.

  17. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Point me to just one of my posts that alludes to number of people dead in the disaster, just one.

    You really should start thinking for yourself instead of using MA's lines.
    😂 irony overload...

  18. #347
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    😂 irony overload...
    Any post mate, just one will do. 😊

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