The Celtc problem

[G B Young]

30 points clear at the top of the league, not a single game lost, a treble on the cards, an excellent manager who's probably too 'big' for Scottish football and the prospect of them only getting stronger next season.

It's been an exceptional season for them, no question, but it once again raises the issue of where their utter dominance leaves top flight Scottish football. From fourth place down the other teams are closer to bottom spot than the top. Is there any league on the planet where one team is so absurdly far ahead of the rest? What, really, is the point of a league where only one team can win it?

Celtic leaving the Scottish league to play in England is a solution commonly advocated but we would leave Scotland with an even lesser bargaining position with the TV companies and even less well off financially. My own preferred solution of creating a UK-wide league to add some variety to our rather stale game doesn't curry much favour on here, so what do folk think is the most viable way forward for our top flight?

[BoomtownHibees]

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30 points clear at the top of the league, not a single game lost, a treble on the cards, an excellent manager who's probably too 'big' for Scottish football and the prospect of them only getting stronger next season.

It's been an exceptional season for them, no question, but it once again raises the issue of where their utter dominance leaves top flight Scottish football. From fourth place down the other teams are closer to bottom spot than the top. Is there any league on the planet where one team is so absurdly far ahead of the rest? What, really, is the point of a league where only one team can win it?

Celtic leaving the Scottish league to play in England is a solution commonly advocated but we would leave Scotland with an even lesser bargaining position with the TV companies and even less well off financially. My own preferred solution of creating a UK-wide league to add some variety to our rather stale game doesn't curry much favour on here, so what do folk think is the most viable way forward for our top flight?

3rd place are also closer to the bottom than the top

[lucky]

I used to favour a U.K. League but it's clearly never going to happen so we need concentrate on our own league. A fairer distribution of tv money & splitting gate money would make it a level playing field. I'd also consider moving our football calendar to spring/summer where it might generate more tv money

[Since90+2]

At the moment they have an exceptional manager who would not look out of place managing any club in England but Rodgers wont be there forever.

Once Rodgers leaves in a year or so the gap will probably narrow and it will revert back to how it was under Strachan / Deila with teams winning the odd game against them. I dont know what the odds at the bookies of them winning 10 in a row are but I reckon its probably more likely to happen than not.

[Robinho08]

Pains me to say it, but Sevco will get a stronger too and the league will return to normal pre 2012, fighting it out for 3rd place.

[cleanyman]

Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

[makaveli1875]

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Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

Cant see it , Celtic will get 10 in a row , Rodgers has another 4 years on his deal . Not a chance the huns are winning the league while he's there , especially not with the portuguese Cathro in charge

[green&left]

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Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

I suspect Scottish football will return to its 'norm' within the next decade but i'd be very surprised if Rangers win the league in the next 3 seasons. Celtic must have millions stashed away from transfer fee's, their merchandise is worth millions and is booming and Celtic Park is will pretty much be complete after their new £1m desso pitch goes in. The huns on the other hand have a crumbling Ibrox, the Sports Direct saga going on, a diddy manager and team needing rebuilt. I do expect them to finish 2nd in the next 2-3 seasons however purely due to the resources available to them (They've sold 34,000 season tickets already for next season)

[Sammy7nil]

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Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

You would get a decent return for that bet, I really cant see rangers even challenging in the next 3 years the league will be won be at least 10 points and probably more for some time yet imho.

[Sir David Gray]

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Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

If Rodgers stays there over the next 3 years, there's not a chance Rangers are winning the league in that time.

[Hibs Class]

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Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

Would be hugely surprised - think The Rangers are miles off right now and still in disarray. Hard to see how, never mind when, they'll get their act together.

[Steve20]

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Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

No chance. Rangers would need someone willing to put tens of millions into their team to even challenge Celtic, never mind win the league. There is no such person. Celtic will win the league now until there is a merger of leagues with other countries, which just won't happen.

We need to concentrate on trying to become the 2nd best team in the country, or if Rangers do improve that wee bit that takes them ahead of the rest of us, then the 3rd best team in the country regularly.

[21.05.2016]

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Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

Really?! I'd be extremely surprised. No way are they 3 years or less away from winning the league, not unless they turn to old habits and break the bank again which admittedly isn't out with the realms of possibility as their nightmare of celtic getting 10 in a row draws closer. As much as I hate to admit it, nobody will be in touching distance of celtic anytime soon.

I mentioned this on another thread last week, but one of the biggest problems with celtic is them hoovering up every bit of talent from other clubs in this country. They poach any talent but still bleat on about how theres lack of competition for them in this country. Riordan being the biggest example of ruined talent at celtic. Scott Allan another one, who i'm still convinced celtic only bought to get it right up the huns. I pray Cummings or McGinn don't end up there, far too much talent to be wasted warming the bench at celtic. As good a player as they both are, they aren't good enough for starting 11 at celtic IMO. Maybe in time but not now.

[Is It On....]

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Celtic will fall eventually.

All goes around in one big circle...I think Rangers will win the league within the next 3 seasons.

Sevco will one day take the next step and win it for the first time but it won't be when Brendan Rodgers is still at Celtic. Tic' supporting friends expect him to stay until they do 10 "in a row" and if he does the gap will be huge. Sevco are currently a very poor side and if the Caveman hadn't been hounded out then I think Hearts would have finished 3rd.

[Holmesdale Hibs]

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I used to favour a U.K. League but it's clearly never going to happen so we need concentrate on our own league. A fairer distribution of tv money & splitting gate money would make it a level playing field. I'd also consider moving our football calendar to spring/summer where it might generate more tv money

Agree with this but such sensible ideas will never be considered by the SFA.

[CropleyWasGod]

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30 points clear at the top of the league, not a single game lost, a treble on the cards, an excellent manager who's probably too 'big' for Scottish football and the prospect of them only getting stronger next season.

It's been an exceptional season for them, no question, but it once again raises the issue of where their utter dominance leaves top flight Scottish football. From fourth place down the other teams are closer to bottom spot than the top. Is there any league on the planet where one team is so absurdly far ahead of the rest? What, really, is the point of a league where only one team can win it?

Celtic leaving the Scottish league to play in England is a solution commonly advocated but we would leave Scotland with an even lesser bargaining position with the TV companies and even less well off financially. My own preferred solution of creating a UK-wide league to add some variety to our rather stale game doesn't curry much favour on here, so what do folk think is the most viable way forward for our top flight?

I'm not sure about this bit.

We have shown this year that fans will come out to watch winning teams, no matter the standard of football.

At the moment, teams are playing for second place; it's not that long ago that they were playing for third. But, if you start the season with 6-7 teams all thinking that they have a chance of winning the league, the competition is keener, and the crowds consequently higher.

As for the TV audiences, let's not forget that our home game against United was a virtual sell-out... a game in the second division... but it was still live on telly. The product is there.

[G B Young]

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I'm not sure about this bit.

We have shown this year that fans will come out to watch winning teams, no matter the standard of football.

At the moment, teams are playing for second place; it's not that long ago that they were playing for third. But, if you start the season with 6-7 teams all thinking that they have a chance of winning the league, the competition is keener, and the crowds consequently higher.

As for the TV audiences, let's not forget that our home game against United was a virtual sell-out... a game in the second division... but it was still live on telly. The product is there.

What I meant was that without Celtic as part of the package, it's hard to imagine Sky/BT Sports would offer the same deal, irrespective of whether the league is more competitive, hence clubs would likely be worse off despite decent crowds.

While I agree the crowds ARE there, I do wonder if there would be a hollow feel to the league if its biggest club were to leave ie would there need to be an asterisk in the stats books alongside subsequent league tables to denote something like *title won post-Celtic departure? It's just my view, but once you start breaking up a league I think it would be better to go the whole hog and start something else afresh. For me that would be a UK league (and as somebody else has pointed out, Hibs would be a great away match for a lot of clubs given Edinburgh's popularity as a city) but I can't see it happening any day soon.

[DarlingtonHibee]

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30 points clear at the top of the league, not a single game lost, a treble on the cards, an excellent manager who's probably too 'big' for Scottish football and the prospect of them only getting stronger next season.

It's been an exceptional season for them, no question, but it once again raises the issue of where their utter dominance leaves top flight Scottish football. From fourth place down the other teams are closer to bottom spot than the top. Is there any league on the planet where one team is so absurdly far ahead of the rest? What, really, is the point of a league where only one team can win it?

Celtic leaving the Scottish league to play in England is a solution commonly advocated but we would leave Scotland with an even lesser bargaining position with the TV companies and even less well off financially. My own preferred solution of creating a UK-wide league to add some variety to our rather stale game doesn't curry much favour on here, so what do folk think is the most viable way forward for our top flight?

The Old Firm will never be allowed to come down here. The Police will never allow it.

[Jones28]

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The Old Firm will never be allowed to come down here. The Police will never allow it.

This, look at what happened the last time we let the Huns out their cage for a major game.

[green&left]

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This, look at what happened the last time we let the Huns out their cage for a major game.

There's about 40 police forces in England, i really doubt they'll have a say on whether two Scottish football clubs could play football down there. They won't play in England as currently there is no value to English football of having the old firm down there just now, things are booming as it is.


With regards to Celtic this season they were utter pish last season and still romped the league with 15 points....

[DarlingtonHibee]

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There's about 40 police forces in England, i really doubt they'll have a say on whether two Scottish football clubs could play football down there. They won't play in England as currently there is no value to English football of having the old firm down there just now, things are booming as it is.


With regards to Celtic this season they were utter pish last season and still romped the league with 15 points....

It was 43,maybe a few mergers since. My sources are Chief Constables.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

• Re-distribution of income via sponsorship/tv deals
• Split gate receipts
• bigger league (16 is my preference, and you can even keep the nonsense split)
• minimum of 5 players in matchday squad to be home grown on trained by that team for x number of years

All these would, over a period of time result in better younger players being produced by the country whilst hopefully bridging the gap.

IMO this Celtic team isnt even the best in the last 5 years never mind ever (and the 2003 team would wipe the floor with them). The manager of course has a significant contribution and deserves massive praise for getting the best out of his players and keeping them motivated BUT basing it on when they played for Celtic:

Forster > Gordon
Van Dijk/Denayer/Ambrose > take your pick, any current CH
Matthews/Lustig > current Lustig
Ledley > Rogic
Commons > Armstrong
Hooper > Griffiths

Granted there'll be exceptions, for example Scott Brown is arguably playing the best football of his life, Tierney, Dembele, Sinclair (he done well in England eh) but you've got to ask how many of these players can perform at the top level? John Guidetti was a "star" up here but flopped down south.

[JimBHibees]

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• Re-distribution of income via sponsorship/tv deals
• Split gate receipts
• bigger league (16 is my preference, and you can even keep the nonsense split)
• minimum of 5 players in matchday squad to be home grown on trained by that team for x number of years

All these would, over a period of time result in better younger players being produced by the country whilst hopefully bridging the gap.

IMO this Celtic team isnt even the best in the last 5 years never mind ever (and the 2003 team would wipe the floor with them). The manager of course has a significant contribution and deserves massive praise for getting the best out of his players and keeping them motivated BUT basing it on when they played for Celtic:

Forster > Gordon
Van Dijk/Denayer/Ambrose > take your pick, any current CH
Matthews/Lustig > current Lustig
Ledley > Rogic
Commons > Armstrong
Hooper > Griffiths

Granted there'll be exceptions, for example Scott Brown is arguably playing the best football of his life, Tierney, Dembele, Sinclair (he done well in England eh) but you've got to ask how many of these players can perform at the top level? John Guidetti was a "star" up here but flopped down south.

Guidetti was hardly a star in Scotland scored 8 goals. The current Celtic team have a number of excellent young talents Tierney, Dembele, Roberts but guys like Armstrong and McGregor are unrecognisable under Rodgers..

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

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Guidetti was hardly a star in Scotland scored 8 goals. The current Celtic team have a number of excellent young talents Tierney, Dembele, Roberts but guys like Armstrong and McGregor are unrecognisable under Rodgers..

Their fans slavoured over him when he was here. He actually scored 15 in all competitions. They do have excellent young talent, Roberts isnt their player and he played excellent last year when Rodgers wasn't here. McGregor actually played well last year also. Tierney and Armstrong appear to have improved significantly

[J-C]

Celtic and Rangers have dominated Scottish football since Celtic came into existence, a few teams have sneaked in every now and then and won the league and some even had a good few years where they challenged regularly, Hibs(50's & 70's) Aberdeen(Fergie) and Hearts(1890's and late 50's) but in general the OF have one most things most years.

The best we and others can expect is coming 2nd or 3rd with a very occasional league win thrown in out the blue now and then.

[Elephant Stone]

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• Re-distribution of income via sponsorship/tv deals
• Split gate receipts
• bigger league (16 is my preference, and you can even keep the nonsense split)
• minimum of 5 players in matchday squad to be home grown on trained by that team for x number of years

All these would, over a period of time result in better younger players being produced by the country whilst hopefully bridging the gap.

IMO this Celtic team isnt even the best in the last 5 years never mind ever (and the 2003 team would wipe the floor with them). The manager of course has a significant contribution and deserves massive praise for getting the best out of his players and keeping them motivated BUT basing it on when they played for Celtic:

Forster > Gordon
Van Dijk/Denayer/Ambrose > take your pick, any current CH
Matthews/Lustig > current Lustig
Ledley > Rogic
Commons > Armstrong
Hooper > Griffiths

Granted there'll be exceptions, for example Scott Brown is arguably playing the best football of his life, Tierney, Dembele, Sinclair (he done well in England eh) but you've got to ask how many of these players can perform at the top level? John Guidetti was a "star" up here but flopped down south.

Van Dijk and Wanyama are the only 2 players they've lost who'd be guaranteed a place in their current team.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

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Van Dijk and Wanyama are the only 2 players they've lost who'd be guaranteed a place in their current team.

Right enough, Wanyama totally forgot about him. Cannot agree regarding the rest of the players. The ones i quoted imo are much better than current players

[ekhibee]

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Van Dijk and Wanyama are the only 2 players they've lost who'd be guaranteed a place in their current team.

Fraser Forster would, I think he's an excellent keeper.

[El Gubbz]

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• Re-distribution of income via sponsorship/tv deals
• Split gate receipts
• bigger league (16 is my preference, and you can even keep the nonsense split)
• minimum of 5 players in matchday squad to be home grown on trained by that team for x number of years

All these would, over a period of time result in better younger players being produced by the country whilst hopefully bridging the gap.

IMO this Celtic team isnt even the best in the last 5 years never mind ever (and the 2003 team would wipe the floor with them). The manager of course has a significant contribution and deserves massive praise for getting the best out of his players and keeping them motivated BUT basing it on when they played for Celtic:

Forster > Gordon
Van Dijk/Denayer/Ambrose > take your pick, any current CH
Matthews/Lustig > current Lustig
Ledley > Rogic
Commons > Armstrong
Hooper > Griffiths

Granted there'll be exceptions, for example Scott Brown is arguably playing the best football of his life, Tierney, Dembele, Sinclair (he done well in England eh) but you've got to ask how many of these players can perform at the top level? John Guidetti was a "star" up here but flopped down south.

Speaking to a Celtc fan at work and he's crying out for all of the above points that you've mad. I never realised but the gate receipt used to be split until the OF changed the rules.

12 team league gives too many teams the fear factor when it comes to producing players - just look at how many teams have been dragged into the relegation battle this year. No one is willing to take a risk on bleeding the young players in to the squad and as a result there's hardly any decent Scottish talents emerging.

How do we go about getting the ugly sisters to split the gate receipt?

[ancient hibee]

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Speaking to a Celtc fan at work and he's crying out for all of the above points that you've mad. I never realised but the gate receipt used to be split until the OF changed the rules.

12 team league gives too many teams the fear factor when it comes to producing players - just look at how many teams have been dragged into the relegation battle this year. No one is willing to take a risk on bleeding the young players in to the squad and as a result there's hardly any decent Scottish talents emerging.

How do we go about getting the ugly sisters to split the gate receipt?

The old firm didn't change the rules.Hibs led the way.Tom Hart agitated for it for years.