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Thread: SNP nonsense

  1. #481
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xyz23jc View Post
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    Sorry amigo! Just trying to be funny.... and obviously failing! No offence meant.
    None taken whatsoever,,,,


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  3. #482
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    Allegations of him being physically aggressive to another party member in the back of a taxi during a party conference or such like


    https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/exclusive-snp-suspends-edinburgh-councillor-lewis-ritchie
    Sounds like bollox...

  4. #483
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Sounds like bollox...
    Sounds like any other work shindig where alcohol may or may not have been consumed, handbags at 10 paces, unfortunate blot on the young mans record though.

  5. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    Sounds like any other work shindig where alcohol may or may not have been consumed, handbags at 10 paces, unfortunate blot on the young mans record though.
    Exactly. We want our politicians to be more normal, and then pillory them when they are.

  6. #485
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    Itís time we allowed politicians to live. All of us make mistakes and have done daft things over the years but we expect politicians to live a sheltered life then we complain they are not in touch with reality.

  7. #486
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Itís time we allowed politicians to live. All of us make mistakes and have done daft things over the years but we expect politicians to live a sheltered life then we complain they are not in touch with reality.
    I agree to a point. However I'd expect those responsible for forming our Laws respect them.

    Fair enough low level stuff like parking tickets, handbags at 10 paces sort of stuff*. But I think there shouldn't be any of them there convicted of crimes of dishonesty, theft or violence*.

    How can you expect the public to respect the law of the lawmakers don't?
    Space to let

  8. #487
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Councillor Ritchie leaves the SNP, and in doing so means the SNP now hold the same number of seats as the Tories,,,,and I thought the council was already in a mess!!

  9. #488
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    Slight change of subject but the SNP plans to merge Police Scotland and the BTP have been delayed indefinitely. No one in the rail industry or BTP wants this to go ahead, itís time it was scrapped not delayed

  10. #489
    @hibs.net private member speedy_gonzales's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Slight change of subject but the SNP plans to merge Police Scotland and the BTP have been delayed indefinitely. No one in the rail industry or BTP wants this to go ahead, itís time it was scrapped not delayed
    Delighted to hear this, was speaking to a couple of Hornby's a week past Friday, and although they were professional about the subject I picked up severe reservations.
    I was never clear on what benefits the merger had but I could see drawbacks from a railway infrastructure point of view, in relation to both rail crime and incidents.
    Last edited by speedy_gonzales; 21-02-2018 at 11:36 AM.

  11. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedy_gonzales View Post
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    Delighted to hear this, was speaking to a couple of Hornby's a week past Friday, and although they were professional about the subject I picked up severe reservations.
    I was never clear on what benefits the merger had but I could see drawbacks from a railway infrastructure point of view, in relation to both trail crime and incidents.
    Thatís the problem no one can see the benefits only the SNP seem to think itís a good idea. Iíd be happy for a Transport Police under the control of Holyrood as a compromise but in reality thereís no need to break up the BTP

  12. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Thatís the problem no one can see the benefits only the SNP seem to think itís a good idea. Iíd be happy for a Transport Police under the control of Holyrood as a compromise but in reality thereís no need to break up the BTP
    On the flip side why does Transport (or as it seems just the railways) need a separate force?

  13. #492
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    On the flip side why does Transport (or as it seems just the railways) need a separate force?
    I'm not sure what the merits and demerits are of a stand-alone force. I'm guessing that the arguments for will include reference to specialisation - the BTP must deal with hundreds of suicides a year that need managed respectfully but also in a way that doesn't stop the network from ceasing to function.
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  14. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    On the flip side why does Transport (or as it seems just the railways) need a separate force?
    The railway has hundreds of different laws and has different issues to deal with in including suicides. If the BRITISH Transport Police were not called BRITISH does anyone think the SNP would be interested in dissolving them?

  15. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Slight change of subject but the SNP plans to merge Police Scotland and the BTP have been delayed indefinitely. No one in the rail industry or BTP wants this to go ahead, itís time it was scrapped not delayed
    Good. The needless and botched creation of Police Scotland has been bad enough, no need to add to the mess.
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  16. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    I'm not sure what the merits and demerits are of a stand-alone force. I'm guessing that the arguments for will include reference to specialisation - the BTP must deal with hundreds of suicides a year that need managed respectfully but also in a way that doesn't stop the network from ceasing to function.
    Yeah maybe true but how is that nay different to running an organisation that has beat bobbies and murder detectives and specialist firearms units. Substantially different needs within the same structure.

    Surely the BTP element would just be another Ďdivisioní with its own special training requirements but without the need for a whole separate organisation to run it.

    Maybe there is some reason why the BTP need their own stand alone functions and processes to work out how many people they need and what shifts they will work but Iím not convinced...my guess is that the existing structure suits the vested interests of those within it and they will resist being subsumed into a bigger organisation to protect their Ďspecialí status.

    More of a gut feel than anything else but Iím not buying the need for a wholly separate organisation to police just the railways when we have one organisation to police absolutely everything else.

  17. #496
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Yeah maybe true but how is that nay different to running an organisation that has beat bobbies and murder detectives and specialist firearms units. Substantially different needs within the same structure.

    Surely the BTP element would just be another ‘division’ with its own special training requirements but without the need for a whole separate organisation to run it.

    Maybe there is some reason why the BTP need their own stand alone functions and processes to work out how many people they need and what shifts they will work but I’m not convinced...my guess is that the existing structure suits the vested interests of those within it and they will resist being subsumed into a bigger organisation to protect their ‘special’ status.

    More of a gut feel than anything else but I’m not buying the need for a wholly separate organisation to police just the railways when we have one organisation to police absolutely everything else.
    Not disagreeing but looking at it UK-wide we don't have one organisation to police absolutely everything else and as M59 may have alluded to, centralisation hasn't worked out that well in Scotland. .

    It's also curious because transport police/transit police aren't unique to here. I can understand that terrorist attacks have often focused on train and underground systems so there's definitely a counter-terrorism angle with a particular bent (i.e. the distinct nature of the locations where the attacks will take place) that definitely predicates towards specially-trained teams.

    I think a better comparison yet might be with other policing structures that are dedicated towards infrastructure - the Civil Nuclear Constabulary and the Central Motorways Police Group as examples - where there's a high level of specialism and it is pragmatic to have cross-boundary working, whether regional, or UK-wide, rather than devolving responsibility to local level.

    With regard to the point about vested interests, I'm not sure how politically adept the senior officers in BTP are but I wouldn't be surprised if they and their status also held the support of both the RMT and the rail operators. Which makes a powerful combination.
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  18. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    Not disagreeing but looking at it UK-wide we don't have one organisation to police absolutely everything else and as M59 may have alluded to, centralisation hasn't worked out that well in Scotland. .

    It's also curious because transport police/transit police aren't unique to here. I can understand that terrorist attacks have often focused on train and underground systems so there's definitely a counter-terrorism angle with a particular bent (i.e. the distinct nature of the locations where the attacks will take place) that definitely predicates towards specially-trained teams.

    I think a better comparison yet might be with other policing structures that are dedicated towards infrastructure - the Civil Nuclear Constabulary and the Central Motorways Police Group as examples - where there's a high level of specialism and it is pragmatic to have cross-boundary working, whether regional, or UK-wide, rather than devolving responsibility to local level.

    With regard to the point about vested interests, I'm not sure how politically adept the senior officers in BTP are but I wouldn't be surprised if they and their status also held the support of both the RMT and the rail operators. Which makes a powerful combination.
    I think you have probably hit the nail on he head with your last paragraph!

    As it is Iím not against specialisation but I suppose I have a natural tendency to see vested interests and resistance to change rather than genuine reasons when I see some of this type of stuff....which maybe says more about me than the merits or otherwise of breaking up he BTP

    But that said Police Scotland has hardly been a roaring success so maybe the BTP is best left alone if itís doing its job just fine as it is (again of which I have no idea if it is or not! )

  19. #498
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    I think you have probably hit the nail on he head with your last paragraph!

    As it is Iím not against specialisation but I suppose I have a natural tendency to see vested interests and resistance to change rather than genuine reasons when I see some of this type of stuff....which maybe says more about me than the merits or otherwise of breaking up he BTP

    But that said Police Scotland has hardly been a roaring success so maybe the BTP is best left alone if itís doing its job just fine as it is (again of which I have no idea if it is or not! )
    In fairness, that's usually my starting point when there's contestation about change too - "Cui bono?" and all that
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  20. #499
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
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    Re. this proposed bridge to Northern Ireland?
    How serious is this latest proposal? Can I suggest it's a bit of skullduggery by the SNP stirring it up re. the EU border problem in Ireland.
    If the border there remains open post Brexit and we have a bridge link, well.....

  21. #500
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    Anyone know what Mark McDonald has actually done? Thereís only rumours of him being a sex pest but no actual detail. It seems strange that Sturgeon wants him out of Parliament but the SNP refuse to release the charges made against him.

  22. #501
    @hibs.net private member Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Anyone know what Mark McDonald has actually done? Thereís only rumours of him being a sex pest but no actual detail. It seems strange that Sturgeon wants him out of Parliament but the SNP refuse to release the charges made against him.
    The Times supposedly ran copies of text messages he sent but you need to subscribe to see them.
    Space to let

  23. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky View Post
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    Anyone know what Mark McDonald has actually done? Thereís only rumours of him being a sex pest but no actual detail. It seems strange that Sturgeon wants him out of Parliament but the SNP refuse to release the charges made against him.
    Whatever it was his victim is still to return to work I believe. Did he ever hand back his golden goodbye payment , seems a bit much getting a pay off when he basically keeps his day job.

  24. #503
    Latest polls from Ipsos MORI/STV:

    Indy?: Y 48 N 52

    Want ref within 3 years?: Y 47 N 53

    UK Westminster VI:

    SNP 39
    Lab 26
    Con 25
    Lib 6
    Grn 4

  25. #504
    The numbers for age are striking:

    Under 55: Y 55 N 45
    Over 55: Y 36 N 64

  26. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    The numbers for age are striking:

    Under 55: Y 55 N 45
    Over 55: Y 36 N 64
    Just a matter of time then?

  27. #506
    A few more beasts from the east and the jobs done.

  28. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by IGRIGI View Post
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    A few more beasts from the east and the jobs done.
    Wow.

    I actually laughed at this, as i assume it is tongue-in-cheek.

    However these types of stats make the very unsafe assumption that voters intentions dont alter as they age. I would suggest they often do. So it is just as possible that our ageing population might make a yes vote more difficult in the future.

  29. #508
    @hibs.net private member johnbc70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    Latest polls from Ipsos MORI/STV:

    Indy?: Y 48 N 52

    Want ref within 3 years?: Y 47 N 53

    UK Westminster VI:

    SNP 39
    Lab 26
    Con 25
    Lib 6
    Grn 4
    So the majority of people in Scotland don't want independence and the majority or people don't want another referendum.

    Surely the SNP would have been hoping for more based on the last few years.

  30. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by johnbc70 View Post
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    So the majority of people in Scotland don't want independence and the majority or people don't want another referendum.

    Surely the SNP would have been hoping for more based on the last few years.
    They probably would. But then again the Unionist side would've hoped that the referendum defeat and subsequent oil price collapse would make this all go away.

    On the surface it looks like a relatively static picture but underneath the data shows a N->Y movement from Remainers and a Y->N movement from Leavers.

    If it was me I would pitch an Indy Yes vote as continuing EEA membership with the intention to accede to full EU but only after endorsement by a subsequent referendum. Gives both sides of the EU argument the chance to have that fight later.

  31. #510
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
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    Wow.

    I actually laughed at this, as i assume it is tongue-in-cheek.

    However these types of stats make the very unsafe assumption that voters intentions dont alter as they age. I would suggest they often do. So it is just as possible that our ageing population might make a yes vote more difficult in the future.
    The natural caution with age argument was kind of torpedoed by the EU vote, where the older leavers seem to have been content to throw caution to the wind and risk economic meltdown in an almost certainly futile attempt to wind the clock back to the Britain of their childhoods.

    The strongest correlation of Yes/No is declaration of national identity as Scot/Brit and Brit identification soars as you go up in age. Nothing is inevitable, but unless/until the UK side finds a way to make the young people of Scotland buy in to the concept of Britishness, it does look like we're on Tam Dalyell's famous motorway with no exits.

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