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Thread: SNP nonsense

  1. #571
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    There's at least 50 folk there. Must check the BBC website for confirmation.


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  3. #572
    @hibs.net private member weecounty hibby's Avatar
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    I was there today and the crowd was amazing, I would estimate probably about 50,000 maybe even more. There was a small counter protest by about 20 union jack waving, very angry, red faced, eejits. They were in complete contrast to the colourful, happy, exciting march. It will happen one day soon


  4. #574
    @hibs.net private member greenlex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Belter.

  5. #575
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    Egg.jpg

  6. #576
    @hibs.net private member EH54's Avatar
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    Couldn't make the march but looked fantastic much bigger turn out that I expected. The movement continues to grow I remember the one in 2012 well think the organizers figure for this was 14,000 and was reported around 9,000 compared to now where even the lowest numbers of 35,000 is impressive for a movement that is apparently dead.
    Carpe Diem

  7. #577
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    I usually check the headlines each day on the News Now site. I noticed a while ago that the Daily Express never misses a day to have an "SNP bad" leader.
    FFS, even the Mail and Torygraph stop to take a breather once in a while. It's at the laughable stage now.

  8. #578
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    See those pesky Nationalist *******s are forcing a 3% rise on lots of NHS Staff.

    It's a scandal I tell ye.


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  9. #579
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronaldo7 View Post
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    See those pesky Nationalist *******s are forcing a 3% rise on lots of NHS Staff.

    It's a scandal I tell ye.
    I see you've posted this on a couple of threads.

    The unions said that Scottish NHS workers had suffered a 15% cut in real terms since 2010. Are they lying?

    They also called for a 3.9% rise this year and an additional 800 pounds to match increases in the cost of living - that's going to be a bit more than 3% isn't it?
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  10. #580
    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
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    I usually check the headlines each day on the News Now site. I noticed a while ago that the Daily Express never misses a day to have an "SNP bad" leader.
    FFS, even the Mail and Torygraph stop to take a breather once in a while. It's at the laughable stage now.
    Totally agree an absolute onslaught, shameful in the extreme.

  11. #581
    @hibs.net private member ronaldo7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    I see you've posted this on a couple of threads.

    The unions said that Scottish NHS workers had suffered a 15% cut in real terms since 2010. Are they lying?

    They also called for a 3.9% rise this year and an additional 800 pounds to match increases in the cost of living - that's going to be a bit more than 3% isn't it?
    I have.

    Are you not happy to see nurses in Scotland getting paid more than nurses in other parts of the UK? Maybe we should just leave the 1% pay cap in place and forget about them.

    We can maybe get those nurses in England and Wales to catch up, by putting pressure on those administrations to get their act together.

    Yes, things have been bad for a while, I thought even you, with your Nationalist tendencies 😉 would find it within yourself to see the good in this story.

    Then again...


    SCOTLAND CAN.

  12. #582
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Not seen anybody commenting on the reshuffle yet, I'm curious as to what our nationalist brethren have to say about it.

    It looks like Robison, Brown and Constance have been told to resign or be fired, on the same day the SNP shelved their flagship piece of legislation on education, because Cosla and the unions said it was a shambles. And Humza Yousaf moved from the Transport portfolio where he made a car crash (no pun intended) of things.

    A bunch of other junior ministers also got told to quit, including Maureen Watt, the minister with responsibility for mental health. That's fitting because in the 2000s Scotland led the way in progressive legislation relating to mental health. The ten-year national strategy launched last year is insipid though, lacking the detail that will drive improvement and change and far too much of a medical model.

    Robison's departure is neatly accompanied by the publication of the independent report into falsification of waiting times in NHS Lothian. The health service in Scotland is in a shambles, NHS Lothian missing every target going, NHS Tayside using charitable donations to fund core costs. The accountability doesn't stop with Robison though, Sturgeone had the portfolio before her and as FM should be taking responsibility.
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  13. #583
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    So Health and Education a shambles. I am sure someone will be along soon to tell us how it's Westminsters fault?

  14. #584
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    Not seen anybody commenting on the reshuffle yet, I'm curious as to what our nationalist brethren have to say about it.

    It looks like Robison, Brown and Constance have been told to resign or be fired, on the same day the SNP shelved their flagship piece of legislation on education, because Cosla and the unions said it was a shambles. And Humza Yousaf moved from the Transport portfolio where he made a car crash (no pun intended) of things.

    A bunch of other junior ministers also got told to quit, including Maureen Watt, the minister with responsibility for mental health. That's fitting because in the 2000s Scotland led the way in progressive legislation relating to mental health. The ten-year national strategy launched last year is insipid though, lacking the detail that will drive improvement and change and far too much of a medical model.

    Robison's departure is neatly accompanied by the publication of the independent report into falsification of waiting times in NHS Lothian. The health service in Scotland is in a shambles, NHS Lothian missing every target going, NHS Tayside using charitable donations to fund core costs. The accountability doesn't stop with Robison though, Sturgeone had the portfolio before her and as FM should be taking responsibility.
    Not much that can be said really. Sturgeons years in charge has proven to be rather insipid with key areas like education and health appearing to go backwards and economic growth well behind even the much berated U.K.

    Interesting that her statement had Brexit as the focus, she must realise that trying to flog that one as the driver for the reshuffle just makes her look all the more evasive.

    The lack of accountability on the NHS Tayside debacle is rather typical I say and is somewhat wearisome.

    And as for the Education reforms, well whether they are good or bad thatís a total mess.

    Thatís said did look at some of the proposals agreed with the councils...they contained the revolutionary agreement that schools should be empowered to make the decisions that most affect outcomes for students and even more amazing is that councils can intervene of the head breaks statutory, financial or contractual obligations! I mean pheeeeeewwww how did they come up with such transformational ideas?

  15. #585
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Not much that can be said really. Sturgeons years in charge has proven to be rather insipid with key areas like education and health appearing to go backwards and economic growth well behind even the much berated U.K.

    Interesting that her statement had Brexit as the focus, she must realise that trying to flog that one as the driver for the reshuffle just makes her look all the more evasive.

    The lack of accountability on the NHS Tayside debacle is rather typical I say and is somewhat wearisome.

    And as for the Education reforms, well whether they are good or bad thatís a total mess.

    Thatís said did look at some of the proposals agreed with the councils...they contained the revolutionary agreement that schools should be empowered to make the decisions that most affect outcomes for students and even more amazing is that councils can intervene of the head breaks statutory, financial or contractual obligations! I mean pheeeeeewwww how did they come up with such transformational ideas?
    I've always found that a general test of whether something is a mess is if it unites both Cosla and the unions in opposition. Especially nowadays, where Cosla isn't essentially a Labour body.

    One of the big issues with the proposals is that headteachers are seriously overworked as it is. The government is rolling out funding to increase the levels of early years care, practically doubling what they currently fund for 3-4 year-olds and eligible 2-year olds. That's fine in principle, though actually you might disagree about that - the degree to which the state is shaping children's thinking at a critical age in terms of their intellectual and social development

    The point is that the funding is there to pay for the provision. Whether the people are there to actually staff the provision is another thing. More importantly, primary heads are expected to take on management responsibility for this doubling of provision where it is delivered within the school setting, which is the default because the private sector isn't there in scale or size in significant parts of the country. These are primary heads who are already overworked, with shortages of principal teachers. It's just as well the Named Person legislation was shelved as that would have been impossible to implement.

    The reality is that policy is being developed in silos and while it may have good intentions, it's almost being set up to fail. The two core functions that have always sat within Scottish legislation, health and education, the two most important things in people's lives, are being utterly, utterly mismanaged.
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  16. #586
    Replacing Sturgeon's Snp useless no hopers with yet more of Sturgeon's Snp probably even worse useless no hopers is tragic. They'll simply stumble on inventing ever more falsehoods of big bad Westminster being to blame while continuing to fail Scotland and its folk within in their bleak and ever more oppressive manner until we finally have the opportunity to throw these political fraudsters out. Hopefully to be replaced by Richard Leonard's Scottish Labour Party who will work with the rest of the UK in delivering real socialist policies not just here in Scotland but across the whole of the UK.

    Sturgeon's entire Snp needs to be ejected.

    Mon Scottish Labour


  17. #587
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    The reality is that policy is being developed in silos and while it may have good intentions, it's almost being set up to fail. The two core functions that have always sat within Scottish legislation, health and education, the two most important things in people's lives, are being utterly, utterly mismanaged.
    I'd like to add transport to that list. Whilst a lot of funding comes from WM, Transport Scotland has not been getting everything right recently.. I can't put too much blame at the feet of Humza Yousaf as there should be enough knowledgeable types within the ministry to keep him and policy on-track but lately there's been a lot of new faces coming in to the Scotrail Alliance that know more about spreadsheets than running regular and reliable services.

  18. #588
    As long as independence, or another referendum on independence, remains almost within touching distance there will be no real critique of SNP performance from their own core support. Ultimately the core support are those who have to hold any party to account.

    'Judge us on education' or whatever is just an empty phrase to the extent that as long as people believe Nicola Sturgeon can deliver the raison d'etre then almost every other issue is redundant. The opposition parties need to shoulder a chunk of the blame because for the best part of a decade there hasn't been an opposition worth talking about.

  19. #589
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    The two core functions that have always sat within Scottish legislation, health and education, the two most important things in people's lives, are being utterly, utterly mismanaged.
    Out of interest, can you point to any Government department anywhere in any part of the UK which is managing its function well? I'm just wondering if there's anyone out there that meets your standards. Serious question.

  20. #590
    @hibs.net private member weecounty hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    As long as independence, or another referendum on independence, remains almost within touching distance there will be no real critique of SNP performance from their own core support. Ultimately the core support are those who have to hold any party to account.

    'Judge us on education' or whatever is just an empty phrase to the extent that as long as people believe Nicola Sturgeon can deliver the raison d'etre then almost every other issue is redundant. The opposition parties need to shoulder a chunk of the blame because for the best part of a decade there hasn't been an opposition worth talking about.
    As a lifelong supporter of the SNP you are 100% correct for me. I will keep voting SNP until the time that Scotland is an independent nation or Scottish Labour go back to their roots and support Scottish independence. Could the SNP government do better? Of course they could. Could Labour have done better when they were in power? Of course they could. The SNP vote for me and for the many of my friends who also vote that way is a means to an end, we want and firmly believe in an independent Scotland. Ironically probably 90% of us would vote Labour in an independent Scotland.
    You are also spot on when you say that the opposition has been incredibly weak in the last ten years and still are, no matter how much one particular poster on here would have you believe that Richard Leonard is the new Kier Hardie

  21. #591
    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    Out of interest, can you point to any Government department anywhere in any part of the UK which is managing its function well? I'm just wondering if there's anyone out there that meets your standards. Serious question.
    Better accepting the fact Sturgeon's Snp are a complete calamitous shambles as a party supposed to be running our country. There's absolutely no point trying to deflect attention away or point elsewhere.

    Its become transparently clear to most folk that while the Snp are constantly engaged in stoking party political tensions with Westminster that they are failing Scotland by being utterly inept at governance.

    Mon Scottish Labour!


  22. #592
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    If people are dissatisfied with the SNP, vote them out.

    They do, time and time again keep getting re-elected.

    J

  23. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    Better accepting the fact Sturgeon's Snp are a complete calamitous shambles as a party supposed to be running our country. There's absolutely no point trying to deflect attention away or point elsewhere.

    Its become transparently clear to most folk that while the Snp are constantly engaged in stoking party political tensions with Westminster they are failing Scotland by being utterly inept at governance.

    Mon Scottish Labour!

    Thank you for your insight. I've ignored it already.

  24. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by weecounty hibby View Post
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    You are also spot on when you say that the opposition has been incredibly weak in the last ten years and still are, no matter how much one particular poster on here would have you believe that Richard Leonard is the new Kier Hardie
    I think you mean Keir Hardy Ö


  25. #595
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    Out of interest, can you point to any Government department anywhere in any part of the UK which is managing its function well? I'm just wondering if there's anyone out there that meets your standards. Serious question.
    Fair question and I'll do my best to respond.

    This is a thread about various things, but essentially how the SNP government has managed things. The two main things being health and education, which are the two things that government, either directly or through the health boards and local authorities spends the lion's share of the money on. One could argue that overall finance should be included, though that's not a spend as such, it's more a policy matter. Anyway, the Growth Commission, staffed by Nats, has said that Scotland would essentially face another ten years of austerity under SNP proposals so it seems fair to say that the fiscal outlook isn't cheery.

    As far as it goes, I think health and social care is in a worse state in England but I would caveat that by saying England is two years ahead in the impact of cuts on local authorities. We have worse to come. Social care is the biggest spend in local authorities and is being desperately squeezed. At the same time, the local authorities have to cut everything else to meet their statutory obligations in relation to education and social care.

    When you think about it, it adds up. If you are a frail pensioner, you need your pavements to be clear and gritted in the winter, you need your council to have an advice line about your entitlements to benefits, you need your library to offer internet access because you can't afford a contract, you benefit from the lunch club that keeps you connected to people, you benefit from the welfare transport that takes you there and drops you back home. These are all the kinds of services councils offered but have had to retract because they don't have the money. And these are all the kinds of services, that in combination, help prevent older people from having to access the health and social care services that they end up needing, because there wasn't the early intervention or preventative input.

    Things have got worse in health and education under the SNP's watch. By their measures. They need to own that and take responsibility. The fact that it might be just as bad or worse in Cardiff or Coventry doesn't really matter.
    Last edited by Mibbes Aye; 26-06-2018 at 08:46 PM.
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  26. #596
    @hibs.net private member weecounty hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgnsh70 View Post
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    Better accepting the fact Sturgeon's Snp are a complete calamitous shambles as a party supposed to be running our country. There's absolutely no point trying to deflect attention away or point elsewhere.

    Its become transparently clear to most folk that while the Snp are constantly engaged in stoking party political tensions with Westminster that they are failing Scotland by being utterly inept at governance.

    Mon Scottish Labour!

    It really hasn't become increasingly clear to anyone if you look at the opinion polls. SNP still ahead and your fabulous labour party still third. Behind the Tories. In Scotland. When the UK Tory govt are widely accepted as being on of the worst ever. No matter how much you cheerleader for them Scottish Labour are still a state. The government could and should be doing better but until you share with us what the magical labour policies are then you won't be picking up anytime soon.

  27. #597
    @hibs.net private member weecounty hibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grunt View Post
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    I think you mean Keir Hardy Ö

    Yip but only if you are totally stupid and ignorant of political history 😂

  28. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    As long as independence, or another referendum on independence, remains almost within touching distance there will be no real critique of SNP performance from their own core support. Ultimately the core support are those who have to hold any party to account.

    'Judge us on education' or whatever is just an empty phrase to the extent that as long as people believe Nicola Sturgeon can deliver the raison d'etre then almost every other issue is redundant. The opposition parties need to shoulder a chunk of the blame because for the best part of a decade there hasn't been an opposition worth talking about.
    I'm a former member of the SNP, have voted for them every time I have had the opportunity, voted Yes in 2014 and will probably continue in the same manner in future, so it would be fair to say that I am part of their "core support".

    I think their performance in government leaves a lot to be desired. On education they are a shambles, I am appalled by the state of what has gone on there. Next up I'd say would their performance regarding policing - absolutely atrocious, really disappointed with "police Scotland" and how they are doing there. Health and the NHS - very poor indeed.

    Yet I say I would vote for them again, and I would. Because I think they are doing better than any of the alternatives would, and I think that they would continue to be a preferable option in the future. In order to actually do a good job, they need Independence from the UK and for Scotland to be a forward-thinking outward-looking member of a much-improved EU.

    There is a malignancy in modern politics and it is the continued delusion that you can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Our public services are anything but world class, yet they cost us a fortune. We have a lot of old, ill, needy people to support and we're going to need to get pretty creative in terms of how we do increase tax revenues. That is going to be very difficult indeed in "Brexit Britain" as our chums down South "take their country back" and make it ever more difficult for us to get people into Scotland to help chuck more tax into the pot.

    I think I am agreeing with the point above PB, albeit I am coming at it from a difficult angle.

    How exactly do people like myself hold them to account? I am critical of them everywhere I can be, but I won't go as far as vote for someone who I think will do an inferior job.

  29. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    Things have got worse in health and education under the SNP's watch. By their measures. They need to own that and take responsibility. The fact that it might be just as bad or worse in Cardiff or Coventry doesn't really matter.
    This is where I beg to differ. I think this is absolutely crucial to the question of SNP performance.

    All around the UK public services are struggling due to central Government cutbacks. Austerity has had an appalling effect on the services available to children, the sick, pensioners, and those out of work or on benefits. I can't understand how the UK is struggling quite so badly but that's a question for another thread.

    My view is that despite this, the Scottish Government under the watch of the SNP are doing better in the provision of public services than any other devolved Government and better than England & Wales. It is not perfect, far from it. But I think they are doing better than their peer Governments. I'm sure there are statistics that show this, just as there will be statistics that show the opposite.

  30. #600
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    As long as independence, or another referendum on independence, remains almost within touching distance there will be no real critique of SNP performance from their own core support. Ultimately the core support are those who have to hold any party to account.

    'Judge us on education' or whatever is just an empty phrase to the extent that as long as people believe Nicola Sturgeon can deliver the raison d'etre then almost every other issue is redundant. The opposition parties need to shoulder a chunk of the blame because for the best part of a decade there hasn't been an opposition worth talking about.
    Spot on. Again
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