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  1. #121
    @hibs.net private member silverhibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoopyboy View Post
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    Me too.

    I think Ryan Porteous will step up to first team squad as opposed to Brian McLean

    Hibs should try and get Porteous back out on loan in the league we have just left, don't think he is quite ready for the 1st team squad yet Scoops, see how he does in the Championship for the 1st half of the season and if he copes with that then bring him in to the squad in January.


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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    I sometimes wonder how many on here have actually attended Hibs games this year?

    I don't think Gray has had a particularly good season and i find myself and others around me at games repeatedly frustrated by Gray.

    IMHO if we can sign a stronger RB for next year then we should be doing so, none of this nostalgia loyalty that seems to floating about!

    So he scored the winning goal in the Scottish Cup final, what has he done this year that means he deserves to be first choice RB?

    I read on another thread that we shouldn't be offering new contract to players who had one great game last year (I think it was in reference to Fyvie), so why should David Gray be any different.

    As captain I have hardly seen him rally the troops when we have been losing or drawing this year and thats what i would expect from a captain (on and off the pitch).

    I have seen him more often hide away when he is playing poorly.
    Up until around February, we'd conceded something like 10 goals this season.....

    This year, defending hasn't been an issue so not sure where many faults can be found in our performances from that perspective

  4. #123
    Look I love David Gray as much as anyone and in his first season he head brilliant.

    But it I feel in every season he is slowly getting as consistent and more prone to injuries and mistakes

    Since 2012 whittikar has been playing and training consistent with Norwich in the prem and champ as well as Scotland.

    with all due respect to Gray SW is better

    although I would prefer Cammy Kerr from Dundee
    Last edited by Unseen work; 02-05-2017 at 02:56 PM. Reason: .

  5. #124
    @hibs.net private member J-C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    I sometimes wonder how many on here have actually attended Hibs games this year?

    I don't think Gray has had a particularly good season and i find myself and others around me at games repeatedly frustrated by Gray.

    IMHO if we can sign a stronger RB for next year then we should be doing so, none of this nostalgia loyalty that seems to floating about!

    So he scored the winning goal in the Scottish Cup final, what has he done this year that means he deserves to be first choice RB?

    I read on another thread that we shouldn't be offering new contract to players who had one great game last year (I think it was in reference to Fyvie), so why should David Gray be any different.

    As captain I have hardly seen him rally the troops when we have been losing or drawing this year and thats what i would expect from a captain (on and off the pitch).

    I have seen him more often hide away when he is playing poorly.

    This

    Take away that goal and Gray is just a decent full back, he should not be our captain, McGregor is the man for me. He has been here 3 years, it's not like he's like Stevenson or Hanlon who have given many years to the club, he's a nice humble bloke to talk to but if there is a chance to strengthen a position, we must look at it.
    Whittaker has been playing at a higher level than Hibs for a few years now and has multiple international caps, yes he's 32 but a good solid pro, jeez everyone has been going on about how good Holt was last week and he's 35 now and most folk are wanting him to sign for another year.

  6. #125
    @hibs.net private member JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    I sometimes wonder how many on here have actually attended Hibs games this year?

    I don't think Gray has had a particularly good season and i find myself and others around me at games repeatedly frustrated by Gray.

    IMHO if we can sign a stronger RB for next year then we should be doing so, none of this nostalgia loyalty that seems to floating about!

    So he scored the winning goal in the Scottish Cup final, what has he done this year that means he deserves to be first choice RB?

    I read on another thread that we shouldn't be offering new contract to players who had one great game last year (I think it was in reference to Fyvie), so why should David Gray be any different.

    As captain I have hardly seen him rally the troops when we have been losing or drawing this year and thats what i would expect from a captain (on and off the pitch).

    I have seen him more often hide away when he is playing poorly.
    Thats clearly nonsense. He hasnt had his best season however has still been a decent performer in a defence which has let in very few goals. He commonly leads by example and as for hiding away that is a crock. Not to say we shouldnt be looking for better if we are able to do so and no idea how close or not he would be to accepting an offer from Hibs maybe he already is able to get better elsewhere and he will be leaving. Though in Whittaker we are getting a totally different player.

  7. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    I sometimes wonder how many on here have actually attended Hibs games this year?

    I don't think Gray has had a particularly good season and i find myself and others around me at games repeatedly frustrated by Gray.

    IMHO if we can sign a stronger RB for next year then we should be doing so, none of this nostalgia loyalty that seems to floating about!

    So he scored the winning goal in the Scottish Cup final, what has he done this year that means he deserves to be first choice RB?

    I read on another thread that we shouldn't be offering new contract to players who had one great game last year (I think it was in reference to Fyvie), so why should David Gray be any different.

    As captain I have hardly seen him rally the troops when we have been losing or drawing this year and thats what i would expect from a captain (on and off the pitch).

    I have seen him more often hide away when he is playing poorly.
    To say that DG hides is nonsense. He may not be the best but he always gives his all

  8. #127
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    Like i stated at the start of my first post here.... I wonder how many actually watch the games.

    Gray has had a reasonable season in defence, but his passing has been quite poor IMO and when he gets in to the final third he does the same thing time after time, either going to the byline and failing to get a decent cross in or trying a cross from the edge of the box and hitting the first defender.

    On top of this I notice a hell of a lot when the play is going against us he never makes an angle for the CBs to play the ball to him or for the CMs to play anything to him, this is what i mean by hiding.

    Don't get me wrong, when he is playing well he has great games but I just haven't seen many this year.

    I would be interested to review every goal we have conceded this year to see how they were scored, I m not saying that many were fault of his but I am saying that the defence as a whole has had a great season, won us the league IMO, but I think Gray benefits form being part of the strong defence and not 'leading' by example.
    Last edited by BlackSheep; 02-05-2017 at 03:22 PM.

  9. #128
    I'll take both.going to need a lot more depth to squad for the season coming up more and bigger league games plus an early start with the league cup.

    Also neither gray nor whittaker are perfect because if they were they would be nowhere near easter road.

  10. #129
    @hibs.net private member scoopyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverhibee View Post
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    Hibs should try and get Porteous back out on loan in the league we have just left, don't think he is quite ready for the 1st team squad yet Scoops, see how he does in the Championship for the 1st half of the season and if he copes with that then bring him in to the squad in January.
    Fair enough Silv, I haven't seen him since August and am happy to go with your judgement as you've seen him playing recently.

    I feel that if we are spending time and money on a youth system we have to give the better ones a chance at some point or there is no point in having the set up.

    Most people I have spoken to reckon he is going to be special.

  11. #130
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    Here goes my 10pence on this.

    I think ( if we are interested in SW ) that he will bring different options to the playing field. How much help will he bring to the development of Hanlon and to Darren. I personally think SDG's best 2 games in our strip was the final and Bronby away. Totally outstanding both games captain's material 100%. However certain games he seems to be lacking that determination will and desire he had in those 2 games.

    So my question would be. Does Lennon see a better option in SW than Sir David?

    GGTTH

  12. #131
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southern hibby View Post
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    Here goes my 10pence on this.

    I think ( if we are interested in SW ) that he will bring different options to the playing field. How much help will he bring to the development of Hanlon and to Darren. I personally think SDG's best 2 games in our strip was the final and Bronby away. Totally outstanding both games captain's material 100%. However certain games he seems to be lacking that determination will and desire he had in those 2 games.

    So my question would be. Does Lennon see a better option in SW than Sir David?

    GGTTH
    Hanlon at 27 and 300 + games and McGregor at 31 are unlikely to be doing too much developing by playing with a guy with a similar number of games under his belt at this stage of their careers.

  13. #132
    @hibs.net private member Lancs Harp's Avatar
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    Steven Whittaker is a decent player but lets not too carried away. He''s not been that regular in the Norwich team in his time there, he's played 80 league games in 5 seasons and played 17 league and cup games this season, hes 32 and obviously doesnt fit into any Norwich plan going forward. At this point in his career I honestly dont think he offers more than David Gray (granted they are obviously different types of fullback/wingback).

  14. #133
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    Anyone seen Whittaker play recently?

  15. #134
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    Like i stated at the start of my first post here.... I wonder how many actually watch the games.

    Gray has had a reasonable season in defence, but his passing has been quite poor IMO and when he gets in to the final third he does the same thing time after time, either going to the byline and failing to get a decent cross in or trying a cross from the edge of the box and hitting the first defender.

    On top of this I notice a hell of a lot when the play is going against us he never makes an angle for the CBs to play the ball to him or for the CMs to play anything to him, this is what i mean by hiding.

    Don't get me wrong, when he is playing well he has great games but I just haven't seen many this year.

    I would be interested to review every goal we have conceded this year to see how they were scored, I m not saying that many were fault of his but I am saying that the defence as a whole has had a great season, won us the league IMO, but I think Gray benefits form being part of the strong defence and not 'leading' by example.
    How ironic. Against Aberdeen in the semi, Gray played and tacked like a man posessed. He won every 50-50 challenge and a fair few when he wasn't favourite to get to the ball. Fair enough to say that he isn't the most creative. That's not usually the job of a full back, his priority is to defend and maybe if we played with an effective wide right player his attacking limitations would matter less. Once we are playing at a better standard the importance of a decent defender will oerhaps be more apparent.

  16. #135
    @hibs.net private member sleeping giant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren McGregor View Post
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    Anyone seen Whittaker play recently?
    Hope so as a few are ready to dump our Cup Winning captain for him.
    No Eternal Reward Shall Forgive Us Now For Wasting The Dawn

  17. #136
    Coaching Staff HoboHarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleeping giant View Post
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    Hope so as a few are ready to dump our Cup Winning captain for him.
    Only those who can't see the woods for the trees. I already said it earlier, but it appears that NL has offered David Gray a contract IN ADDITION to chasing Whittaker.......

  18. #137
    Private Member Vault Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darren McGregor View Post
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    Anyone seen Whittaker play recently?
    Aye, but I think I've said enough.

  19. #138
    @hibs.net private member Scouse Hibee's Avatar
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    It seems that the blind loyalty and nostalgia being bandied about in relation to SDG could also be the same nostalgia that has endeared so many folk to Whittaker, despite most not seeing him play in years.

  20. #139
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scouse Hibee View Post
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    It seems that the blind loyalty and nostalgia being bandied about in relation to SDG could also be the same nostalgia that has endeared so many folk to Whittaker, despite most not seeing him play in years.
    Totally agree.

    IF he stays then SDG starts as first choice RB and it's up to Whittaker to take the position off him.

    If SDG expects never to have competition for his place then that's just not realistic.

  21. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancs Harp View Post
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    Steven Whittaker is a decent player but lets not too carried away. He''s not been that regular in the Norwich team in his time there, he's played 80 league games in 5 seasons and played 17 league and cup games this season, hes 32 and obviously doesnt fit into any Norwich plan going forward. At this point in his career I honestly dont think he offers more than David Gray (granted they are obviously different types of fullback/wingback).
    Just posted pretty much the same on SDG thread:

    Whittaker has played 12 league games this season in a piss poor Norwich team. He played 8 league games last season, in a Norwich team relegated. At 32, is he really a better option than Gray? He obviously hasn't been playing regularly and defending was never his strong point. If we are interested, I would hope he was coming as competition to Gray, not be an automatic pick. Gray deserves his chance in the Premier League. He was our first signing when relegated and has been part of the journey back, plus the cup last season. I know sentitment shouldn't matter if we can bring better in, I'm not too sure SW would be that much of an improvemet to be honest.

  22. #141
    @hibs.net private member Hiber-nation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Col_0762 View Post
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    Just posted pretty much the same on SDG thread:

    Whittaker has played 12 league games this season in a piss poor Norwich team. He played 8 league games last season, in a Norwich team relegated. At 32, is he really a better option than Gray? He obviously hasn't been playing regularly and defending was never his strong point. If we are interested, I would hope he was coming as competition to Gray, not be an automatic pick. Gray deserves his chance in the Premier League. He was our first signing when relegated and has been part of the journey back, plus the cup last season. I know sentitment shouldn't matter if we can bring better in, I'm not too sure SW would be that much of an improvemet to be honest.
    Hardly. Maybe underachieved but 8th in the Championship and beat Reading 7-1 the other week.

  23. #142
    Left by mutual consent! Col_0762's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiber-nation View Post
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    Hardly. Maybe underachieved but 8th in the Championship and beat Reading 7-1 the other week.
    They've won 3, lost 6 and drew 3 in his 12 league appearences. He couldn't get in the team when Neil was the manager at the start of the season, and they were piss poor then. The Reading result was one of those freak results that happens from time time, plus he never played in it. Not trying to knock him, just not convinced he would be that big an improvement on DG.

  24. #143
    Coaching Staff HoboHarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Col_0762 View Post
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    Just posted pretty much the same on SDG thread:

    Whittaker has played 12 league games this season in a piss poor Norwich team. He played 8 league games last season, in a Norwich team relegated. At 32, is he really a better option than Gray? He obviously hasn't been playing regularly and defending was never his strong point. If we are interested, I would hope he was coming as competition to Gray, not be an automatic pick. Gray deserves his chance in the Premier League. He was our first signing when relegated and has been part of the journey back, plus the cup last season. I know sentitment shouldn't matter if we can bring better in, I'm not too sure SW would be that much of an improvemet to be honest.
    They are 8th in the second tier of English football which is light years away from being piss poor. Making up daft statements to justify your point doesn't make them true......

  25. #144
    Left by mutual consent! Col_0762's Avatar
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    How am I making up daft statements? They've won three games in the last month or two which has popped them up a few places, but they're only another couple of bad results from dropping back down to the bottom half. They have been abysmal for the squad they had dropping back into that league, resulting in their manager being sacked. Hardly made up statements.

    Just realised they only have one game left lol but still been a poor season.

  26. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfuddyhibby View Post
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    How ironic. Against Aberdeen in the semi, Gray played and tacked like a man posessed. He won every 50-50 challenge and a fair few when he wasn't favourite to get to the ball. Fair enough to say that he isn't the most creative. That's not usually the job of a full back, his priority is to defend and maybe if we played with an effective wide right player his attacking limitations would matter less. Once we are playing at a better standard the importance of a decent defender will oerhaps be more apparent.
    Both of Hibs 'full backs' spend a substantial amount of time attacking, so to discount their attacking ability is short sighted.

    I do agree that's Gray had quite a good semi final performance but not brilliant when attacking again.

    You seem to forget that Lennon favours attacking wing backs and has had to change this tactic to suit playing against teams that park the bus, IMHO due to the substandard delivery from all of our wide players.

    I'm am merely stating that Grays position in the starting 11 should not be guaranteed by a few performances.

    When Ambrose played RB when Gray was injured I thought the team felt better going forward from the wings.

    New Full/Wing Backs on both flanks next season would be a breath of fresh air.

  27. #146
    Coaching Staff Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    For me, Steven Whittaker is a far better player than David Gray. I don't think it's even close.
    However, I don't think that replacing Gray is a high priority and I also think he has been an excellent captain. Team spirit has scarcely been higher than it has been since he was given the armband at the start of last season.
    I've no idea what SW's fitness is like just now and his age is a concern.
    In other words I'm sitting on the fence on this.



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  28. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfuddyhibby View Post
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    Hanlon at 27 and 300 + games and McGregor at 31 are unlikely to be doing too much developing by playing with a guy with a similar number of games under his belt at this stage of their careers.
    Well you could be right but I'm sure SW has learned a hell of a lot against top teams in England and at international level that he could be passing on to both players, but that's just my opinion.

    GGTTH

  29. #148
    @hibs.net private member Aldo's Avatar
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    Would or could SW be played as a DM or holding midfield player??

  30. #149
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    Both of Hibs 'full backs' spend a substantial amount of time attacking, so to discount their attacking ability is short sighted.

    I do agree that's Gray had quite a good semi final performance but not brilliant when attacking again.

    You seem to forget that Lennon favours attacking wing backs and has had to change this tactic to suit playing against teams that park the bus, IMHO due to the substandard delivery from all of our wide players.

    I'm am merely stating that Grays position in the starting 11 should not be guaranteed by a few performances.

    When Ambrose played RB when Gray was injured I thought the team felt better going forward from the wings.

    New Full/Wing Backs on both flanks next season would be a breath of fresh air.
    I would highlight that many SPL teams play one up front and are very defensive too.

    Whatever formation Lennon may have preferred with Celtic, I imagine it's not comparable with the reality of managing Hibs. Celtic would have the lion's share of the ball in nearly every game they play in the SPL. Being realistic , that's not going to apply at Hibs.

    Again, I would say that a full backs job is to defend. Hibs prediliction for playing 4 central midfielders has been a bit of a hinderance these past three seasons. The fact that Boyle has done so well dueing the past months may be in part attributed to the fact that he is so ably supported by the guy behind him, less defending to do and decent interplay between the two.

    I can see where you are coming from re: Ambrose. However, he is a bit of a cut above what we have in terms of being a defender with a lot of creativity in him. Him signing on would be a far bigger coup than Whittaker

  31. #150
    @hibs.net private member weecounty hibby's Avatar
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    What about we go ****ing mental and have both of them. Playing in the prem next season will be more demanding physically and mentally and we will be playing against better players. We will need a strong squad and not just a strong first eleven. Why do people think we are only allowed one in one out? And while we're at it let's get Efe signed up too

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