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  1. #1

    Horse Racing (General)

    No American Triple Crown winner this year then.

    Good return to the track by Caravaggio at Naas. I still think he'll stay a mile but O'Brien's keeping him at sprint distances just now. Fav for the Commonwealth Cup at Royal Ascot.


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  3. #2
    Frankel gets his first classic winner with Soul Stirring winning the Japanese Oaks. Be interesting to see how he develops the Galileo lineage once he starts to really put his stamp on his foals
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  4. #3
    Churchill is going to miss the Derby and is heading to the Curragh for the Irish 2000 Guineas instead.

    It's funny because everyone always says the Guineas is the best indicator for the derby but the double doesn't happen that often. Camelot, Sea The Stars and Nashwan the only 3 to win both in 30 years, it's 4 in 49 years if you go back to Nijinsky.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Churchill is going to miss the Derby and is heading to the Curragh for the Irish 2000 Guineas instead.

    It's funny because everyone always says the Guineas is the best indicator for the derby but the double doesn't happen that often. Camelot, Sea The Stars and Nashwan the only 3 to win both in 30 years, it's 4 in 49 years if you go back to Nijinsky.
    Yeh, strange one that, Churchill certainly looked like he'd stay and has some breeding on the sire's side to back that up. Coolmore have something like 5 or 6 entries for the Derby, and the breeding side plays a huge part in their operation. They could try and 'do a Frankel' and keep Churchill for the mile races, probably keep him in training as a 4 year old and run him over a mile and a quarter and then Champions Day or the Breeders Cup. Meanwhile another O'Brien horse (at the moment it looks like Cliffs of Moher) wins the Derby and boosts his value as well.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Frankel gets his first classic winner with Soul Stirring winning the Japanese Oaks. Be interesting to see how he develops the Galileo lineage once he starts to really put his stamp on his foals
    I think most were expecting miracles from Frankels first lot last year and it just doesn't work like that in breeding. They're not all going to be stars no matter how good the sire/dam is.

    On the derby, Dubai Thunder probably going to carry my money as it stands. No outstanding candidate IMO and very impressive at York last week.

  7. #6
    A kind of hijack, does anybody Ún here get genuine tips for horses/greyhound etc

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Leith's finest View Post
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    A kind of hijack, does anybody Ún here get genuine tips for horses/greyhound etc
    I used to have a small share in a couple of horses as well as being a memeber of a small racing club that had 2 horses. The trainer was more likely to tell us when a horse wasn't going to run well rather than when they were. Often they would be placed in a race just to get a run and some fitness. Horses that had gone up in the handicap were also run regularly in races they were unlikely to win to try and get them back on to a more suitable mark.

    Of course we would hear when the horses had been 'found a good race' or 'are ready to go' but I can't recall ever being told a horse would win. For that reason I'm always wary of people who claim to be 'in the know' with regards racing and tips.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  9. #8
    Testimonial Due Treadstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Churchill is going to miss the Derby and is heading to the Curragh for the Irish 2000 Guineas instead.

    It's funny because everyone always says the Guineas is the best indicator for the derby but the double doesn't happen that often. Camelot, Sea The Stars and Nashwan the only 3 to win both in 30 years, it's 4 in 49 years if you go back to Nijinsky.
    Always thought it was for the whole field and not just the winner. Not so much now but beaten horses turning up on Derby Day in the past were interesting a la Generous 1991.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Treadstone View Post
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    Always thought it was for the whole field and not just the winner. Not so much now but beaten horses turning up on Derby Day in the past were interesting a la Generous 1991.
    The most obvious example of that was probably Mill Reef, beaten 3 lengths by Brigadier Gerard in the 2000 Guineas and then going on to win the Derby and other classics in emphatic style. One of the best racehorses of all time.

  11. #10
    Testimonial Due Treadstone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ekhibee View Post
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    The most obvious example of that was probably Mill Reef, beaten 3 lengths by Brigadier Gerard in the 2000 Guineas and then going on to win the Derby and other classics in emphatic style. One of the best racehorses of all time.
    One of the horses I'd love to have been around for. His team considered him vulnerable to being beaten in the Derby but the time the arc came they thought he was invincible. Love that confidence and knowing.

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ekhibee View Post
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    The most obvious example of that was probably Mill Reef, beaten 3 lengths by Brigadier Gerard in the 2000 Guineas and then going on to win the Derby and other classics in emphatic style. One of the best racehorses of all time.
    Australia another example of that recently

  13. #12
    Churchill does the Guineas double. St James Palace seems to be the plan then a step up to 10f.

    Can see him improving again on slightly better ground. I wasn't sure about him but he looks a serious horse.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Churchill does the Guineas double. St James Palace seems to be the plan then a step up to 10f.

    Can see him improving again on slightly better ground. I wasn't sure about him but he looks a serious horse.
    He was good today but I think the 3YO milers is quite a week division.

  15. #14
    Winter shows Newmarket was no fluke by again beating Rhododendron at the Curragh.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Winter shows Newmarket was no fluke by again beating Rhododendron at the Curragh.
    Rhododendron didn't run at the Curragh, but Winter was still impressive. Good horse. O'Brien 1-2-3.

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ekhibee View Post
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    Rhododendron didn't run at the Curragh, but Winter was still impressive. Good horse. O'Brien 1-2-3.
    You're right of course. I only just saw the race now.

    Went by the Racing Post who had Rhododendron 2nd on their results and mentioned her in their report too. It's now been amended, I did think it was strange but didn't bother to check.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    You're right of course. I only just saw the race now.

    Went by the Racing Post who had Rhododendron 2nd on their results and mentioned her in their report too. It's now been amended, I did think it was strange but didn't bother to check.
    I'm sure I read an interview with O'Brien within the last week or so saying he's going to try Rhododendron over longer distances, maybe one of the Oaks or one of the bigger mile and a quarter races. That might be a shrewd move, she certainly wasn't stopping in the 1000 guineas, but it's still hard to tell whether she stays further IMO. She had trouble in running there and when she eventually found a way through she ran on well, but that doesn't mean she'll stay longer distances.

    As for the Irish 2000, Churchill did what Churchill does- nothing too flashy but gets the job done comfortably enough. Interesting that the second, Thunder Snow, was a naughty boy in America but showed that he is actually a decent horse. I must sound like a broken record going on about Caravaggio, but at Royal Ascot he hammered Thunder Snow out of sight.

  19. #18
    What's everyones thoughts on the saga of the mare Diore Lia and her derby entry? 1000/1 outsider, 2 starts seeing her finishing 8/9 and 5/8, rated 52 and going to be ridden by an apprentice with no wins in 34 races. Her owner and new trainer, who she was moved to after the previous one objected to the Derby plan, are insisting she is going to run.

    I know it's for charity and whatever but the Derby should be for elite horses, allowing a horse more suited to a claimer on a Thursday night at Kempton AW makes a mockery of the race imo.

  20. #19
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    What's everyones thoughts on the saga of the mare Diore Lia and her derby entry? 1000/1 outsider, 2 starts seeing her finishing 8/9 and 5/8, rated 52 and going to be ridden by an apprentice with no wins in 34 races. Her owner and new trainer, who she was moved to after the previous one objected to the Derby plan, are insisting she is going to run.

    I know it's for charity and whatever but the Derby should be for elite horses, allowing a horse more suited to a claimer on a Thursday night at Kempton AW makes a mockery of the race imo.
    I don't know if it makes a mockery of the race, but it's just plain stupid. On a track like Epsom a horse back-pedalling through the field can cause havoc. Hopefully it stays at the back of the field and doesn't get in anyone's way. I'll be pretty pissed off if it stops my horse getting a run.

    GIRLS DONT LIKE BOYS GIRLS LIKE SIMON MURRAY

  21. #20
    Difficult one. You're quite right about how the Derby should be for elite horses, but let's be realistic, many of this lot have very little chance, and others are talked up then flop badly. I was looking through the field today, at least half of them have serious question marks with regards staying a mile and a half. This horse is running for charity, so I don't have any problem with it running other than the concerns Lord Bunberry mentioned re. getting in the way.

  22. #21
    Here's one for you. Since 1st January 2010, 9 horses have won more than 10 chases in the UK and Ireland (excluding hunter chases). Can you name them? I got 7 and would have never got the 2 I didn't.

  23. #22
    Nobody is going to have to worry about Diore Lia any longer as the BHA has said the jockey will not be allowed to ride so the horse shall not run.

  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Here's one for you. Since 1st January 2010, 9 horses have won more than 10 chases in the UK and Ireland (excluding hunter chases). Can you name them? I got 7 and would have never got the 2 I didn't.
    Wow, that's harder than I thought. I can only get 7 as well, and I'm not sure that they're all right anyway. Silvianaco Conte, Cue Card, Sprinter Sacre, Sire De Grugy, Sizing Europe, Don Cossack, Balthazar King.

  25. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ekhibee View Post
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    Wow, that's harder than I thought. I can only get 7 as well, and I'm not sure that they're all right anyway. Silvianaco Conte, Cue Card, Sprinter Sacre, Sire De Grugy, Sizing Europe, Don Cossack, Balthazar King.
    All correct.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  26. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    All correct.
    Menorah?

  27. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by HibernianJK View Post
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    Menorah?
    9 wins.

  28. #27
    Testimonial Due Treadstone's Avatar
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    Pigeon Island?

  29. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Treadstone View Post
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    Pigeon Island?
    Nope, only 4 chase wins.

    Clue - 1 is a Gigginstown horse, the other has a name that matches his colour.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  30. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Nope, only 4 chase wins.

    Clue - 1 is a Gigginstown horse, the other has a name that matches his colour.
    Chestnut Ben? Such a wild stab that I had to have a look at his horse profile to make sure I wasn't making a fool of myself, but there's a few chase wins in there. ?

  31. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by WeeRussell View Post
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    Chestnut Ben? Such a wild stab that I had to have a look at his horse profile to make sure I wasn't making a fool of myself, but there's a few chase wins in there. ?
    Correct. 11 chase wins since 2010.

    One to find, Gigginstown, trained by Gordon Elliot, French name.....
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

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