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Thread: SNP nonsense

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    Feel free to correct my ignorance with some facts rather than a nodding head emo
    If you actually want to discuss this rather than just throw playground insults around, why not:

    - delete this thread
    - start a new one entitled something like - "SNP position on the EU post-independence"

    ... and try and make some points like a grown up?


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  3. #32
    @hibs.net private member Golden Fleece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    If you actually want to discuss this rather than just throw playground insults around, why not:

    - delete this thread
    - start a new one entitled something like - "SNP position on the EU post-independence"

    ... and try and make some points like a grown up?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQizNZKiyYs
    #Persevered
    Scotland can be a beacon, within these islands and beyond, for a socially just and sustainable society. Whilst there are many priorities which will require independence, there is also much that can and must be done now by the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government.

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    If you actually want to discuss this rather than just throw playground insults around, why not:

    - delete this thread
    - start a new one entitled something like - "SNP position on the EU post-independence"

    ... and try and make some points like a grown up?
    The SNP are making no sense to me , so calling it nonsense is quite appropriate and hardly a playground insult , its an observation

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member easty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    The SNP are making no sense to me , so calling it nonsense is quite appropriate and hardly a playground insult , its an observation
    By that rationale...everything you've said is nonsense.

  6. #35
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    As a neutral looking in, I do think they talk much nonsense with the whole independence issue.
    It's a nice thought to want to be like Norway, but they should look to Ireland more for the realistic country Scotland could be.. Although I know many won't want to take on the Euro.

  7. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by easty View Post
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    By that rationale...everything you've said is nonsense.
    It might be but im not the 1st minister of Scotland so me talking nonsense isn't such a big problem for the Scottish Electorate

  8. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by OsloHibs View Post
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    As a neutral looking in, I do think they talk much nonsense with the whole independence issue.
    It's a nice thought to want to be like Norway, but they should look to Ireland more for the realistic country Scotland could be.. Although I know many won't want to take on the Euro.
    The problem is policy retro-fitting.

    Logically, a party shpuld start with a problem, identify what they see as a desirable outcome and then work out how that can be achieved, and in so doing identify their policies.

    The SNP (and others) effectively start with their solution (independence) and then try amd work back to apply that solution to every problem, whether it works or doesnt.

    Their laser-like focus on indy is in many ways a big strength for the nats, but in certain situations it leads them to have to take strange positions or jump about a bit.

  9. #38
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    All I've been mostly reading on this thread is pretty much political party bashing. There is no doubt that Scotland isn't in a great position at the moment but, is any other UK country. Yes, the SNP at the moment seem to be caught between a rock and a hard place as far as brexit is concerned but, look at the state of the NHS in England and even more so in Wales, at least ours is JUST got our heads above water. Then have a look at the mess the English and Welsh education system is in regarding grammer v comprehensive schools are concerned, its a mess and Justine Greening is already in the firing line over this. Our educating system isn't perfect either, there is no doubt about it but, there has been signs of improvement with the latest figures just released stating literacy improvements. No we have issues up here there is no doubt but, it isn't any worse than anywhere else in the UK.

  10. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    The problem is policy retro-fitting.

    Logically, a party shpuld start with a problem, identify what they see as a desirable outcome and then work out how that can be achieved, and in so doing identify their policies.

    The SNP (and others) effectively start with their solution (independence) and then try amd work back to apply that solution to every problem, whether it works or doesnt.

    Their laser-like focus on indy is in many ways a big strength for the nats, but in certain situations it leads them to have to take strange positions or jump about a bit.
    Yes this is what I see too. The problems go to the back of the queue and only the benefits to the front. And many fall for it.. Everytime!

  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    It might be but im not the 1st minister of Scotland so me talking nonsense isn't such a big problem for the Scottish Electorate
    It is, however, a problem for those of us who like to look in on this forum only to read your petty dross. You come across as a bitter troll.

    As others have said, try a grown up approach. You do nothing for this forum except drive me further away than ever from voting labour again.

  12. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by DaveF View Post
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    It is, however, a problem for those of us who like to look in on this forum only to read your petty dross. You come across as a bitter troll.

    As others have said, try a grown up approach. You do nothing for this forum except drive me further away than ever from voting labour again.
    ok so calling out SNP bull**** is trolling . Calling out tory/labour bull**** is praiseworthy ?

    is that how it works on here

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    ok so calling out SNP bull**** is trolling . Calling out tory/labour bull**** is praiseworthy ?

    is that how it works on here
    In many ways the SNP have a cult like following from some, in their mind the party can do no wrong whatsoever and are beyond criticism.

    Independence to them has no pitfalls and is the answer to everything that society asks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OsloHibs View Post
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    Yes this is what I see too. The problems go to the back of the queue and only the benefits to the front. And many fall for it.. Everytime!
    I dont like the phrase fall for it - it suggests being duped, which i genuinely dont think parties set out to do.

    The SNP have been a highly strategic, focused and slick election machine in recent years, modelled very much on the new labour approach. Strict discipline, well funded, good people wih a unwavering focus on what they wanted to achieve - and most importantly - how it would be achieved.

    I think under sturgeon, they have lost some of that sure footedness amd broad appeal, they have lost quite a few of the key advisers and strategists from salmond's time, and the indyref result and the WM success actually helped muddy the water about how they could achieve their goal.

    Ad they worked this out, the time marches on and as with every party of government, they hollow-out their own reserves of talented people and vision amd their record is chipped-away at by the atttition of run of the mill problems of governing that you can no longer blame on your predecessors.

    I think its clear the SNP are starting to suffer from these favtors now. The problem is with such extensive gains into non-traditional nat territory, they are more vulnerable to losses which can create a sense of decline or crisis.

    They arent there yet, but they have already fallen backward at Holyrood, and are likely to do so again at Westminster, amd while the council elections went well, they did miss a few of their main objectives.

    Apols, a very long winded way of saying that i dont think people were wrong to back the SNP - they were head amd shoulders better than anyone when they came into power full of ideas, and ambition and energy. But they cant sustain it, no party can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    In many ways the SNP have a cult like following from some, in their mind the party can do no wrong whatsoever and are beyond criticism.

    Independence to them has no pitfalls and is the answer to everything that society asks.
    The zeal of the convert.

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    The opposition parties ramble on about the SNPs apparent obsession with independence, because it suits their narrative to do so. They even made the local elections all about "stopping another referendum", while the SNP and the Scottish Greens actually focused on local policies.

    I will be voting SNP next month, because I know what their policies are. I haven't a clue what Scottish Labours, Conservatives and Liberal Democrats policies are. Every leaflet I get through my door from them is about "stopping the SNP". Nothing else.

    Of course the SNP will talk about independence, they are the "national" party of Scotland. But rather than talking up unity and the benefits of Scotland remaining part of the United Kingdom, the unionist parties are all about stopping independence, they have nothing else to offer and it's boring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OsloHibs View Post
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    As a neutral looking in, I do think they talk much nonsense with the whole independence issue.
    It's a nice thought to want to be like Norway, but they should look to Ireland more for the realistic country Scotland could be.. Although I know many won't want to take on the Euro.
    Ireland, the strongest economy in the European Union? Yes please!

  18. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    The opposition parties ramble on about the SNPs apparent obsession with independence, because it suits their narrative to do so. They even made the local elections all about "stopping another referendum", while the SNP and the Scottish Greens actually focused on local policies.

    I will be voting SNP next month, because I know what their policies are. I haven't a clue what Scottish Labours, Conservatives and Liberal Democrats policies are. Every leaflet I get through my door from them is about "stopping the SNP". Nothing else.

    Of course the SNP will talk about independence, they are the "national" party of Scotland. But rather than talking up unity and the benefits of Scotland remaining part of the United Kingdom, the unionist parties are all about stopping independence, they have nothing else to offer and it's boring.
    What are the SNPs policies for this election? When was their manifesto published?

  19. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    In many ways the SNP have a cult like following from some, in their mind the party can do no wrong whatsoever and are beyond criticism.

    Independence to them has no pitfalls and is the answer to everything that society asks.
    Your chronic cult patter is tiresome. It's some size of a cult considering they have been in gvment for ten years. Or is it just nationalists that you group as a cult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    What are the SNPs policies for this election? When was their manifesto published?
    Their manifesto will barely differ from their 2015 manifesto and nor should it. They'll be a stronger commitment to education and the NHS but the manifesto will read pretty much the same overall.

    Or are you suspecting major changes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    In many ways the SNP have a cult like following from some, in their mind the party can do no wrong whatsoever and are beyond criticism.

    Independence to them has no pitfalls and is the answer to everything that society asks.
    Not sure about a cult following, but we certainly have a kilt following.

    On a more serious note, if you want to talk about "cult followings" look no further than Ruth Davidson and her band of masonic orangemen which she continues to pander to with her anti-IRA sentiments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    Their manifesto will barely differ from their 2015 manifesto and nor should it. They'll be a stronger commitment to education and the NHS but the manifesto will read pretty much the same overall.

    Or are you suspecting major changes?
    Probably not - im not sure anyone has had time for major changes - amd it certainly worked well last time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Probably not - im not sure anyone has had time for major changes - amd it certainly worked well last time!
    2 years is hardly enough time to effect change in a country, particuarly as a minority administration. However, this is a General Election, not a Scottish Election, it's about Scotlands influence at Westminster, which has always been next to zero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    2 years is hardly enough time to effect change in a country, particuarly as a minority administration. However, this is a General Election, not a Scottish Election, it's about Scotlands influence at Westminster, which has always been next to zero.
    I dont follow? I was saying that the SNP manifesto from 2015 worked very well, so it wont need much changing.

    I disagree on the second point, which is clearly nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I dont follow? I was saying that the SNP manifesto from 2015 worked very well, so it wont need much changing.

    I disagree on the second point, which is clearly nonsense.
    I thought you were being sarcastic.

    If you disagree with my second point, then by all means, prove me wrong. Show me what a great influence Scotland has at Westminster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    Not sure about a cult following, but we certainly have a kilt following.

    On a more serious note, if you want to talk about "cult followings" look no further than Ruth Davidson and her band of masonic orangemen which she continues to pander to with her anti-IRA sentiments.
    I should have added that some SNP supporters seem determined to drag the question of Scottish Independence onto sectarian battle lines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    ok so calling out SNP bull**** is trolling . Calling out tory/labour bull**** is praiseworthy ?

    is that how it works on here
    I didn't say anything of the sort and fine well you know it.

    You carry on with your silly wee digs, given you seem incapable of reasoned, mature debate. I'll stick you on ignore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    I should have added that some SNP supporters seem determined to drag the question of Scottish Independence onto sectarian battle lines.
    Really? Can you actually give any examples of this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    ... it's about Scotlands influence at Westminster, which has always been next to zero.
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    I disagree on the second point, which is clearly nonsense.
    It's a shame you disagree, since an understanding of this point is crucial to understanding Scotland's desire for Independence. The fact that you disagree speaks volumes.

  30. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
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    I should have added that some SNP supporters seem determined to drag the question of Scottish Independence onto sectarian battle lines.
    yup unlike Ruth

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    Quote Originally Posted by High-On-Hibs View Post
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    Really? Can you actually give any examples of this?
    There are lots on here if you read back on related threads saying things like all the Huns, Rangers, Orangemen vote Tory and back the union.

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