hibs.net Messageboard

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 61 to 72 of 72

Thread: Politics

  1. #61
    Testimonial Due
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,866
    Quote Originally Posted by HiBremian View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yet they voted overwhelmingly for Clem. Clue - definitions of "hard left" have shifted radically to the right. Though I concede he was no pacifist. Maybe retaining the macho Trident would do the trick?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    The end of ww2 must have had some sort affect too.


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #62
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brandenburg
    Age
    51
    Posts
    8,778
    There's been a change in coverage the last few days. I've seen a lot more of Corbyn in the MSM and they're actually running with his politics rather than just pointing out how incredibly inept he is. It probably has something to do with even handed coverage prior to an election but the cynic in me can't help but think if Corbyn was to close the gap it would be the better story.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There's been a change in coverage the last few days. I've seen a lot more of Corbyn in the MSM and they're actually running with his politics rather than just pointing out how incredibly inept he is. It probably has something to do with even handed coverage prior to an election but the cynic in me can't help but think if Corbyn was to close the gap it would be the better story.
    I'm curious to see which of the print media run with Buzzfeeds 'fake news' story today and tomorrow. Corbyn asked, very clearly, if he'll continue as leader if Labour lose, Corbyn gives a clear positive answer, Buzzfeed run the story, Corbyn denies he said it and limits Buzzfeed access to his campaign, Buzzfeed, awkwardly for Corbyn, release the audio of the interview which plays out word for word how they printed it....

    It's a story the press would have been all over a week or 2 ago so if there is a softening towards him they may choose to ignore it. On a wider note it shows that whilst people should show a healthy scepticism to the press they should also be aware of politicians screaming 'fake news' when a story doesn't suit them. Trump was/is the master of it.
    I fell in love with football as I was later to fall in love with women,. Suddenly, uncritically giving no thought to the pain it could bring. - Nick Hornby

  5. #64
    Testimonial Due
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,866
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'm curious to see which of the print media run with Buzzfeeds 'fake news' story today and tomorrow. Corbyn asked, very clearly, if he'll continue as leader if Labour lose, Corbyn gives a clear positive answer, Buzzfeed run the story, Corbyn denies he said it and limits Buzzfeed access to his campaign, Buzzfeed, awkwardly for Corbyn, release the audio of the interview which plays out word for word how they printed it....

    It's a story the press would have been all over a week or 2 ago so if there is a softening towards him they may choose to ignore it. On a wider note it shows that whilst people should show a healthy scepticism to the press they should also be aware of politicians screaming 'fake news' when a story doesn't suit them. Trump was/is the master of it.
    Hadnt heard this one. From someone who actually tried to create fake news on the virgin train too.

    There is a fine line between spin and media manipulation, whihlch all parties do, and flat out making stuff up, which i think very few do.

    But you are right about the politicians using it as an accusation - I've even seen it used on these boards in such a way.

  6. #65
    Testimonial Due
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,866
    Quote Originally Posted by Holmesdale Hibs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Agree with this. Diane's Abbot knew what she was getting herself into and Nick Ferrari was right to grill her for it. What bothered me more was that all the mainstream media (BBC and Sky) focused on was the gaff and I can't remember anyone reporting what the policy was. Report the gaff by all means because it is newsworthy, but so's the policy.

    I find the media like to focus on the most decisive and negative points of any debate, which makes politicians defensive. Someone mentioned above about SNP being aggressive - I agree with this as well and the party would appeal a lot more if Sturgeon wasn't so angry all the time. I'm not saying we shouldn't ask difficult questions or have debates, just that they seem to have such a disrespectful and cynical tone these days they just make you annoyed listening to them and turn off. Maybe it's always been like this but it seems worse after the referendums.

    An aside to this, I just saw May and her husband being interviewed on The One Show and it was quite good to hear her giving her views without being interrupted. Thought they both came across quite well.
    I think we as a public are to blame also - we expect infallibility, which is ridiculous.

    As funny as abbott was, actually she did have mostly the rigt figures, she obviously just muddled them all up.

    In a more mature environment, she would have been able to laugh, apologise and say she had muddled them up then go and correct herself.

    Instead she got defensive and tried to pretend she hadnt muddled it up. I actually thought Ferrari went quite easy on her considering.

    The obvious consequence of this is ultra-robotic politicians like May, or what are in effect actors, like Blair and Cameron, who switxh on the charm in front of the cameras.

  7. #66
    @hibs.net private member snooky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Down East
    Posts
    9,592
    A friend of mine said he couldn't believe anyone would vote for SNP with all that is written about them in the press.
    There lies his problem. i.e. Using only one source for information.
    This applies to any story or report covered in the media.
    FWIW, I don't think there ever was a family in Glebe St called the Broons.

  8. #67
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    454
    Quote Originally Posted by snooky View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    A friend of mine said he couldn't believe anyone would vote for SNP with all that is written about them in the press.
    There lies his problem. i.e. Using only one source for information.
    This applies to any story or report covered in the media.
    FWIW, I don't think there ever was a family in Glebe St called the Broons.
    What lies have been told about the SNP in the press?

  9. #68
    @hibs.net private member Just Alf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The 'Mains
    Posts
    2,703
    Quote Originally Posted by HomeTeam View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What lies have been told about the SNP in the press?
    He's meaning negative press, didn't say anyone was lying?

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
    "The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
    --Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback & sports analyst.

  10. #69
    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Chippenham/Bath
    Age
    36
    Posts
    4,188
    Cast your net wide folks. Hear a story, look for sources, video. Go on social media.

    I cross reference everything with twitter. Obviously that brings a lot of noise, but you can cut through things.

    Watch Russia Today, Al Jazeria. Don't rely on one viewpoint. Read the Telegraph, but then read the New Statesman.

    Look for the angle, always ask "who benefits from this"? Understand who owns what media outlet. Who do they find?

    It's been a slow process from me that started post Iraq in 2004ish. My eyes were firmly opened in 2014 Independence referendum. Brexit and Trump confirmed that we are spoon fed information. The masses are unable to think critically for themselves. As consequence we get sound bite governments and decisions made on gut feelings. And sure as eggs are eggs, the powerful people in society set the agenda to suit themselves.

    J
    Last edited by Bristolhibby; 10-05-2017 at 11:59 AM.

  11. #70
    @hibs.net private member AndyM_1875's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    The People's Republic of Fife
    Posts
    2,454
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthsideHarp_Bhoy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Your first point, yeah i was thinking that as i wrote it, but im not sure. On certain issues, they are to the right sure (migration, possibly benefits) but then on other issues May seems to be very muxh in the centre. No pledge not to raise taxes (after an abortive attempt to do that already), interfering in a market with a price cap - real one nation tory policies.

    I dont think May is all that ideological, so far to me it seems like she defies easy classification and is instead a bit of a mixed bag - maybe even with a hint of populism.

    Shes certainly not hard right, either in the libertarian sense or in the neo-facist sense.

    I would also say ahe seems the least neo-liberal leader we have had in a long time. Her industrial strategy approach is very 'mixed economy'.
    You're definition of hard right and mine differ. Hard right to me isn't neo fascist, although it's not a far distance to travel, but it echoes the sort of blood & soil claptrap that the likes of Tebbit came out with 30 years ago and that Farage has been peddling for the last decade.

    I agree with you that May is not ideological but I don't think May is a one nation Tory either.
    As a political type they are dying out. The likes of Heseltine or Ken Clarke are the last of that particular breed. Heseltine would never have put the interests of his Party over the country whereas May and her cohorts have done precisely that. They will do anything to stay in power, whatever it costs. She may not believe she is hard right but she leads a party that has swallowed up UKIP vote and whether she likes it or not the Tories have lurched dramatically to the right. You could never imagine a one nation Tory making the sort of excruciating speech that Amber Rudd came out with at the Tory Conference. Nor would a one nation Tory have welcomed some of the jokers who won council seats for the Tories in Scotland.

    With the useless Corbyn as her opponent the centre ground of UK politics is occupied only by the SNP in Scotland (the Lib Dems are useless) and empty of a big beast but as Monsieur Macron has shown it is still possible to win with a centrist progressive agenda, something that the camps of May and Corbyn both lack.

  12. #71
    First Team Breakthrough
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    454
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Alf View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He's meaning negative press, didn't say anyone was lying?

    Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
    Oh right, well in that case is friend is quite right. If the negative press is truthful then the SNP have only themselves to blame for example the education headlines today, SNP 10 years in power and standards continue to fall.

    Unless the suggestion is to bury any negative stories related to the SNP.

  13. #72
    Testimonial Due
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Edinburgh
    Age
    36
    Posts
    2,866
    Quote Originally Posted by AndyM_1875 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    You're definition of hard right and mine differ. Hard right to me isn't neo fascist, although it's not a far distance to travel, but it echoes the sort of blood & soil claptrap that the likes of Tebbit came out with 30 years ago and that Farage has been peddling for the last decade.

    I agree with you that May is not ideological but I don't think May is a one nation Tory either.
    As a political type they are dying out. The likes of Heseltine or Ken Clarke are the last of that particular breed. Heseltine would never have put the interests of his Party over the country whereas May and her cohorts have done precisely that. They will do anything to stay in power, whatever it costs. She may not believe she is hard right but she leads a party that has swallowed up UKIP vote and whether she likes it or not the Tories have lurched dramatically to the right. You could never imagine a one nation Tory making the sort of excruciating speech that Amber Rudd came out with at the Tory Conference. Nor would a one nation Tory have welcomed some of the jokers who won council seats for the Tories in Scotland.

    With the useless Corbyn as her opponent the centre ground of UK politics is occupied only by the SNP in Scotland (the Lib Dems are useless) and empty of a big beast but as Monsieur Macron has shown it is still possible to win with a centrist progressive agenda, something that the camps of May and Corbyn both lack.
    Ok, i agree we have different definitions.

    Im not going to start defending May, i dont know quite what to make of her yet. And i agree that the centre ground of the UK has moved right since the 70s - i just think hard right is a very loaded term that is not helpful. A bit like calling corbyn a communist.

    Ive been thinking about your post though, and to me, as someone who is not a natural left voter but is persuadable, what you highlighted about atlee is really the crux of my disappointment with the modern left.

    Atlee and his pals had genuine vision, and brought in radical policies that fundamentally changed the shape of the UK for thr better.

    Where is that sort of leadership now? Where is that visiob, adjusted for the 21st century?

    Atlee's plans were tge right plans at the right time - a nation that had just endured 6 years of pverty fpr the war effort, a large working class, with little property ownership and poor record on infectious disease and few social safety nets.

    To me it seems that the left has not managed to adjust to our changed circumstamces as a society. Benefits were supposed to be temporary, the NHS was a system that was desigbed to cure illness, council housing worked, at least to an extent and poverty as it was understood on those days has been eradicated.

    But other than housing, those issues dont exist or have evolved into separate issues. Benefits as a lifestyle, nhs being asked to care for chronic disease for decades per patient, relative poverty is not the same as absolute poverty and economies and economic systems are completely different. To me it seems that the left (or hard left, depending on your preference) have few ideas other than tax rises.

    To appeal again, the left needs practical, non-punative ideas that help solve those problems, and stop fighting the battles of forty years ago, imo.

    Blair got close, but was not radical enough in his first two terms imo.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2012 All Rights Reserved