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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeJay View Post
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    Difficult to believe you actually wrote this and still posted it ...


    Its called nuance.

    Shouting something down as 'nazi', especiallu when what was being discussed was nothing of the sort, is peurile.

    My post was merely trying to highlight the stupidity of that line of argument.


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  3. #32
    @hibs.net private member PeeJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Its called nuance.

    Shouting something down as 'nazi', especiallu when what was being discussed was nothing of the sort, is peurile.

    My post was merely trying to highlight the stupidity of that line of argument.
    By posting something equally stupid?

  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeJay View Post
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    By posting something equally stupid?
    Yes!! Im not sure it worked though...

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member PeeJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Yes!! Im not sure it worked though...

    Well, writing "Not every policy of the Nazis was bad" without qualifying it seems to me to be a more worrying "line of argument" to adopt than the one you were initially criticising ...

    By the way, "The Nuremberg Laws" of 1935 was a Nazi policy that stripped Jews of their citizenship - so no "may have been" about it - Seems to me HB was entitled to query the post suggesting this was "nonsense" and NYH was entitled to make the initial reference ...

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeeJay View Post
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    Well, writing "Not every policy of the Nazis was bad" without qualifying it seems to me to be a more worrying "line of argument" to adopt than the one you were initially criticising ...

    By the way, "The Nuremberg Laws" of 1935 was a Nazi policy that stripped Jews of their citizenship - so no "may have been" about it - Seems to me HB was entitled to query the post suggesting this was "nonsense" and NYH was entitled to make the initial reference ...
    I concede the point, there was a logic to it in my head, but i didnt really pit it across very well, amd obviously once Goodwin's Law has been evoked, and the 'N' word is in play, it is difficult to continie the discussion without finding yourself in the bizarre position of appearing to defend the nazis, which i think and hope goes without saying wasnt my intention.

    And i said 'may' because i genuinely didnt know for sure, i was taking Hibrandenburgs word for it, not disputing it.

  7. #36
    @hibs.net private member PeeJay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I concede the point, there was a logic to it in my head, but i didnt really pit it across very well, amd obviously once Goodwin's Law has been evoked, and the 'N' word is in play, it is difficult to continie the discussion without finding yourself in the bizarre position of appearing to defend the nazis, which i think and hope goes without saying wasnt my intention.

    And i said 'may' because i genuinely didnt know for sure, i was taking Hibrandenburgs word for it, not disputing it.
    Alles klar ...

  8. #37
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    It may have been, yes.

    So were having schools, building roads and collecting taxes.

    I assume we think we should still do these, even though the Nazis did them too?

    Ergo not ever policy of the Nazis was bad?
    Ah, the good old "the Nazis weren't all bad because they built the Autobahns" argument. C'mon tae f...

  9. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Ah, the good old "the Nazis weren't all bad because they built the Autobahns" argument. C'mon tae f...
    Thats not what i said.

    We both agree the nazis were bad ( statement of the obvious i presume).

    But i also assume we both agree that building roads isnt a bad policy per se? Even although the nazis built roads, it doesnt tar all future road building as a nazi policy?

    So can we agree that an individual policy pursued under the nazis can be a good policy when taken in isolation, without legitimising the regime enacting the policy?

    A kind of 'stopped clocks are right twice a day' theory?

  10. #39
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Thats not what i said.

    We both agree the nazis were bad ( statement of the obvious i presume).

    But i also assume we both agree that building roads isnt a bad policy per se? Even although the nazis built roads, it doesnt tar all future road building as a nazi policy?

    So can we agree that an individual policy pursued under the nazis can be a good policy when taken in isolation, without legitimising the regime enacting the policy?

    A kind of 'stopped clocks are right twice a day' theory?
    But you can't separate the two, you just have to ask the question who built the roads for the Nazis, who was sent to work in their factories?

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    But you can't separate the two, you just have to ask the question who built the roads for the Nazis, who was sent to work in their factories?
    Of course you can, you have to, we all do everyday.

    So are you saying that building roads, as a policy, is bad and 'nazi'?

  12. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Of course you can, you have to, we all do everyday.

    So are you saying that building roads, as a policy, is bad and 'nazi'?
    Bet you're regretting bringing them up now. Lolz.

  13. #42
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Of course you can, you have to, we all do everyday.

    So are you saying that building roads, as a policy, is bad and 'nazi'?
    Increased road building only provides room for more cars and increased polution from emissions so you could be right
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  14. #43
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Of course you can, you have to, we all do everyday.

    So are you saying that building roads, as a policy, is bad and 'nazi'?
    No, but Hitlers economical success that allowed him to build Autobahns and reestablish Germany as a military might was partly facilitated by compulsory acquisition of Jewish property and the overuse of resources that then required them to seek military expansion, the two are interwoven and can't and shouldn't be separated.

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Bet you're regretting bringing them up now. Lolz.
    Not half...

    To be fair i didnt bring them up, but i wished id ignored it!

  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    Increased road building only provides room for more cars and increased polution from emissions so you could be right
    The diesel holocaust!

  17. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    No, but Hitlers economical success that allowed him to build Autobahns and reestablish Germany as a military might was partly facilitated by compulsory acquisition of Jewish property and the overuse of resources that then required them to seek military expansion, the two are interwoven and can't and shouldn't be separated.
    Ok, so are you saying that no road can ever be built anywhere, because the nazis used stolen wealth to fund theirs?

    This is a stupid argument, quite obviously a policy can be a good policy, even if the nazis also pursued it, which was my original point.

  18. #47
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    The diesel holocaust!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKggnBh2Mdw

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVRctkOATxg

    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  19. #48
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Ok, so are you saying that no road can ever be built anywhere, because the nazis used stolen wealth to fund theirs?

    This is a stupid argument, quite obviously a policy can be a good policy, even if the nazis also pursued it, which was my original point.
    No that's stupid. But wasn't it you who deflected from the subject of removing people's citizenship to building roads

  20. #49
    @hibs.net private member CropleyWasGod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Fleece View Post
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    Thread hijack, but so good to hear Handy Man again.

  21. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    No that's stupid. But wasn't it you who deflected from the subject of removing people's citizenship to building roads
    Yes, by arguing that the lazy shout of "the nazis had that policy" doesnt habe to mean it is, or was a bad policy per se.

  22. #51
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Yes, by arguing that the lazy shout of "the nazis had that policy" doesnt habe to mean it is, or was a bad policy per se.
    It's not Lazy though and has direct connotations and consequences to many people, it's also lazily ridiculous to compare removing someone's citizenship with building roads.

  23. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    So stripping people of their citizenship wasn't a Nazi policy?
    So was the hunting law that the Nazi party started in 1934 and many Western countries adopted this too..

  24. #53
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swedish hibee View Post
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    So was the hunting law that the Nazi party started in 1934 and many Western countries adopted this too..
    Like road building hunting laws are hardly comparable to stripping people of their citizenship and hardly something you would immediately associate with fascism, unless of course that you'd like to argue that the Nazis weren't all bad because they did do some positive things too?

  25. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    It's not Lazy though and has direct connotations and consequences to many people, it's also lazily ridiculous to compare removing someone's citizenship with building roads.
    By all means debate, and dispute the merits of removing someone's citizenship. The point about roads was to prove the priciple that shouting "the nazis did that" doesnt automatically disqualify an idea from being a good one.

    I dont see any direct consequences or connotations.

    The UK had many flaws, but descending into facism as happened in Germany isnt likely to be one of them imo


    I think it is lazy in this situation imo. It shuts down debate, amd draws at best, tangential lines between the wholesale persecution of a religious minority in 1930s Germany, with the deliberate murder and terrorism by a religious minority of in many cases, their own country in 2017 UK.

    Just my view, but it adds little to the debate, and means peolle become scared to habe discussion for fear of being labelled a nazi apologist, or some such.
    Last edited by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy; 26-05-2017 at 01:30 PM.

  26. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Like road building hunting laws are hardly comparable to stripping people of their citizenship and hardly something you would immediately associate with fascism, unless of course that you'd like to argue that the Nazis weren't all bad because they did do some positive things too?
    Jeez. I give up.

    You originally made a comment towards a poster I thought was nonsense ( and still do), and myself & others pointed out that nazi policies are everywhere to this day.
    That is all.
    Last edited by Swedish hibee; 27-05-2017 at 12:38 PM.

  27. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
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    Like road building hunting laws are hardly comparable to stripping people of their citizenship and hardly something you would immediately associate with fascism, unless of course that you'd like to argue that the Nazis weren't all bad because they did do some positive things too?
    Nobody is arguing your last point - you are constantly building strawman arguments.

  28. #57
    @hibs.net private member cabbageandribs1875's Avatar
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    imo an acceptable sentence for another would-be bomber, if he actually serves 15 years http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40059351

    A student who made a bomb filled with ball bearings and left it on a Tube train has been jailed for 15 years.

    Damon Smith put his homemade device into a rucksack and left it on a Jubilee Line train in October 2016.

  29. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875 View Post
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    imo an acceptable sentence for another would-be bomber, if he actually serves 15 years http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40059351

    A student who made a bomb filled with ball bearings and left it on a Tube train has been jailed for 15 years.

    Damon Smith put his homemade device into a rucksack and left it on a Jubilee Line train in October 2016.


    Yes, but he'll be released at the latest when he's 39, and what reason does anyone have for believing he won't still be suffering from the same disorder then, and still likely to find a 'smoke bomb' filled with ball-bearings a hugely amusing 'prank' to play on commuters? Life under supervision would have been more sensible.


    "Once one accepts that one has bear-hugged full-blown barking there is great comfort in the bright lights and noises of the wibble-wibble show ..."

  30. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doddie View Post
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    Yes, but he'll be released at the latest when he's 39, and what reason does anyone have for believing he won't still be suffering from the same disorder then, and still likely to find a 'smoke bomb' filled with ball-bearings a hugely amusing 'prank' to play on commuters? Life under supervision would have been more sensible.
    Why take the risk? Life in jail. The guy tried ti kill and maim dozens.

    I wonder what the average sentence is for attempted murder?

  31. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Why take the risk? Life in jail. The guy tried ti kill and maim dozens.

    I wonder what the average sentence is for attempted murder?

    Like the average sentence for murder - not enough. The law sometimes seems to have more respect for the life of the killer than for that of the killed.


    "Once one accepts that one has bear-hugged full-blown barking there is great comfort in the bright lights and noises of the wibble-wibble show ..."

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